Tales from the Emporium

[buggsubique]

"And i think KLR owners have a patent on the word doohickey, you DR guys will have to find your own word."

Fair enough. I think Nordie & Transalper deserve the right to select an appropiate name.

Fucksicle? pretty much what it's done hasn't it?

[NordieBoy]

Seriously, if you didn't know, philth is a very experienced motorcyclist, friend of TK (SideTrack magazine) and regular contributor. If he says definitely 2nd gear, I'd not doubt it. If he said he wasn't sure, then ok could be 3rd.

His west to (almost) east Aussie crossing report was a good read.
TK's wasn't bad either.

He also said 3 bikes went boom and I know one of them only lost the hardening and didn't destroy the engine - Aussies - You can't trust 'em

[NordieBoy]

I'm very interested because my 3rd gear whine's, to the extent I try to avoid using that gear where possible.
Obviously the 3rd gear whine & breakage issues are linked (poor machining?), however there doesn't seem to be evidence that the former leads to the latter. When you consider how many DR650's are sold, these issues effect only a very small %. But it's still a lottery.

I'd never heard it whine but this pic would indicate abnormal wear?

[NordieBoy]

The NSU unit is the DR650 doohicky.

3rd gear is just "an issue" at the moment.
< waves hands > It doesn't exist < /waves hands >

[Woodman]

I'd never heard it whine but this pic would indicate abnormal wear?

What is the wear on the shaft like?

How often do you guys change gear without the clutch? does this do harm?

How often do you guys change your oil?

There are a lot of factors to consider when looking into why things fail, it would be interesting to see if any patterns emerge with the guys that have had this problem and those that have not.

[NordieBoy]

What is the wear on the shaft like?

How often do you guys change gear without the clutch? does this do harm?

How often do you guys change your oil?

There are a lot of factors to consider when looking into why things fail, it would be interesting to see if any patterns emerge with the guys that have had this problem and those that have not.

Always shifting with the clutch.
Bugger all wear on the shaft - Pic 1
Split from base of tooth to edge of spline - Pic 2

[Woodman]

Always shifting with the clutch.
Bugger all wear on the shaft - Pic 1
Split from base of tooth to edge of spline - Pic 2

You ALWAYS shift with the clutch??

Is this normal?
Who else always shifts with the clutch?

[NordieBoy]

You ALWAYS shift with the clutch??

Is this normal?
Who else always shifts with the clutch?

Well I actually shift with my left foot but I use the clutch as well on every change. Even on my XR250 race bike.

I have tried clutchless shifting but my foot dosn't move unless my left fingers move.

[Woodman]

Well I actually shift with my left foot but I use the clutch as well on every change. Even on my XR250 race bike.

I have tried clutchless shifting but my foot dosn't move unless my left fingers move.

I am in the process of changing my clutchless habit mainly cos when I change up into 2nd then throttle off soon after it slips into neutral which can be scary when you expect a bit of engine braking.

But does anyone know if it can cause premature wear, to the dogs etc. BTW I generally only do this on the upshift.

Found advrider and have been following the gearbox saga there . very interesting.

[Transalper]

....How often do you guys change gear without the clutch? does this do harm?

How often do you guys change your oil?.....

99.9% of gear changes I use the clutch.
When done right a clutchless shift is as smooth as using the clutch and many people do it on many different bikes will no heard of ill effect.
When done smoothly I can not see how it could possibly do any harm.

I change my oil and filter together generally around 4500 to 5000km (service book says do oil every 6000km and filter every 12000km) and am use a nice Elf 10w40 semi synth.

[NordieBoy]

Some bikes shift smoothly without the clutch.
CrazyFrogs DRZ is one. I did the occasional clutchless shift when I was videoing and had the camera in my left hand.

[Woodman]

Some bikes shift smoothly without the clutch.
CrazyFrogs DRZ is one. I did the occasional clutchless shift when I was videoing and had the camera in my left hand.

maybe i will continue doing what I do then.
My Focus has handled about 120 ks with a lot of no clutch shifts and its fine, and has never had gearbox oil changed.
Don't really know a lot about gearboxes.

[warewolf]

How often do you guys change gear without the clutch? does this do harm?

I would venture to suggest that it is easier to cock up a clutchless shift, and harder on the drivetrain when it happens. Done correctly it's as good as any other method. It can also be a good idea to pre-load the gear lever as per clutchless shifts, even if you use the clutch.

I'm not a big fan of clutchless shifts because I find it takes a distracting amount of concentration to do it well, unless you do it by rote. And it is difficult to do it by rote if you routinely ride different bikes with widely different gear shift and throttle response. Using the clutch is just easier and more reliable.

[Woodman]

I would venture to suggest that it is easier to cock up a clutchless shift, and harder on the drivetrain when it happens. Done correctly it's as good as any other method. It can also be a good idea to pre-load the gear lever as per clutchless shifts, even if you use the clutch.

I'm not a big fan of clutchless shifts because I find it takes a distracting amount of concentration to do it well, unless you do it by rote. And it is difficult to do it by rote if you routinely ride different bikes with widely different gear shift and throttle response. Using the clutch is just easier and more reliable.

Good comments ww. Must do it by rote (habit) cos I always have so it doesn't take any extra concentration.

Nordie a design issue with the 3rd gear could be that it suffers from metal fatigue after a while. 60'000 ks is a lot of use and if it really was designed poorly it would not have lasted that long. Are there many sharp edges/corners on it that are crack risers, e.g. the radius on a crankshaft where the surface of the journal meets the web has to be radiused as much as possible otherwise in time the crank will break.The radius also needs to be machined smoothly to eliminate crack risers too, same reason conrods get polished. Could be similar issues with the gear.
A lot of guys with cars have got their gearbox internals shotpeined to help hold them together.
Might be interesting to get the broken bits and the rest crack tested to see if there any other cracks starting.

[NordieBoy]

From an AdvRider poster...
I may have to investigate this...

I wonder if it is worth replacing 3rd gear every now and again... Is it the drive gear or the driven gear that went?
I might try to find prices, and if it's cheap enough it could be good insurance...

According to alphasports.com the 3rd drive gear appears to have been updated as of 2008 (a different part number: "24231-12D20" -> "24231-12D21") and costs ~$65USD. The 3rd driven gear "24331-14A20" hasn't been updated and costs about $65 as well.
Then there is the cost of new gasket/s and circlip/s.
Part# 09380-25003 Desc 3RD PINION CIRC USD Price 2.31
Part# 11482-32E00 Desc GASKET,CLUTCH C USD Price 15.32
Part# 11483-32E00 Desc GASKET,MAGNETO USD Price 13.44 (just in case)
There doesn't appear to be a gasket for the crankcase itself?
The cylinder gaskets are reusable right?


Anyone 60,000km on their '08 bike yet? :evil

It may look like I'm going over the top, but I just like researching stuff.