Fisher & Paykel my arse...

[The Pastor]

Bullshit. There is definitely room for intelligent and profitable manufacturing in New Zealand. Just look at successful New Zealand companies like Hubbard Foods.

Talk of a predominantly services based economy is retarded. We cannot build an economy that is based on cutting each other's hair.

if you read my post, i said we have to look at how to change in order to do that, you moronic mummy's boy muppet

[davereid]

Some in socialist Europe are talking about there needing to be a fundamental change to the capitalist model, and to be fair they're probably not wrong (I've been telling people that the days of capitalism are numbered, for about the past three years). I mean, who looks up at bankers and financiers that got the world into this mess and doesn't say "Greedy bastards. If only I could get my hands on them".

Great post, I completely agree that we are only on a gentle slope, and that the depths of the hole are yet to be apparent.

However, capitalisim has not caused this, nor have private commercial banks.

The seeds for this mess were sown by central (government) controlled banks.

Ask yourself "How can it be that if credit is in short supply, why is it that interest rates are dropping ?"

The answer is too complex to be answered in a few words, but essentially credit expansion is the cause of the current problem. The US treasury in particular was determined not to allow the US to suffer a series of small recessions. So it continued to add credit to the economy with a low cash rate. This found its way into the economy by way of US bonds etc, which then meant US commercial banks were well stocked with cash. Which they had to loan to make money.

And US consumers borrowed, and bought, and speculated, and got massively wealthy as property values climbed.

It was of course inevitable, that one day, the market would realise that a 1/8 acre section, was actually not worth $500k.

[geoffm]

Good to see that F&P are keeping up their fine traditions of having good products, totally foobared by flaws.
Our F&P dishwasher lasted 3 weeks befire it died - new computer which took 2 weeks to fix. Then the dispenser just out of warranty - another computer dying which controls the flap. Just chucked the powder in loose for years. Then the latch died - only way to get it to work was to stuff a tea towel in the latch to keep it in tight. Put up with that for 6 months before a second hand Bosch came up form our office renovations at work - much, much better than the F&P was even when new. It actually dries the dishes, is quieter and washes better.
Then there is the F&P chest freezer with ABS plastic handles on the baskets - that get brittle when they get cold - say subzero temperatures.
Then there is our now deceased 10YO upright freezer that had plastic fronts to the pull out drawers that fell off when pulliing the drawer out, so everything fell out on the ground. The replacement Westinghouse is much better - and cheaper than F&P.
To be fair, our Smartdrive soldiers on, with some minor repairs over the years. The drier still goes but at 10 years old is getting reatlty. They certainly don't last like they used to.
Geoff

[Ixion]

Some years ago (say 20 or 30) F&P made good quality products that were , in some cases, world leaders.

About 25 years ago we bought a very early Gentle Annie eashing machine (Mrs Ixion did - she did not buy it on any specific basis, just we needed a new washing machine, and she always bought F&P).

It was a very good machine. Ran for 25 years , only needed the pump cleared a few times (bloody hairpins!) and a couple of new hoses.

The build quality was good, and the electronics and the computer controlled motor were right up with the play, if not world leaders.

About a year ago (just before they closed down in NZ), it sprang a leak that wasn't going to get fixed . Fair enough, 25 years of service is pretty good, I reckon we got our money's worth. So, Mrs Ixion trotted out and bought a new washing machine . A F&P , of course. Nothing else considered, it was just what you did .

I was very disappointed at the very marked reduction in quality. The materials were cheapened way down, the build quality was way inferior. I have to say it hasn't given any problems yet, but I'm not expecting it to last another 25 years

It is a mistake to suppose that the only way to compete in a market is to be the cheapest. Which is the mistake F&P made.

Consider Italian bikes. Ducati certainly aren't the cheapest. Nor are MV Agusta. Or even Moto Guzzi. Nor are any of them "perfect". Yet people buy them and pay a premium.

If F&P had stuck to that market, and not gotten all big headed , they would not be in this mess. By trying to take on the US market and pitching into a market with price as the differentiator they shat on themselves. (The reason they drove by price is because that is the only way to get a fast entry into a market)

Will the present machine's repalcement be a F&P ? No. Mrs Ixion no longer approves of F&P. It will be a Mitsubishi. Because my Pajero is made by Mitsubishi. No, I don't quite follow it either. But once she had recovered from her disappointment at finding that Nissan ( in Mrs Ixion's eyes the best brand in the world , because they make the Nissan Sunny) did not make washing machines, she settled on Mitsubishi.

[Max Preload]

Consider Italian bikes. Ducati certainly aren't the cheapest. Nor are MV Agusta. Or even Moto Guzzi. Nor are any of them "perfect". Yet people buy them and pay a premium.

But to be fair, there's little gloating value for the weekend warriors, born agains, accountants & lawyers in having a high quality dishwasher. Except for maybe this one.

[Ixion]

Dunno. SMEG seem to do that. I've seen it in advertisments "kitchen fully SMEG fitted out" and such like. Guys it wouldn't mean anything but women gloat to other women about that sort of stuff.

PS. I think it's SMEG. I have no idea what SMEG is, I'm not much into kitchenware. If smeg is something indecent then I've got the name wrong.

