Wot's the Ducati difference?

[longwayfromhome]

In the end race results mean nothing on the road......

...mmm, and thats pretty important for many of us. I believe it was in Bike some years ago that an R1100S did the lot of them (yes, a beemer) in a real-world test over 100+ miles of pommie A/B roads, one of the Duc's coming in 2nd (998/999 from memory), one reason was the need for a gas stop on some of the bikes :-). Ahh, ya gotta love that telelever. So that was why I was keen on the ST4S , it had that Duc howl + it really could compete...it was just a few years after Gary Egan won the Iron Butt in the US on an ST4....and then there's the Multistrada..sweet.

If you've been price-conditioned by BMW, a Duc looks quite reasonable! If you've drunk the BMW-reliability Kool-aid, then a Duc approaches "solid". Neither brand is cost-justified in comparo with japanese brands, therefore it must be "something else"....if you buy one there is obviously something else for you, if you don't then even if the "something else" exists, it just ain't worth it. Who can blame either party? It just astonishes and annoys some people that others will pay the difference, then try and justify it with apparently nonsense justifications.

Perhaps the Harley crowd is right...if you don't like it, you don't understand.

[BMWST?]

i think all this thread really shows is how we humans humanise everything....ie bikes and kittens can have"personality".
Having said that though BMW s ARE different and once you swallow your predujice and ride and ride their way becomes a good way.....
same with Ducatis...when i first got mine i was astonished at how different it was than my previous 3 big UJM,s,but it got the job done in a completely different way,I could open the throttle wide and much much earlier than my previous bikes(900 and 1000) and i had to cos it only produced 400 cc top speeds albeit 750 cc levels of accell out of corners while still leaned over(as long as the road wasnt too bumpy).The carb on the rear cyclinder fell of in Te Kuiti.I had to use a bolt or nut from the front carby.See that's personality!
My K100 rs on the other hand did things completely different too,but at an extreme coming from the other side of the engine/suspension package of my Big twin.

[imdying]

Ahhh, kittens can have personality... you might have noticed that some will attack everything for fun, whilst others never leave a sun beam? That's there personality shining through

[Oscar]

i think all this thread really shows is how we humans humanise everything....ie bikes and kittens can have"personality".
Having said that though BMW s ARE different and once you swallow your predujice and ride and ride their way becomes a good way.....
same with Ducatis...when i first got mine i was astonished at how different it was than my previous 3 big UJM,s,but it got the job done in a completely different way,I could open the throttle wide and much much earlier than my previous bikes(900 and 1000) and i had to cos it only produced 400 cc top speeds albeit 750 cc levels of accell out of corners while still leaned over(as long as the road wasnt too bumpy).The carb on the rear cyclinder fell of in Te Kuiti.I had to use a bolt or nut from the front carby.See that's personality!
My K100 rs on the other hand did things completely different too,but at an extreme coming from the other side of the engine/suspension package of my Big twin.

Substitute a Japanese brand name for BMW or Ducati in that paragraph and you will realise it makes little or no sense. If a Honda did the things you describe, you'd say it was crap.

What you're saying is that you'll settle for sub-standard build quality and handling, provided it comes from a particular factory, and they make staunch ads.

Why don't you ride a Harley, then?

[JMemonic]

Bleeding heck all this talk about Jap sorts bikes vs Italian then comparisons to Harley, where did that really come from when the original question was whats the difference between a series of Ducati's, perhaps if comparisons are to be made compare like bikes the ST's are Sports Tourer's not sports bikes or tourers but a bike that fit somewhere in between, and in this role they are ideal, when I purchased mine I was looking for a bike that could fill my wish list, you know what Jap bikes had nothing to offer, there are stuff all sports tourers out there.

Sure when it comes to pure sports bikes some of the arguments used have merit but you know what they are the same arguments used to defend x brand vs h etc, ride what you want to ride, pay the maintenance you want to pay, as someone pointed out at the end of the day they are plastic and steel, (with assorted alloys thrown in), it all really pointless sitting here arguing with is better when you could be out riding.

[imdying]

it all really pointless sitting here arguing with is better when you could be out riding.

No actually, stuck at work... it passes the hours during builds...

[BMWST?]

Substitute a Japanese brand name for BMW or Ducati in that paragraph and you will realise it makes little or no sense. If a Honda did the things you describe, you'd say it was crap.

What you're saying is that you'll settle for sub-standard build quality and handling, provided it comes from a particular factory, and they make staunch ads.

Why don't you ride a Harley, then?

You have got me wrong.Where in my post am i saying that japanese brands dont have personality.I am merely noting that others have given bikes(not just beemers and duc's either) these traits.
I am not saying that they are better or worse.For instance many many people comment that the bmw swithgear is WRONG...however if you have a BMW and ride it every day the switchgear is not wrong,its just different to most other bikes...

[dipshit]

it all really pointless sitting here arguing with is better when you could be out riding.

