True Production Racing series

[Mishy]

Suck me big boy

you cagy old bugger ! I'll weasel the info out of you one day ! ha ha !

I only push because i'm interested

[Mishy]

Dunno where you get that idea from as it's the complete opposite of the message I was trying to convey? I mentioned that I'm one of these racers on a limited budget in it for the fun. My point was that the current rules mean that racing competitively in F3 is not longer low budget (power commander, ohlins, gsxr front end, different cams, etc) and there are very few competitive bikes (bored out 400, moddied Sv650, weird 3 cyl 600 or the odd single). I did mention changing the F3 rules to bring in more modern and more relevant bikes (F800's, GSR600's, FZ6's, whatever..GSX750's even) and having limitations to keep the racing competitive and interesting. If guys like me on $hite old 20 year old 400's get booted out of F3 cos the rules change and we no longer have a chance of qualifying then thats probably no bad thing (there's always post classics). I'd rather shell out on a cheap used bandit 600 or FZ6 or summit than sink money into a 20 year old bike. Besides...I don't like SV650's :-)

For "budget limiting", I also mentioned formula 400 and/or a rolling "10 year old bikes and over" class. Even the pre89 junior is getting stupid (ohlins shod FZR 6/4 anyone?).

I also don't see the point of allowing clubmans racers to run full wets.

Cool, I was in two minds with the reference to the lack of people competing at the top, and just riding for fun. I see where your frustraion comes from with the changes in F3 machinery, and some of the cost's involved with "keeping up with the Jones's". Maybe those who have a mind too could lobby MNZ for some sort of rule change to include the bikes you mentioned ? I like F3, but have no involvement at present, so It's only a point of interest to me. If you don't like it the way it is, get busy changing it !
And as for Post Classic, well that can be as big a money pit as anything out there. Seems odd to me, but people seem to enjoy the experience . . . . .

[Mishy]

Possibly because it is not commercially viable for aftermarket parts suppliers.
You can be fairly confident that some of the current classes exist because of pressure & lobbying from that quater.
You only need to look earlier in this thread to witness the level of evangalisim from the aftermarket supplier set.

I think if you looked real hard you would see that the major bike distributors have more influence than any of the aftermarket suppliers. All of the big ones are heavily involved in racing at present (and we'd be SERIOUSLY screwd if they weren't) and their influence on rules and regs will be far greater that the Dunlop importer, or the Ohlins importer, or the Conti importer.Those involved with company's that have a heavy involvment with racing at present all seem to express their views passionately, and this is often misunderstood as self interest. Scratch the surface on you will find that there are a lot of people in these businesses that put a heap of time and effort in mostly because they just LOVE being involved. And without them we'd all be worse off. think about the input Pirelli have had over the years, what Conti did for their guys last year, or what Robert and Dennis put in. None of these guys are getting rich of the back of it ( trust me !) they just do it because they are passionate.

[Mishy]

o.k, so how many of you that advocate a stock 600 class would go out and buy a brand new 600 to do a season at national level on one ? $16000 (ish) buy in, plus fairings, wheels, spares, and a bunch of other stuff. How many would actually do that ?
fair question, no ?

[cowpoos]

o.k, so how many of you that advocate a stock 600 class would go out and buy a brand new 600 to do a season at national level on one ? $16000 (ish) buy in, plus fairings, wheels, spares, and a bunch of other stuff. How many would actually do that ?
fair question, no ?

I say no one...and if they did...they would find out that it may not be the fancy parts they whinge about not having/knowing how to setup..and they are just an average rider!!

and they probally already know it...so they won't put there money were there mouth is!!

[k14]

o.k, so how many of you that advocate a stock 600 class would go out and buy a brand new 600 to do a season at national level on one ? $16000 (ish) buy in, plus fairings, wheels, spares, and a bunch of other stuff. How many would actually do that ?
fair question, no ?

Exactly what I've been thinking. There are all these sideline critics talking on here but I bet none of them would front up if the class actually came to fruition.

Then you've got the point of where do you make the cut? As already said, do you allow aftermarket end cans (to cut costs, what's an oem worth). Then aftermarket pegs, bars, rearsets for the same reason. Braided front line for "safety". Then all of a sudden the only difference between these bikes are power commander and suspension. Is it worth it?

[Shaun]

Wash yer mouth Harris...you didn't tell me you were a fag ha ha!!!!

last time I saw you touch ya toes I was in dude, you may not have notuced as I am quite small compared to your ARSE haha Hi John

[Shaun]

Have you never been asked at a prizegiving when hes had a bit of piss, to help him back onto his seat - or put plainly, to push his stool in for him..............

