Can't say I haven't fallen off anymore...

[Lucy]

Always before I've 'dropped it', usually while stopped, but today I fell off properly, whilst riding, had my foot stuck under the bike and everything. Didn't hurt and the bike is fine too, I was going really really slowly.

Things I have learnt today:
It's easier to ride up steep rutted rocky gravel roads, than to ride down them.
Riding sandy rocky gravelly roads (Tukino skifield access road) on a BMW R80 with a near bald front tyre is a really dumb idea. Well, it's ok going up, but coming down is quite tricky.
When nice soldiers from the Singapore army try to help you down a steep bit, they too will drop it...

Thick soft sand makes the gravel bits seem really easy.

Things I remembered to do today:
Stand on pegs to put COG lower (yay didn't fall off in the sandy bits, although it wobbled and skidded heaps)
Look where you want to go.

Things I remembered AFTER falling off about five times:

USE THE BACK BRAKE. Doh. What a ning nong. When I started using the back brake coming down it was a whole lot better and I only fell off once or twice after that.

[Taz]

USE THE BACK BRAKE. Doh. What a ning nong. When I started using the back brake coming down it was a whole lot better and I only fell off once or twice after that.

Use both brakes gently. Even on gravel with road tyres the front will still give the majority of the braking force.

[Lucy]

Use both brakes gently. Even on gravel with road tyres the front will still give the majority of the braking force.

True, but I probably didn't actually need to brake, just needed to grow some balls. It was really slippery, as soon as I touched the front brake the wheel locked and slid out.

[xwhatsit]

just needed to grow some balls.

Ah. You might have trouble there.

Nice! Looks like you had a blast! At least with an airhead twin the bike can't fall too far

[jrandom]

Stand on pegs to put COG lower

Gah. Thud.

A few minutes of thinking should make it plain that standing on the pegs does nothing of the sort. It raises the bulk of your body's mass up into the air, thereby making the center of mass of the bike-rider system higher, not lower.

But it does allow your knees to act as suspension and stop your body getting bounced around, which is kinda necessary when riding offroad.

However. The 'stand on pegs to lower COG' myth is just that; a myth.

By all means, stand up offroad to help with absorbing the bumps and jumps, but in many situations, particularly on smooth surfaces, your bike will handle better with a lower center of mass. That means moving your torso closer to the ground, not further away from it.

[Motu]

You wouldn't have dropped it if you had a sidecar attached.

Do you still have it by the way??...??

Handle bars have a lot to do with it on surfaces like that - standard BMW bars are low and narrow,put's your weight too far forward,standing on the pegs will make it worse.Weight to the rear and more rear brake on down hills....sounds like you got it in the end.

[xwhatsit]

By all means, stand up offroad to help with absorbing the bumps and jumps, but in many situations, particularly on smooth surfaces, your bike will handle better with a lower center of mass. That means moving your torso closer to the ground, not further away from it.

All very valid, but don't forget the wrong-way-up broomstick-in-the-palm-of-your-hand trick -- with the bulk of the mass up top, everything happens slowly and predictably and you can catch it when it starts to topple. Move the broomstick brush-side-down, and it'll fall over in a flash before you can balance it.

[Ixion]

Gah. Thud.

A few minutes of thinking should make it plain that standing on the pegs does nothing of the sort. It raises the bulk of your body's mass up into the air, thereby making the center of mass of the bike-rider system higher, not lower.

But it does allow your knees to act as suspension and stop your body getting bounced around, which is kinda necessary when riding offroad.

However. The 'stand on pegs to lower COG' myth is just that; a myth.

By all means, stand up offroad to help with absorbing the bumps and jumps, but in many situations, particularly on smooth surfaces, your bike will handle better with a lower center of mass. That means moving your torso closer to the ground, not further away from it.

It is more complex than that. You are thinking only of sprotsbikes.

When descending a steep badly surfaced slope, what is needed, as Mr Motu said, is weight BACK

Now, sitting down it is hard to move your weight back. And when the front hits a bump and the suspension compresses, weight moves even futher forward.

Standing, it is easier to move back . Sitting , all you can do is push your upper body backwards, and even that is akward. Standing, you can move your whole body back - and most of us carry the majority of weight in our arse (no offence ladies).

And when the front compresses, one can lean further back easily.

You will not be leaning, so the increased pendulum effect of the higher CoM is of no matter.

You can't do it at all on a sprotsbike of course. All that happens is you end up crouched over the steering head like a dwarf about to give birth.

[Motu]

Yes - you need to stand up to balance...yourself and the bike.You need to be able to stand on the pegs not touching the bars....all you weight on your feet,then you will be able to have no weight on your hands.Can't do that with low narrow bars.

[jrandom]

When descending a steep badly surfaced slope, what is needed, as Mr Motu said, is weight BACK

I have ridden a mountainbike down an bumpy incline or two in my time, y'know.

I find the simple incorrectness of the 'lower COG' comment vaguely annoying, y'see. So I point out that it is incorrect.

Standing up on the pegs is, of course, necessary for riding offroad, and very good advice in many circumstances. But doing so does not 'lower' any 'center of gravity'. In fact, it raises it.

Sorry to butt in like this; I'm probably more obsessed than I should be with trying to stop people making themselves sound like idiots.

[Lucy]

You wouldn't have dropped it if you had a sidecar attached.

Do you still have it by the way??...??

Handle bars have a lot to do with it on surfaces like that - standard BMW bars are low and narrow,put's your weight too far forward,standing on the pegs will make it worse.Weight to the rear and more rear brake on down hills....sounds like you got it in the end.

Hiya, yes I do have the sidecar. It's been on for a while but I haven't been riding as much as I hate cornering with it on, so I took it off this morning so I could go on a decent ride.

I am itching to have a go offroad and do the Raetihi ripper and other trail rides around the place, but can't afford another bike at the moment, so thought I'd give it a go anyway, but yeah, going up was all good...

Not sure why I stood up in the loose sand and little river crossing, it just seemed like the right thing to do, I would have done it on my pushbike, so I guess that's why. I guess I just said COG cos I wanted to sound grownup. Apparently it made me sound like an idiot anyway. Oh well.

Can't wait to go up there again when I've got a TTR or something. I'm sure my GN would have been good too, not that I can complain about the BMW, it coped well with being dropped multiple times on both sides. Nothing broke as far as I can tell, and it kept on going.

[gijoe1313]

Well, sounds like a learning experience and as Ixion is wont to say, all part of life's rich tapestry when the patina of time clouds over your riding years, you can look back and say "I damn well bloody did it!"

Good on you for doing things a little more differently every day! A great adventure and all!

So how is the ride? Tough little thing that ticks along!

[jrandom]

I guess I just said COG cos I wanted to sound grownup. Apparently it made me sound like an idiot anyway. Oh well.

See, now I feel all bad and stuff!

But at least you, too, can hold forth with authority now whenever someone repeats the 'stand on pegs to lower COG' myth, and point out that raising your body up in the air doesn't make the center of mass lower, it makes it higher.

Good on ya for getting out there and riding those trails, sounds like you're having a great time.

[buggsubique]

that's a great ride up the Tukino rd. Are those Singaporeans up there? ha, They would have wondered what the f*ck was going on! Great stuff!

[cave weta]

can I throw in another worm?

I was told that standing up, while raising the Cof G does lower the polar moment which is the point at which the mass changes direction. The seat is higher than the pegs so the point of Effect is lowerered increasing manoverability
anyway ...
thats what I think...
or thats what I think I think..
or thats what I think he thinks ..or something!

Lucy-you will fall off.. thats how you tell that you are having fun!