Let me see... today i am having a peaceful relaxing day preparing my bike (cleaning, adjusting the chain, getting a new reg as it runs out tomorrow, etc) in order to ride over to the west coast tomorrow or Saturday for the Woodstock rally. Then after that taking the long way home via Nelson and back down the east coast as i don't have to be back at work until the 8th of Feb.

As i said, i like to rack up the miles as i regularly get long breaks from work... and is a major reason i feel i would be better off with the SV than a Ducati.

[Oscar]

You have got me wrong.Where in my post am i saying that japanese brands dont have personality.I am merely noting that others have given bikes(not just beemers and duc's either) these traits.
I am not saying that they are better or worse.For instance many many people comment that the bmw swithgear is WRONG...however if you have a BMW and ride it every day the switchgear is not wrong,its just different to most other bikes...

I'm sorry, I was getting wound up with some of the brand snobbery in this thread (not yours).

My point was I can understand why people will put up with shoddy design or build (which they're usually paying more for), because of a perceived or real exclusivity but I don't understand why they will also slag off other brands (usually Jap ones) for this lack of "personality".

My own experience with BMW was probably the cause of my grumpiness in this respect. Far from thinking my GS had some sort of "personality", I couldn't help thinking that for two-thirds of the price, I could have had a Jap bike that actually worked...

[BMWST?]

I'm sorry, I was getting wound up with some of the brand snobbery in this thread (not yours).

My point was I can understand why people will put up with shoddy design or build (which they're usually paying more for), because of a perceived or real exclusivity but I don't understand why they will also slag off other brands (usually Jap ones) for this lack of "personality".

My own experience with BMW was probably the cause of my grumpiness in this respect. Far from thinking my GS had some sort of "personality", I couldn't help thinking that for two-thirds of the price, I could have had a Jap bike that actually worked...

sorry to hear that...for the record both my bmw k 100 and ducati gave me very little trouble....unlike my kawasaki Z1000....

[JMemonic]

No actually, stuck at work... it passes the hours during builds...

Spoilt you are, internet at work I dont know, oddly IT said emphaticly no when I asked to have access to KB at work, unsure why.

As i said, i like to rack up the miles as i regularly get long breaks from work... and is a major reason i feel i would be better off with the SV than a Ducati.

Fair enough, at the end of the day its about what suits the rider, and that was the point, some folks do get a little anal about brands never understood why I would have another ST but maybe not any other Ducati, and you will not see me going out buying Ducati underwear , unlike some folks and their brand of bike.

[dipshit]

Fair enough, at the end of the day its about what suits the rider, and that was the point, some folks do get a little anal about brands never understood why I would have another ST but maybe not any other Ducati, and you will not see me going out buying Ducati underwear , unlike some folks and their brand of bike.

I'm totally open to having my mind changed if a few Ducati owners pipe up at having clocked up 100,000 + kms without too much trouble on their later model bikes...???

[sondela]

Seems like there is a lot of unnecessary aggro in this world already, sigh..
I think that there are as many different people out there, as there are bikes to suit them..it would be a shame if we didn't celebrate our differences by totally enjoying the bikes we ride, whatever they are.
It's the bikes that join us people as a group, and our love of them, in all their different glories.
Go out there, wave at bikers and be happy... oh and Long Live Ducatis!

[Winston001]

I'm totally open to having my mind changed if a few Ducati owners pipe up at having clocked up 100,000 + kms without too much trouble on their later model bikes...???

Good question. I've just browsed the Ducati MS forum where it has been discussed. I'd love to point you to a thread of owners with over 100,000k - and there are some - but most (American) posters average around 30,000 miles, with their bikes still running well and no problems.

There are a couple of reasons why talk of high mileage isn't common.

1. Many overseas Ducati owners worry about depreciation in value as the miles increase. Might be the same here, I don't know. There does appear to be a sanctified attitude by some towards their bikes - kept cosseted in warm garages and only brought out on perfect days for short rides. The Japanese Ducatis being brought in give this impression.

2. Ducati produce different types of bikes with different performance expectations. No-one complains about rebuilding high-performance two-smokes. Similarly bikes like the 748r are designed to high performance specs, not generous tolerances, and they can wear. By comparison the ST series are designed for longevity. I'd hazard a guess that the current Sport Classics such as the 900SS would go far as well.

The one theme which comes up time and time again is that following the maintenance schedule is very important. Japanese bikes seem to be more forgiving in that sense.

[Max Preload]

There are a couple of reasons why talk of high mileage isn't common.

1. Many overseas Ducati owners worry about depreciation in value as the miles increase. Might be the same here, I don't know. There does appear to be a sanctified attitude by some towards their bikes - kept cosseted in warm garages and only brought out on perfect days for short rides. The Japanese Ducatis being brought in give this impression.

But if it's all about 'passion' surely mere depreciation isn't a factor...