God save the queen her fascist regime.

[Dave Lobster]

Right, lets put to bed the stupid "value for money" arguement:

http://www.republic.org.uk/royalcosts/index.php


I may as well also state for clarity's sake, I'm a Pom, I'm a republican and I will not become a citizen of this country whilst an oath to Elizabeth Saxe-Coburg-Gotha is required.

That link is uniformed rubbish. President Bliar has got her paying tax. She pays in considerably more than the paltry 150M that they Royals take out.

The 150m is probably a similar amount to what it costs the government to run their private jets. I know where I'd rather have the money spent.

[jonbuoy]

Fascist in the title comes from a line in a "Sex pistols" song [god save the queen]. Thank you for putting me right about the meaning of Semantic.
Here is another word, one you hold close to your heart.......Pedantic.

Becoming a historian will not change the facts. The royal family has no official mandate from the British people to do what they have done [still do], receive the level of respect that they do, have the military forces named after them etc, etc.
Did you vote for them?

Gotta say Ixion this is a bizarre stand for someone who claims to be a Communist?...really WTF?

Why do you care - your not British and you don't pay taxes? And if the British empire days hadn't existed neither would NZ as you know it. For some reason I don't understand some Kiwis seem to think their forefathers evolved on NZ soil. The Majority of brits don't mind having a monarchy, they same can be said for NZ and OZ. Its probably cheaper to "run" a monarchy than to change the whole of the English law and political system to anything else. And WTF has any of this got to do with bikes anyway?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Isn't the line:

God Save the queen, the fascist regime
that made you a moron
potential H - Bomb

God save the queen
She aint no human being.....

thats from memory. I can hear Lydon singing it in my head now.

[SixPackBack]

Why do you care - your not British and you don't pay taxes? And if the British empire days hadn't existed neither would NZ as you know it. For some reason I don't understand some Kiwis seem to think their forefathers evolved on NZ soil. The Majority of brits don't mind having a monarchy, they same can be said for NZ and OZ. Its probably cheaper to "run" a monarchy than to change the whole of the English law and political system to anything else. And WTF has any of this got to do with bikes anyway?

I am British. Most of my extended family still live in Britain, and most of them hate the monarchy with a passion as do a lot of Welsh, Scots and those folk from Northern Ireland.

[jonbuoy]

I am British. Most of my extended family still live in Britain, and most of them hate the monarchy with a passion as do a lot of Welsh, Scots and those folk from Northern Ireland.

I don't have anything to hate them for - no worse than politicians or bankers and traders who shaft the world economy and still take there bonuses and huge paychecks. Its not like they swan around in Ferraris living the playboy lifestyle all day, they have no freedom/privacy - born into a role they never asked for. I prefer my life any day of the week.

They do cost a lot of money but most of it is put back into the British economy and jobs. Security, Staff, upkeep on the houses and palaces, a sense of history and identity for many people. And they act as non-threatening and slightly quaint envoys for UK foreign relations.

[Dave Lobster]

I can hear Lydon singing it in my head now.

Singing???

[Mr Merde]

That link is uniformed rubbish. President Bliar has got her paying tax. She pays in considerably more than the paltry 150M that they Royals take out.

The 150m is probably a similar amount to what it costs the government to run their private jets. I know where I'd rather have the money spent.

Blair didnt make her pay taxes, she decided out of the GOODNESS of her heart that she should pay a basic rate of 5% of her earnings to the government coffers.

It has only been since the first decade of the 20th century that the royalty have been tax exempt. Queen Vicky died almost a bankrupt. SInce then the British royalty have been coining it. Elizabeth von Battenburg is judged to be the wealthiest woman in the world.

A little known fact is that Buckingham Palace is not owned by her but is in fact a public building, therefore supported and maintained by the government. The charge to visit this building goes to the royal coffers.

As to her right to the throne. I find it debatable. She is decendant of a tuetonic line brought in only a few hundred years ago. ,

The Duke od Westminster and Lord Beaulei (not sure of spelling) have a clearer claim to the throne via the Tudors than the current monarch. It has been shown that both of these parties have signed documents giving up their right to the throne.

So our current monarchy are userpers.

[MisterD]

That link is uniformed rubbish. President Bliar has got her paying tax. She pays in considerably more than the paltry 150M that they Royals take out.

Don't know how you work that out - the majority of the Queen's personal income is from the Duchy of Lancaster - about 8M pounds before tax.

