90-day stand down

[Murray]

more to the point, under this new legislation can you fire them within 90 days for incompetence??

I think we have more than 20 employees in parliament so the answer is no

[RantyDave]

Who hired the shocking buggers?

I've done this, hired a shocker. Good CV, good previous placement, good references, interviewed well ... well paid, good environment, clearly defined tasks ... couldn't do his fucking job. Haven't hired anyone since, just not worth the risk and I'm happy to beaver along on my own. For now.

Hiring software engineers is extremely hard and very hit and miss. Having three months to test the little buggers out means I now feel inclined, once again, towards actually giving someone a shot. It also means it's easier to take a punt on a recent graduate. Y'know, giving someone hard working and keen a leg up. Remember that?

All the people bitching about this are terrified because they know they don't stack up. Worried about it? So negotiate. "I don't want to move my family until we're past the 90 day trial so I want you to pay for me to fly up, stay in a motel, whatever".

Dave

[mstriumph]

Who hired the shocking buggers?

*you must spread some reputation around before ...............*

[RantyDave]

I've also heard a lot of hard luck stories from stupid employers who don't have the nouse to follow a process to rid themselves of an employee.

Right. Now theses processes include offering to retrain for a position of similar importance, money etc. So I'm supposed to take a $100k but hopeless software engineer and retrain them to be a $100k but hopeless sysadmin?

Dave

[RantyDave]

Women who fall pregnant in the first 90 days of a job are fucked.

Ahh, jesus I'm going to be here all day.

You don't "fall" pregnant. Either that or I "fall" hungover from time to time.

[mstriumph]

..........
All the people bitching about this are terrified because they know they don't stack up. ........

'all' ???
you have much to learn, grasshopper!

[RantyDave]

My current employer is effectively demanding a 50 hour working week of its employees and there's nothing I can do about it.

Other than go work somewhere else you mean?

[Murray]

i can't help but notice, though, that it's some of the OTHERS that are using personal abuse and derogoratory comment [a bit like yourself here]rather than straight counter-arguement

'all' ???
you have much to learn, grasshopper!

Sorry missed the counterarguement bit here???? and is calling someone grasshopper derogatory or personal abuse!!!! or neither????

[mstriumph]

Sorry missed the counterarguement bit here???? and is calling someone grasshopper derogatory or personal abuse!!!! or neither????

no problem --- there WASN'T actually any counter-arguement in the post i responded to ..... that was my point, actually

'grasshopper', in the given context and used by moi, is a term of endearment

[the reference was from the old TV series 'Kung Fu' with the actor David Carradine]

[RantyDave]

From my perspective, large NZ corporates will milk this for all it's worth.

Large NZ corporates don't get even a snifter of it - the law only applies to companies with less than 20 employees. But don't let facts get in the way of a good witch burning.

Dave

[Brian d marge]

in many cases it's just a bandaid for sloppy hiring procedures to cover the backs of inept managers who should, themselves, be let go...

Snip

Try working over here , ,,,Jobs for life ,,! yeeehaa and you will get put in a basement counting paper clips until you decide to leave !

Responsibility , now theres a word

A worker has the Responsibility to perform the tasks given to the best of their ability.

The Employer has the Responsibility to the tools and an environment in which to carry out those tasks.

If either one of those isnt being met.... then one of the parties is at fault.

Simple

90 % of the people I have met are good honest people , who if treated in a supportive way, give back what they received.

A few are truly distructive ,to the work place ...( and maybe incapable of a simple task. Sandshoes and tree planting is the best for them ,,,)

MOST Managers I have met are truly awful, Failing to either set out clear guidelines, expectations and a lot of the time with out the relevant skill set being given to the worker. Finally the consequenses of not meeting those expectations ( they are never said , just posted on the wall or written in the contract, just above the small print.)

On the other end of the scale I wonder how businesses manage to stay afloat ! once you start factoring in Wages ,,, the final cost goes throught the roof !

As a worker , my current part time job, treats me well, as long as I dont stuff up ( no body dies , or the police turn up ) and customer goes away happy ! then all is well............. So if they ask me to work chistmas day , fine no probs there...Saturdays and sundays , have always worked them , Overtime , whats that ,, Bonuses , nope Sick pay ,,,only ever had one day when I couldnt go in ,,, I mean it was physically impossible .;.. not even if i was strapped to a pallet truck !