The Aussie side car boys, just passed me around above there heads in Napier a few moons back

[Billy]

I say no one...and if they did...they would find out that it may not be the fancy parts they whinge about not having/knowing how to setup..and they are just an average rider!!

and they probally already know it...so they won't put there money were there mouth is!!

Sadly I would say youre dead right.Theres probably only 2 people that Ive seen post on here that are likely to rush out and set themselves up for a full National championship (Vtec and Sketchy racer).But thats all irelevant anyway cause I dont see where this new Production class would fit in,It couldnt be run in conjunction with 600sp as the fast guys in that class would eliminate most of the proddy feild in qualifying and short of dropping another class theres nowhere else for it too go.The only other place to kick it off would be club level and it appears obvious too me the club scene (in the north island atleast)has its hands full already with the classes they are running now.Thats not too say the idea doesnt have merit,Production racing of old produced some of the best racing and racers this country has seen and clearly the riders learnt better racecraft then than they do under the current format(125gp and streetstock south island style aside) and it produced bigger sales of roadbikes.

[sidecar bob]

Exactly what I've been thinking. There are all these sideline critics talking on here but I bet none of them would front up if the class actually came to fruition.

I would be but im already comitted with two classes & three machines.
If you dumb bastards could figure out that a proper racebike needs three wheels then id be in.

Seriously though, juniour proddy was pretty big back in the day, so i dont know what you base that assumption on.

[scracha]

Seriously though, juniour proddy was pretty big back in the day, so i dont know what you base that assumption on.

Seconded. I'd hazard a guess that the sort of guys (and gals) who leapt out and bought the proddy bikes would also be the sort of people who would still qualify if it were run alongside F2.

[sidecar bob]

I think if you looked real hard you would see that the major bike distributors have more influence than any of the aftermarket suppliers. All of the big ones are heavily involved in racing at present (and we'd be SERIOUSLY screwd if they weren't) and their influence on rules and regs will be far greater that the Dunlop importer, or the Ohlins importer, or the Conti importer.Those involved with company's that have a heavy involvment with racing at present all seem to express their views passionately, and this is often misunderstood as self interest. Scratch the surface on you will find that there are a lot of people in these businesses that put a heap of time and effort in mostly because they just LOVE being involved. And without them we'd all be worse off. think about the input Pirelli have had over the years, what Conti did for their guys last year, or what Robert and Dennis put in. None of these guys are getting rich of the back of it ( trust me !) they just do it because they are passionate.

Regardless of wether the machine is run standard or has $35,000 worth of fine goodies bolted on, a base machine is required to start with, so the importers have the market cornered in either case.
That leaves the ball squarely in the aftermarket court to lobby for modified machines.

[scrivy]

The Aussie side car boys, just passed me around above there heads in Napier a few moons back

You mean they were blowing their fags into the air??

[Crasherfromwayback]

o.k, so how many of you that advocate a stock 600 class would go out and buy a brand new 600 to do a season at national level on one ? $16000 (ish) buy in, plus fairings, wheels, spares, and a bunch of other stuff. How many would actually do that ?
fair question, no ?

Now I'm with you there! And that is, and always has been my point.

Who gives a fuck what you're racing if you're (as a racer) simply trying to prove your abilities on the cheap?

So why use a 16k 600 race rep?

What about a GS500 ($7750.00) Suzuki or similar bike from any of the big brands?

I know they're not a 'race bike'...but neither are 883 Sportsters. I had more fun racing an 883 than anything else I've raced.

If the end result is good enough (help with a ride in a 'true' racing class)...that should attract people.

1 set of tyres per round...no modifications other than jetting, gearing and fucking with stock suspension (so the riders do get to try and learn what works and what doesn't).

Repeating myself I know...but James Toseland and GB500 cup?

[Mishy]

Now I'm with you there! And that is, and always has been my point.

Who gives a fuck what you're racing if you're (as a racer) simply trying to prove your abilities on the cheap?

So why use a 16k 600 race rep?

What about a GS500 ($7750.00) Suzuki or similar bike from any of the big brands?

Yup, and this is exactly why I can't see any point in pushing for big changes to 600SP any time soon. The only guys who will buy a new one seem to be the exact same guys that are racing right at the front (with a few exceptions). So, who's showing the courage of their convictions and manning up with money for Shaun's bikes ? It makes a lot more sense as a busget class than pulling back the rules on the 600SP class.Shaun's got big balls doing what he's doing (respect), and based on the comment here there should be loads of people flooding his way to get involved.