The "crown estates" are not hers, they belong to the country. The idea that she is somehow generously putting money in is pure monarchist spin and BS.

[Ixion]

Becoming a historian will not change the facts. The royal family has no official mandate from the British people to do what they have done [still do], receive the level of respect that they do, have the military forces named after them etc, etc.
Did you vote for them?

Gotta say Ixion this is a bizarre stand for someone who claims to be a Communist?...really WTF?

Historians do not change facts. They elucidate them. A study of any good history book would help you to understand what you are talking about. Most of what you are saying is not factual at all. At best it is polemic, or simple waffle. The *facts*, are not in your diatribes but in the history books. Read them , and learn whereof you speak,

As to an "official mandate". What on earth do you suppose the Act of Succession *is*? have you read it? Or are you simply spouting more waffle about a subject of which you appear totally ignorant.

On related matters: The Crown lands did belong to the Monarch, and the income from them was used to fund the costs of the monarchy, until he Time of George III. There was no Civil List. In a regrettable decision, that King bowed to pressure form the politicians and exchanged his property for a pension , the Civil List. The politicians got a good deal, the income from the Crown estate now is far more than the Civil List

Likewise - Buckingham House was the private property of George II, paid by him from his personal income, so that he had a house for his (many) children to live in. He later gave it to the country. Having made the country so munificent a gift it would seem very mean indeed to complain that his successors do not pay for the upkeep of what they no longer own.

It's all in thos ehistory books. Along with much else. A fascinating subject , and well worth reading up on. He who runs may read (It's a pun - gedit gedit, oh gawd now I've fallen off my chair, I'm turning into peasea)

Oh, and why ever should a communist not be a monarchist ?

Oh - yes, and I'm still waiting for someone to put forward the name of a person who the country would generally be happy to entrust with plenary power as a President, who would not fall into terminal dissension with the Prime Minister, and who would actually accept the job, and be capable of doing it. No takers ?
'

[Lias]

Personally, I'm one of the "NZ will be a republic when they pry my weapons from my cold dead hands" lot.

I'd go so far as to advocate abolishing parliamant and just having the GG as the ruler of the country. Politicians are scum.

[MisterD]

On related matters: The Crown lands did belong to the Monarch, and the income from them was used to fund the costs of the monarchy, until he Time of George III. There was no Civil List. In a regrettable decision, that King bowed to pressure form the politicians and exchanged his property for a pension , the Civil List. The politicians got a good deal, the income from the Crown estate now is far more than the Civil List

Likewise - Buckingham House was the private property of George II, paid by him from his personal income, so that he had a house for his (many) children to live in. He later gave it to the country. Having made the country so munificent a gift it would seem very mean indeed to complain that his successors do not pay for the upkeep of what they no longer own.

Back the truck up Ixion, the ownership which you dscribe all comes back to someone's ancestor being handy with a sword - not a basis for rational government in the 21st century.

[Oscar]

I am British. Most of my extended family still live in Britain, and most of them hate the monarchy with a passion as do a lot of Welsh, Scots and those folk from Northern Ireland.

"...those folk from Northern Ireland."

The majority of the population are loyalists - that's why it exists!

As for the Scots - it's their Royal Family too (James was King of Scotland before he was King of England).

And the Welsh?

Who gives a flying fuck what the Welsh think?

[Ixion]

Back the truck up Ixion, the ownership which you dscribe all comes back to someone's ancestor being handy with a sword - not a basis for rational government in the 21st century.

Not so. The ownership all comes back to an act of parliament. The Act of Settlement. As far as I am aware, Parliament is still considered a reasonably rationale basis for government. F' Gawds sake, go and read the ruddy act everyone, so you have some idea of what you are talking about. Did *everyone* sleep all through the history classes at school? Does noone even vaguely recall the master babbling on about the Glorious Revolution? (personally , of course, I disagree with it.Traitors, all of them. God save King Francis II . But that's just me. )

[Oscar]

Back the truck up Ixion, the ownership which you dscribe all comes back to someone's ancestor being handy with a sword - not a basis for rational government in the 21st century.

Er - that describes most every Country on the planet...
Name one Nation/State that wasn't founded on the basis that someone's ancestor was handy with a sword.

[Dave Lobster]

"...those folk from Northern Ireland."

The majority of the population are loyalists - that's why it exists!

A quick drive around Lisburn would confirm this..

Who gives a flying fuck what the Welsh think?

NOBODY!!!!