Reason , my employer treat me well, So I have his back ! ( covered his backside , thats my responsibility !)


Now I have my wee business in the mornings, ..Try ... I dont work , it dont happen , Period ( and it isnt happening cause I am on KB ... when I should be working ! ,,, Just like the rest of you !)

Back on topic , a while back they did something , a lot of the jobs became part time , the employment figures looked good but people had two or three part time Jobs to make ends meet ,,,,Same WILL happen with this law , it has its merits BUT the cowboyz are out there !!! and there will be some truly sad cases !

WHY THE F$%%'(% are we following the American model of Economics , its FLAWED and sqewed ( sp) towards a few HAVES ,,,, and you and me and even the business man who pretends he is rich .. are just Minions beholdent to the Bank. Try spending on pubic works with long term ROI, instead of borrowing from the investment pool ( at how much interest ??? our overseas debt would almost dissapear over night ) !

Oh look suddenly Keynsian economics ,,,is back in fashion , The philosopher should gaze upon the hungry child before playing with ideas.. The idiots.

Stephen

[slowpoke]

I dunno, the hairs are standing up on the back of my neck after seeing this legislation. This is scary shit.

To all those employers saying "Yaaaay, look at my flexibility!", this is going to stop the exodus of workers to Australia and parts further afield how exactly? Newsflash #1, good workers are leaving NZ because conditions are declining. Newsflash #2, this is not improving working conditions.

Employers in NZ seem to consistently forget one of lifes basic tenets: you get what you pay for. You pay incredibly shit wages, with lousy annual leave and working conditions and you still moan when you can't compete against neighbours like Australia who pay workers 30% more. How much more stacked in your favour do you want this deck? Lift your own bloody game, 'cos with the cheap labour advantage you've got the only "productivity problem" is staring back at you in the mirror.

I live in NZ but work in Oz and every now and then (read: all the time) I get the shits with the travel and contemplate working closer to home. Those thoughts have well and truly left my head now. I can control my own performance and have no doubt I can prove myself....but I can't control my boss's performance (I've worked for a few "wooden frying pan's" in my time) or my new companies performance, so who's to say they aren't going to fuck up and I'll no longer be "convenient". As per motorcycling, why take a risk (even if it's a small one) if you don't have to?

To all those who think this legislation is a good thing: why stop at 90 days? Why put a time limit on it? Why not make it "fire at will" indefinitely? If this is good legislation that surely that would be better legislation? (tui ad)

[James Deuce]

Large NZ corporates don't get even a snifter of it - the law only applies to companies with less than 20 employees. But don't let facts get in the way of a good witch burning.

Dave

There's already talk about splitting this place into separate business entities. You tell me if it's a witch hunt.

[Maki]

The 90 day rule is good, because it will make employers more willing to hire people. If everything works out the last thing the employer would want to do is sack the person after 90 days, good people are hard to find.

If you are being payed to work 37.5 hours, then work 37.5 hours. If you are asked to work more, then make your employer pay you overtime. If he does not, then look for another job. Working without pay is slavery and that was abolished long ago...

[Boob Johnson]

If the dismissal is unjust even within the 90 day period the employer will still be accountable.

I have been taken to the cleaners for unfair dismissal twice. (actual situations below)

Employee One: Seemed like a nice smart guy, unfortunately he was a bigot and racist - and was quite open with his comments to people not of his colour. Do I fire him or get done by (and lose the respect of) the other poor hard working employees who have been with me for years?

I fired his ass 3 days into the job. Cost the company $8000

Employee Two: Was late for work by 3 to 4 hours a day generally 4 days per week (for months). Caught using a password hacking tool on the CEO's
account.

Went thru the process to get him fired - all boxed ticked, all T's crossed, all i's dotted - yet he took us with a no-win no-fee lawyer and cost us $10,000

See thats the kinda shit this law will stop. I could tell you all some similar horror stories but they are no real different to the above, complete & utter gutter trash taking small businesses to the cleaners. I know of at least one person who makes a living from it