When bikers kill bikers.

[Elysium]

I'm not just talking about motorcyclists killing other motorcyclists (or pillions).

Motorcyclists killing themselves due to a disregard for their onroad behaviour is going to see the death of Motorcycling as we currently know it.

Then your thread title is misleading. The way you're going on, it should be "bikers killing themselves"

[DMNTD:Me]

If you want to survive out there, you have to take responsibility for your own safety, right or wrong.

100% fact...

[riffer]

How often do videos get posted of KBers riding in a manner that shows total disregard for anyone else on the road, and in the way that would have them catching the bus if the police actually did something about it, followed by choruses of "Awesome video man"?

Not as often as kbers calmly and legally going about their own business every day.

[Katman]

I'm not sure what your point is.

My 'point' was in response to Riffer's claim that the government aren't likely to try banning cars.

I actually don't imagine they would ever try banning motorcycles either but at this rate can easily see the day they say "That's it, no more bikes over 500cc are being imported into the country".

[MadDuck]

What, like the Cheesecutter campaign?

There are some of us that are passionate about getting rid of Cheesecutters whether you agree with it or not.

Difference is the people behind this campaign dont just sit behind a keyboard but are trying to bring their concerns to the public view. Perhaps if you are so passionate you could try doing the same instead of just spouting your ideas in here?

There was an accident on Sh16 about a year ago which was a head on biker accident. What I said in that thread I repeat now. I am sure when we set off for a ride the last thing in our minds is not coming home.

If your campaign is to ban motorcycles from the roads then do something about it.

[LBD]

Not wanting to drag the thread back on-topic (despite Katman's obvious attractions) but he is right about the avoiding responsibility thing.

I noticed that even on the Akoroa crash thread, some people were trying to find a way to blame cagers for it.

If you want to survive out there, you have to take responsibility for your own safety, right or wrong. Lets say some wanker pulls out in front of you; more often than not, you could have predicted it. You saw him at the give-way sign and you never saw him look at you? Your fingers should have been tightening on the brake right then. I think some of us take the he's-in-the-wrong-so-I-don't-need-to-do-anything attitude which is OK if you're arguing over a movie queue but loses its attraction as you're flying over a Subaru.

Thats the stuff....and you do have to take it one step further..."you have to take responsibility" and be prepared for the irresponsibility of others... As you say, fingers on the brake and be prepared if a situation should develop. Two early years accidents and have prepared me for two later years near misses, that would have been accidents had I not learnt to be watchful and distrust other dipsticks on the road.

No need to ride slow but no excuse to ride stupid either. A rider can measure his ability by the number and magnitute of OSM,s per year. (Oh Shit Moments)

[Katman]

Then your thread title is misleading.

No it's not.

The title (and the tag of the same name) refers to bikers killing themselves or other bikers through their own actions.

[Swoop]

They're the ones the govt always listens to and passes stupid laws for aren't they?

Quite correct. "The Squeaky Wheel" and all that.

Expect to see quite a bit of the "katman campaign" used against bikers when the Gubbinment choose to target something.

[Katman]

If your campaign is to ban motorcycles from the roads then do something about it.

Where the fuck have I ever suggested that?

[MadDuck]

I actually don't imagine they would ever try banning motorcycles either but at this rate can easily see the day they say "That's it, no more bikes over 500cc are being imported into the country".

Where the fuck have I ever suggested that?

OK I misread this post. Perhaps though you could respond without fucken swearing

[James Deuce]

I dunno. To my eye, KB's history of fatal crashes has been about half-and-half crazy head-up-arse riders and sensible sorts that you'd never expect it to happen to.

We'd all like to think that it's the Carvers who fuck themselves up, but sometimes it's the Hitchers. Y'know?

That's merely perception at work. You'd be surprised at how many "sensible" types died with their head up their arse. But then as has been pointed out, over, and over ad nauseum, we're not allowed to talk about that out loud so that perception is maintained.

My near-death experience was generated entirely by my ego. I wasn't doing anything unsafe or illegal at the time of the mother of all 50 km.hr accidents, but I was busy mentally "Nyah-ing" so I didn't spot the imminent avoidable accident. I got spanked and it served me right. Yes a car pulled out from a Stop sign at night with it's lights off on an unlit street. My bike had (note that, "had") headlights and I have eyes.

[scumdog]

Sure I do. I wonder if the authorities would understand the concept of the potential mass disobedience that could result from banning motorcycles?

Mass? Pfft!

With the percentage of motorbikes vs cagers??

The authorities won't even blink.

[The Stranger:Me]

That's merely perception at work. You'd be surprised at how many "sensible" types died with their head up their arse. But then as has been pointed out, over, and over ad nauseum, we're not allowed to talk about that out loud so that perception is maintained.

My near-death experience was generated entirely by my ego. I wasn't doing anything unsafe or illegal at the time of the mother of all 50 km.hr accidents, but I was busy mentally "Nyah-ing" so I didn't spot the imminent avoidable accident. I got spanked and it served me right. Yes a car pulled out from a Stop sign at night with it's lights off on an unlit street. My bike had (note that, "had") headlights and I have eyes.

I'm missing the message here Jim.
Is it that you are human and as humans do you made a mistake?
Should you have been super human?
The only practical way to prevent all motorcycle accidents is to ban motorcycles.

We've all made mistakes, all gone too fast, all had 20/20 hindsight.
What EXACTLY is it you, katman, dipshit and madbikeboy want?

[madbikeboy]

Where do you see the problem with the morons attitude?
Who says your attitude is the "right" one?

I see the problem as the lack of respect, the promotion of reckless riding on the road, the bragging about riding drunk, with pillions, doing 160 k wheelstands after attending your erection party...

My attitude isn't perfect, but most would agree that not doing most of the above is a good start. I for one would like to see drunk driver's vehicles impounded and crushed for a first offence - but I'm biased, I view the empty places at my Christmas dinner table with less joy than all of you who haven't been affected by drunk drivers. My attitude clearly stinks.

[James Deuce]

I'm missing the message here Jim.
Is it that you are human and as humans do you made a mistake?
Should you have been super human?
The only practical way to prevent all motorcycle accidents is to ban motorcycles.

We've all made mistakes, all gone too fast, all had 20/20 hindsight.
What EXACTLY is it you, katman, dipshit and madbikeboy want?

I'm talking about me, OK, so lets not go off on that tangent.

I had a huge, life changing accident because I'm a (hopefully was) small minded fuckwit and wanted to prove that I could do something that I shouldn't have even attempted. I shouldn't have been on a bike that day. It has nothing to do with hindsight. If I'm in a similar state of mind, I'll use public transport or ask my lovely wife for a lift instead of getting on the bike.