[SixPackBack]

Dunno. SMEG seem to do that. I've seen it in advertisments "kitchen fully SMEG fitted out" and such like. Guys it wouldn't mean anything but women gloat to other women about that sort of stuff.

PS. I think it's SMEG. I have no idea what SMEG is, I'm not much into kitchenware. If smeg is something indecent then I've got the name wrong.

SMEG is short for smegma. SMEG is a common word of derision [used predominantly in the U.K] which is not surprising when you consider smegma is penile foreskin cheese.

[Ixion]

So why do chicks think it such a good thing to have in their kitchens?

[trustme]

F&P market to the top end in the States , the volumes are relatively small but it had a reached a level of market share that justified a plant in the US. The motor lines sent 90% of their production to Whirlpool Ohio hence the reason for the plant going to Ohio, after all why ship 90% to the US , better to ship 10% back to NZ.
The quality of product has gone down , doing their R&D on the end user is a valid point, some of their stuff has been sent out way under developed, it may be smart & leading edge but it aint debugged so if you buy F&P buy 2nd or 3rd generation not their new ranges
I scratch my head at some of what happens at F&P , penny wise & pound foolish comes to mind so I am not suprised if their relocation budget has blown out.
If the govt bails them & have grave misgivings.it should only be done on a commercial basis, F&P has been steadily shedding jobs for some time, if the bail out means that business direction is no longer commercially driven but politically driven we will only prolong the demise at the taxpayers expense.If the jobs were going anyway & the business direction was in fact the correct one then maybe bail it so they can finish the job bit it should only be as an absolute last resort. Many of the management nave been developed from within the company, they have never had experience elsewhere, they are a little cosseted & blinkered ,they almost believe their own BS about being an icon, this is their wakeup call
I do not, nor have I ever worked for F&P although I have contracted to them on accasions over a 25 year period

[davereid]

While holding his hand up for government money to save jobs, it's interesting to note that the chief executive pays himself about $7,000,000 P.A. and has for many years.

We can't be sure what the half dozen not-quite-as-chief-but-not-indians are paid, but it would appear that by slashing the salaries of management, F&P could fund its own way out of this mess.

Slashing their own salaries, is of course what the fellow who runs the dairy, local garage and lawn mowing franchise are doing, yet they will be asked to put their hand in their pocket to keep F&P executives fat.

Edit: $9.8 million is the figue for the top 5 execs. Bongards salary is not declared

http://m.theaustralian.com.au/busine...ws/fi20983.htm

[pzkpfw]

Frack!

I know it's not that simple.

And I know it's not the way things work.

And I do consider myself a right-wing-capitalist not a left-wing-socialist (and, yes, I know that that's not that simple)...

But it just struck me that an F&P exec could pay him/herself "just" $1,000,000 per year and the other $6,000,000 would fund 120 people at $50,000 each.

Eeep.

[ManDownUnder]

helens crew had us all cheering on the great nz worker in her kiwimade ads (shades of tractor factory no 2) ,... but of course we all ignored it and got the cheap imported stuff (that was built properly) from wherever...

That'd be The Warehouse...!

Exactly right. Typical mentality thet "Everyone needs to buy NZ made to keep Kiwi's in work - except me... I found a good price over here and can make a few bucks flogging it off cheap."

Manufacturers in NZ have a few issues in NZ that simply can't be worked around
1) Small local market
2) We're a bloody long way from major markets.

Heavy or bulky goods will cost a lot to get to our major markets unless we (gasp) make them more locally, or to be precise, optimise the total cost of delivery (manufacture + transport).

It's not hard to do - and I'll bet a good number of shareholders in F&P gleefully encouraged cheaper manufacturing offshore as a strategy.

[vifferman]

My previous and current F&P dishwashers have convinced me to try another brand next time.

I had been a loyal buyer of F&P products: four washing machines, two refrigerators, a freezer, two dishwashers, etc. (Part of this was due to my wife's uncle being a close personal friend of Maurice Paykel, which enabled us to get a cheaper washing machine years ago when we were short of cash). However, our current fridge (F&P) is not a good design, and I regret buying it, and in future will buy based on features etc., not brand.
Our current d/w is Dishlex, oven is Westinghouse, cooktop is Whirlpool. My mother has - after owning about five F&P dishwashers (mainly because they are one of the few that have cold AND hot water inlets) - finally switched to another brand (Electrolux, IIRC). Every time she's bought an F&P, she's ended up whinging about how useless it is, and finally saw sense.

I dunno how I feel about NZ manufacturers. It's nice to see NZ made goods on the market if they're of good quality, and I don't mind paying a few more shekeldollars for them. But manufacturing in NZ was effectively shafted when the Gummint decided years ago to adopt a free market economy, and progressively abolish tariffs, import restrictions, etc. Kinda mental when even the strongest economies in the world have tariffs and protectionism.

[ManDownUnder]

SMEG is short for smegma. SMEG is a common word of derision [used predominantly in the U.K] which is not surprising when you consider smegma is penile foreskin cheese.

Blue vein?

[pete376403]

Edit: $9.8 million is the figue for the top 5 execs. Bongards salary is not declared

The 2008 annual report identified Mr Bongard as earning nearly $1.2 million a year for his work as managing director and chief executive
http://www.odt.co.nz/news/business/4...-firm039s-pain