Older Duc pondering.

[Forest]

45deg is the best angle for a V twin - better utilization of space and more torque.

90 degree twins have perfect primary balance - which means smoother power with a higher rev ceiling.

[Voltaire]

Imagine how many bikes they could have sold if they had built a true F1 600TT replica in the early 80s when it won the first of 4 titles instead of waiting forever then flogging off a not even remotely close to original basterd thing.

I lived in sydney in the mis 80's and there were two ducati shops. I used to go on lots of bike rallys on my 900SD. Not much interest there at the time in bikes of 600cc, Pantahs were around but not really concidered to seriously by the SS types....in fact they used to poke fun at me for having a Darmah...or Drama as they refered to it. The only Ducati worth owning seemed to be a 900 ss or earlier.Not my opinion, just what I observed.
( Must have affected me as I don't even know what a F1 600TT is, and I have two Ducatis.....)

[pritch]

45deg is the best angle for a V twin - better utilization of space and more torque.

Then there'd be a shortage of space for the fuel injection and all the other electrickery bits and pieces that have to squeeze in there. Maybe Aprilia got it about right.

What angle to KTM use?

[Taz]

The ducati was ultimately more successful than suzuki's TLR and Honda's VTR. So they must have been doing something right.

[Crisis management]

What angle to KTM use?

75 degrees.....bloody crowded between the cylinders, I'm still looking for the 6mm allen key I dropped into the 990 2 weeks ago! The 75 degree twins also vibrate more than the 90 degree, I have to admit I loved the smooth power of the ducati.
Otherwise, it's all about tradition as others have said, the original design was based on good engineering principles, primary balance and the control of valve float at high revs (desmodromics) with the need to control the temperature of the rear cylinder, don't forget that a long wheelbase wasn't frowned on in the 70's, steering head angles were nearer 27 degress than 22 degrees then so there was plenty of space for a long motor.
Their persistance with these basic features is all about tradition, look at the effort they go to change valve angles and heads on the front cylinder in the 916/996 series motors in an effort to maintain clearance from the front wheel.

I would'nt buy an in line four Ducati.

[AllanB]

The ducati was ultimately more successful than suzuki's TLR and Honda's VTR. So they must have been doing something right.

Ah now to compare like this you would need to single out one similar sized Ducati and compare its sales with Suzukis & Hondas V-twins over the same period. I say this as it's unreasonable to compare all Ducatis range with a single Suzuki & Honda model out of a large range.
Plus the TL morphed into the SV.


I was thinking about this a bit after reading the post yesterday.

I kept comparing the Ducati engine layout with Porsche engine layout - that rear engined car really was daft for a sports model - at one stage they were even loading up the front end with a hell of a lot of weight (lead?) in a attempt to keep the front down.

Porsche stayed with the rear engine and eventually sorted out the handling to the point where it is widely regarding as one of the nicest handling sports cars about.

Ducati is the same. However I suspect the primary balance plays a big part too.

And yes I do remember them tilting the V angle back recently to give more clearance in the front end.

The KTM RC8 is 90 degree.
Apriia run 90 in their new 750 engine
Hinda has 52 degrees in the 700 Translapper

[Kickaha]

I used to go on lots of bike rallys on my 900SD. Not much interest there at the time in bikes of 600cc, Pantahs were around but not really concidered to seriously by the SS types....in fact they used to poke fun at me for having a Darmah...or Drama as they refered to it. The only Ducati worth owning seemed to be a 900 ss or earlier.

I had the use of a 600 Pantah at the same time as I owned a 900 Darmah, the Pantah on a windy road would run away from the Darmahs, I didn't ever get to run it against a 900SS but I think the result would be similar

Going from the Darmah to the Pantah was like getting out of a truck and into a sports car

[AllanB]

I wouldn't buy an in line four Ducati.

Yeah but just imagine what it would go like!!!!!!!!!


They will end up with V-4's.

[johan]

Yeah but just imagine what it would go like!!!!!!!!!


They will end up with V-4's.

I wish a derivative of the Desmosedici v-4 makes it down to their sports bike range.

[Crisis management]

The KTM RC8 is 90 degree.

Bloody hell Allan, get onto KTM fast, they still think it's a 75 degree twin!!!

[AllanB]

Bloody hell Allan, get onto KTM fast, they still think it's a 75 degree twin!!!

He he he - I grabbed that straight from a new magazine - I guess there will be a few 'letters to thje editor' this month!

[98tls]

The ducati was ultimately more successful than suzuki's TLR and Honda's VTR. So they must have been doing something right.

Yea yea well aware of that but what i was pondering was why when they no longer needed to have there engine at such an angle didnt they sit it up to reduce length and attend to the rear weight bias as it was seen,theres no wrong/right answer i guess am just interested to see what people thought.

[98tls]

I had the use of a 600 Pantah at the same time as I owned a 900 Darmah, the Pantah on a windy road would run away from the Darmahs, I didn't ever get to run it against a 900SS but I think the result would be similar

Going from the Darmah to the Pantah was like getting out of a truck and into a sports car

The Pantah could have been hugely succesful if Cagiva hadnt missed the boat and insisted on making 10,000 Alazzurras that ended up sitting in warehouses for years.Sweet bike and used to love reading of Ian Gowanlochs exploits with them.

[Forest]

Yeah but just imagine what it would go like!!!!!!!!!


They will end up with V-4's.

The history of Italian inline-four manufacturers is very spotty.

Just look Bimota and MV Agusta - both companies failed and are now on life-support.

[AllanB]

As I hooned a long late this afternoon on my IL4, I remembered a magazine article I have a home somewhere (relatively recent) with a short column quoting Ducatis engine designer saying they are working on the next generation engine as the present design has pretty much reached its limit (presumably in a road going form keeping it warrantable).