Road crash investigations?

[Horse]

As you may have noticed, there are a couple of active threads going at the moment about recent motorcycle crashes. And in the context of those discussions is the suggestion that there should be no discussion of blame until some future time when an accident investigation is completed and a report produced.

So where are these accident reports? I know I can find detailed analysis of rail, air, and marine accidents at http://www.taic.org.nz/ - but are road crash investigations uniformly made public? Are they posted online anywhere? An admittedly cursory search of teh googletubes doesn't turn up anything useful.

[Patrick]

Transit New Zealand (or whatever they call themselves now) have it all, I believe...

[cowboyz]

of specific crashes and the cause?

[Ixion]

As you may have noticed, there are a couple of active threads going at the moment about recent motorcycle crashes. And in the context of those discussions is the suggestion that there should be no discussion of blame until some future time when an accident investigation is completed and a report produced.

So where are these accident reports? I know I can find detailed analysis of rail, air, and marine accidents at http://www.taic.org.nz/ - but are road crash investigations uniformly made public? Are they posted online anywhere? An admittedly cursory search of teh googletubes doesn't turn up anything useful.

Nope. And nope.And if they were they wouldn't be much help to anyone. They are done (if at all) by the police ; the majority of the time are just a facile response of "it wuz all cos of speeding"; and have a very narrow focus based around "who can we give a ticket too". Proper objective investigations along the lines of thos ein the aviation industry do not exist.

The frequent comment " wait until the accident report" thing on here is just code speak for "shut up, I don't want people talking about this sort of thing , it make me frightened, I'm going to stick my head deeper in this nice sand, it can never happen to me, not ever, so stop talking about it.

[Motu]

It seems to work too.....

[DougieNZ]

The frequent comment " wait until the accident report" thing on here is just code speak for "shut up, I don't want people talking about this sort of thing , it make me frightened, I'm going to stick my head deeper in this nice sand, it can never happen to me, not ever, so stop talking about it.

I can understand that people don't want to see endless speculation withaout all the facts..

But what is really frustrating is that what the "official" report comes out it is never posted here. Normally because the official report may show the rider in a bad light or perhaps show the "supporters" that there is another side to the story...

If you are prepared to speculate before the report, then why not publish it when it comes out?

[Fatjim]

I believe the serious crash unit is not very serious anymore . Also some of the "expert" witnesses the prosecution dredges up are even more of a joke.

[Hitcher]

If a road accident involves a coronial inquest, then road accident reports will be submitted as part of that inquest.

Road accidents are crime scenes, and the accident report probably fulfills the same requirements as a crime scene investigation report, in helping some Sergeant somewhere decide whether or not the Police should press charges. If charges are pressed, then that report should be discoverable by a defence attorney, given that it forms the basis of evidence against an accused person.

If charges are not pressed, then goodness knows whether some wonk somewhere in Wellington receives such documentation to pore over as part of their considered and thorough analysis of road safety matters. I suspect not, given a strong aversion against data sharing between the different arms of the public service.

[Jantar]

As I understand, full road accidents reports are prepared, and do form part of the evidence in a coronor's inquest. They are available if an OIA request is made, but they aren't published in any publicly available form (eg online).

Ixions comment of

the majority of the time are just a facile response of "it wuz all cos of speeding";

is very close to the mark. One accident here in Central Otago, 3 winters ago, had a car slide on black ice. The car was travelling too slow on a correctly cambered bend and slid off the road on the inside of the bend. Other traffic that was travelling just a wee bit faster negotiated the bend OK (as did I on my GS1200 a few minutes later). The attending constable ticked the box for inappropriate speed, and the driver was ticketed for careless driving - too fast for the conditions. He did get off, but that accident was, and is, included in the statistics as "speeding".

[Grahameeboy]

As I understand, full road accidents reports are prepared, and do form part of the evidence in a coronor's inquest. They are available if an OIA request is made, but they aren't published in any publicly available form (eg online).

Ixions comment of is very close to the mark. One accident here in Central Otago, 3 winters ago, had a car slide on black ice. The car was travelling too slow on a correctly cambered bend and slid off the road on the inside the bend. Other traffic that was travelling just a wee bit faster negotiated the bend OK (as did I on my GS1200 a few minutes later). The attending constable ticked the box for inappropriate speed, and the driver was ticketed for careless driving - too fast for the conditions. He did get off, but that accident was, and is, included in the statistics as "speeding".

I wondered what the charges would have been if the guy had been speeding....the same maybe.

You will find that 4% of accidents will be truely related to excessive speed...bit like they say that 30% of accidents are caused by drunk driving but don't point out that the biggest cause of accidents ie 70% are sober drivers....

[FJRider]

I can understand that people don't want to see endless speculation withaout all the facts..

But what is really frustrating is that what the "official" report comes out it is never posted here. Normally because the official report may show the rider in a bad light or perhaps show the "supporters" that there is another side to the story...

If you are prepared to speculate before the report, then why not publish it when it comes out?

Speculation as such is not the issue, it is accusations and implications in those speculations. Basicly, found guilty before the trial.

[FJRider]

I wondered what the charges would have been if the guy had been speeding....the same maybe.

You will find that 4% of accidents will be truely related to excessive speed...bit like they say that 30% of accidents are caused by drunk driving but don't point out that the biggest cause of accidents ie 70% are sober drivers....

So if sobriety was outlawed... 70% of those accidents wouldn't happen... ???
Or is idiocy the cause of sobriety... or vice versa...

[Grahameeboy]

So if sobriety was outlawed... 70% of those accidents wouldn't happen... ???
Or is idiocy the cause of sobriety... or vice versa...

Bugger if I know......

[portokiwi]

[Patrick]

of specific crashes and the cause?

Nope. And nope.And if they were they wouldn't be much help to anyone. They are done (if at all) by the police ; the majority of the time are just a facile response of "it wuz all cos of speeding"; and have a very narrow focus based around "who can we give a ticket too". Proper objective investigations along the lines of thos ein the aviation industry do not exist.

The frequent comment " wait until the accident report" thing on here is just code speak for "shut up, I don't want people talking about this sort of thing , it make me frightened, I'm going to stick my head deeper in this nice sand, it can never happen to me, not ever, so stop talking about it.

Cowboyz - seen reprots and flashy documents issued by "Roadsafe" and Transit NZ (or whatever they are now) and others... Accident "black spots" are easily identified and targetted as a result, as are Fatal black spots... Specific accidents, maybe not, but the causes are all stats captured from TCR's.

Ix...

Words fail me. The "cause" is often spotted and detailed.

"It was all coz of speeding".....

Where is that "Tui" Smilie....

... One accident here in Central Otago, 3 winters ago, had a car slide on black ice. The car was travelling too slow on a correctly cambered bend and slid off the road on the inside of the bend. Other traffic that was travelling just a wee bit faster negotiated the bend OK (as did I on my GS1200 a few minutes later).... .

Me thinks that the driver was bull shitting... hence the cause was determined... Why couldn't he negotiate it at a slower speed when you and others could, at slightly higher speed???