Chipseal vs Hotmix

[Bass]

Then there is the reality, flushed with adhesion.
The last time I rode hwy 4 - 20% of the surface was gone in long sections.

Ah...... true, but that is a whole different discussion.

[Big Dave]

Ah...... true, but that is a whole different discussion.

No it innit. It's the whole point! Were it hotmix it (surface) would still be there and would offer significantly better safety & grip.

The discussion says that a chip seal is theoretically better in the wet. I don't agree, because the reality is it is inconsistent and more prone to failure.

[The Stranger:Me]

Skid resistance is measured by spraying water on the road in front of a wheel that has a force applied to the point of skidding, the more force = more skid reistance.

So do you have any information which could be used to compare the various types. Would be interested to know what sort of variation we see.

[Bass]

No it innit. It's the whole point!

I disagree.
The original point was which surface is inherently better.
Now we are talking about which surface requires more maintenance.
If you want to go down that road then there are all sorts of other factors, like how slick hot mix gets with a little bit of rain after a long hot dry spell.

Having said that however, I too will take hot mix over BADLY MAINTAINED chip seal, wet or dry. Give me chip seal in good order though, and my wet riding is not much different from the dry.

[MSTRS:Me]

So do you have any information which could be used to compare the various types. Would be interested to know what sort of variation we see.

Any results would be meaningless where we are concerned...since it is unlikely that bikes are ever tested.

[Bass]

Any results would be meaningless where we are concerned...since it is unlikely that bikes are ever tested.

I disagree here too, mate.
Data is data and all we are talking about is a coefficient of friction test. It doesn't even have to include a vehicle at all. A bit of rubber, a weight and a spring balance will give potentially useful results.

[Big Dave]

I disagree.
The original point was which surface is inherently better.

Hotmix every time - refer previous posts.

[MSTRS:Me]

I disagree here too, mate.
Data is data and all we are talking about is a coefficient of friction test. It doesn't even have to include a vehicle at all. A bit of rubber, a weight and a spring balance will give potentially useful results.

Not necessarily. Not all rubbers are created equal. Just like road surfaces.
A guide, perhaps, but not an absolute.

[Bass]

Not necessarily. Not all rubbers are created equal. Just like road surfaces.
A guide, perhaps, but not an absolute.

Ah but it's not an absolute we want, it's a relative measurement. We are not asking "how good is it", we are asking, "which one is better" and for that, any old rubber will do.

[Bass]

Hotmix every time - refer previous posts.

Not so O large Australian, camera wielding, cycle testing, 6 string plucker, fucker.

The evidence says that chip seal IN GOOD ORDER, is better in the wet

refer previous posts

[Big Dave]

The evidence says that chip seal IN GOOD ORDER,

No - that would by a hypothesis as said condition has never been encountered.

Even brand new it is strewn with its own detritus and it begins to fail from there.

[MSTRS:Me]

The evidence says that chip seal IN GOOD ORDER, is better in the wet

No - that would by a hypothesis as said condition has never been encountered.
Even brand new it is strewn with its own detritus and it begins to fail from there.

The condition 'in good order' is such a brief one. In fact, on some roads it may be measured in days....

[Bass]

No - that would by a hypothesis as said condition has never been encountered.

Even brand new it is strewn with its own detritus and it begins to fail from there.

I suggest that you exaggerate, but it has to be said, that in NZ at least, there is more than a modicum of truth in what you say.

You (I think) mentioned earlier in this thread that the roads in OZ were predominately hot mix.
You may be aware that earlier this year, I did around 18,000 km in Oz and while most of it was "in the dirt" a fair chunk was also on the seal. I had read herein, on several occasions that the roads in Oz were better than here because higher grade materials were used and in particular, the bitumen was higher melting point. Consequently I took an interest.
My observations were:
1. The vast majority of the seal was chip seal. Hot mix only appeared on major arterial routes or around metropolitan areas.
2. There may be some truth to the rumours of higher grade materials because while it did occur, bitumen bleed was less prevalent than here and the daytime temperatures we encountered got into the low to mid 40's.
3. This was in the middle of winter and so the temperatures get a lot higher than we encountered.
4. We passed through Marble Bar which routinely records the highest summer temp's of any Oz town. The roads were all chip seal and in good to very good order

So Dave, while I take your point that (and as others have also said) reliability of grip is part of the overall question, it seems that it can be done with chip seal because I have seen it so and for many, many kilometers.

The condition 'in good order' is such a brief one. In fact, on some roads it may be measured in days....

John,
Sadly, as above there is some truth in what you say.

[Big Dave]

I still like hotmix better than perfick order chip seal in the wet. nothing will change that opine.

Aus depends on the state, shlre, geology and logistics. Most place I lived were hotmixed - as in the shizzle comes out of the truck all mixed up - rather than the stuff dumped on top.

[sunhuntin]

An intersting observation up thisa way John is, most of the stone chip road resealing does not last that long, maybe a year before it starts to flake away. They closed the brynderwyns a couple of weeks back for a day to reseal in Hotmix...went over them last weekend and all they have done is patch here and there, same with the Mangawhai road, surely it would more cost effective to get right the first time, or is it that, if they get it right there wont anything for them to do in a few years? Keeps them employed I guess.

the local roadies recently resealed a corner that was badly pot holed. its not much used by cars, but a LOT of stock feed trucks use that corner at all hours of the day. im picking about 20 trucks a day, maybe more? so 20 sets of tyres, all hitting the same line daily. that reseal lasted about 2 days, and now its twice as bad as before. im actually avoiding that road when im on the bike, its that badly damaged. and there seems to be no sign of proper repair. they used hotmix over chip seal, which may have had something to do with it, as they didnt remove the old road first.