Give Way rule

[Skyryder]

From what I understand and have been told it applies to any area that is not controlled by gates or fencing. I was recently told this while sitting my Forklift endorsement as we had to do the practical test in a car park that had the gate closed so that we were no longer part of the road system and the road rules would not apply, hence an unlicensed person could sit the test in that area.

I don't see anything in the Act that covers the locked gate but there may hve been a court ruling on this.

Because of the wide scope of the definition, the courts have developed a number of principles that they apply when considering whether a place is a road. These include that:
• 'public' means the public in general, and not just a section of the public
• it is not enough that the place is physically open to the public - they must be shown to be actually using it.
This assessment is made by the courts on a case-by-case basis and is dependant on the facts of each case. Therefore, it is not possible to give a simple 'yes' or 'no' in answer to the question, 'Is this place a road?'.


Skyyrder

[rwh]

The issue of different 'classes' of road being equal scares me a bit. Most of the discussion here has been about T intersections, where both cars are turning - so both are going relatively slowly, and there's time to avoid someone who gets it wrong.

But the right-hand rule also applies to uncontrolled intersections where both vehicles are going straight through. So barrelling along a state highway that has trees on the sides at 100km/h is somewhat risky - what happens if someone comes through from the right, on a little gravel rural backroad that happens to cross the highway?

I guess many of these are actually controlled, but there are probably some that aren't? Especially if it's two opposed driveways ...

Richard

[Burtha]

Well, this is a learning experience. I guess I'd never thought about it before because most main driveways are giveways as mentioned earlier... has got me thinking now.

[silver55]

A good rule/law should be simple to understand and simple in it's operation. This one isn't, which is clearly demonstrated by the large number of us who have got this wrong, and admitted to it, in the past. That would include me.

When chatting with visitors I have yet to meet a single one who thinks this particular rule (and the "give way when turning left to traffic turning right for that matter) is logical, safer and better than the rule they have in their own country. And, OK, I sure haven't met visitors from every overseas country. Similarly, when driving/riding abroad I find that their give way rules are a heap more sensible than ours..again I haven't been everywhere!

Are we the only country in the world with this particular rule? If it's so good why isn't it virtually universal?

Also, this business of having the ROW when turning right out of a supermarket etc. quite often doesn't work in the real world of traffic. For instance, I'm turning right out of the supermarket, there's a chap turning right into the supermarket...so he gives way to me...BUT, there's traffic coming towards him on the "main" road, and, as happens locally, he's moved closer to the centre of the road which enables traffic, moving in the same direction as himself, to pass him on his left. This means I can't make my right turn, otherwise I'm going to be collected by this passing traffic. So, I sit there unable to pull out, and he sits there giving way, even though he might well be able to make the right turn without any problem with oncoming vehicles. It requires more judgement, from me, to cross one lane of traffic and at the same time ensure that there's a sufficient gap to move into in the far lane. For the chap waiting to turn into the market all he has to do is cross the one lane.

OK, rant over, sorry.

[Max Preload]

A good rule/law should be simple to understand and simple in it's operation. This one isn't, which is clearly demonstrated by the large number of us who have got this wrong, and admitted to it, in the past. That would include me.

That's quite ridiculous. It's very easy to understand the rule if you're taught the rule itself it instead of being shown only what happens at specific intersections in pretty pictures for you to memorise and regurgitate once and can then forget for 55 years. I was taught the and I've never had any problem with applying the rule at any intersection. It's quite intuitive if you make the effort to LEARN it.

[nobikeyet]

I have wondered about this for years so I sent an email off to NZ TRANSPORT ASSOCIATION. here is their reply. Hope this helps.

Where a driveway is used by a commercial development or similar and the public are invited to enter (e.g. a driveway into a supermarket car park) it is suggested the driveway becomes a road for the purposes of the Land Transport Act and rules made under it. The road code comment in relation to giving way to vehicles travelling along the road is meant to cover those vehicles (which include cycles) which are not entering or leaving the driveway. The normal giving way rules that apply at intersections should be used at driveways.


The following advice has previously been given to members of the public seeking advice on this issue.


"The road rules do not give drivers right of way but rather indicate who should give way. Just because someone should give way to you does not mean you have an absolute right to proceed.


With many driveways the width tends to impose different rules to those covered by the rules. For example, if a vehicle is occupying the full width of driveway the vehicle trying to enter clearly cannot do so until the other vehicle has moved. The question of who gives way to who is thus decided by other means than the normal giving way rules.


The other issue arises in defining a driveway. Many large car park entrances look like a full intersection and, unless they have some form of sign or signal control, it is logical to treat them as the intersection they look like. Where a driveway is less clearly defined but is still one used for public access there is a legal view that the driveway is effectively a road, the point where it meets the road an intersection and the normal rules of the road then apply.


However, just because the other driver should give way does not mean you should assume they will and it is often wiser to allow the other party to proceed rather than risk a collision. The Courts in reaching a decision of driver fault on any case would take into account the circumstances and whether each party behaved as would a normal, prudent driver."

[PeteNZ]

The kiwi give way rule requires you as a driver not only to see your own signs and road markings BUT ALSO the other drivers' signs and markings!! To know whether to give way at the intersection you have to know if the other driver has a sign and what it says FFS!! From the wrong side of the sign..And that's at night too.. And in the rain. The current rule is totally moronic for that reason alone. The safety aspects mentioned above like indicators left on, forgetting to indicate are the cherries on top. These all simply wouldn't be a factor if we adopted the rule followed by the rest of the sane world. Some one tooted at me today for pulling out of an uncontrolled supermarket entrance when they indicated their turn. .. I honestly felt like smacking them. I really believe the self-righteousness attitude in the kiwi driver/rider has been bred from this give way rule.

[Max Preload]

The kiwi give way rule requires you as a driver not only to see your own signs and road markings BUT ALSO the other drivers' signs and markings!! To know whether to give way at the intersection you have to know if the other driver has a sign and what it says FFS!! From the wrong side of the sign..And that's at night too.. And in the rain. The current rule is totally moronic for that reason alone. The safety aspects mentioned above like indicators left on, forgetting to indicate are the cherries on top. These all simply wouldn't be a factor if we adopted the rule followed by the rest of the sane world. Some one tooted at me today for pulling out of an uncontrolled supermarket entrance when they indicated their turn. .. I honestly felt like smacking them. I really believe the self-righteousness attitude in the kiwi driver/rider has been bred from this give way rule.

Clearly you're another who shouldn't have a licence. STOP signs are hexagonal, GIVE WAY signs are triangular. STOP limit lines are yellow, GIVE WAY limit lines are white. It is really that hard to actually THINK when you're riding or driving?

[rwh]

Clearly you're another who shouldn't have a licence. STOP signs are hexagonal, GIVE WAY signs are triangular. STOP limit lines are yellow, GIVE WAY limit lines are white. It is really that hard to actually THINK when you're riding or driving?

That doesn't change the fact that none of the signs are designed to be particularly visible from the 'wrong' side - either by their material/colour etc, or by their placing. They're there for the person coming up that road, and yet assumed to be known somehow by the person on the other. And the lines are not always present (worn off, new seal, dirt road, driveways etc).

Richard

[Max Preload]

That doesn't change the fact that none of the signs are designed to be particularly visible from the 'wrong' side - either by their material/colour etc, or by their placing. They're there for the person coming up that road, and yet assumed to be known somehow by the person on the other. And the lines are not always present (worn off, new seal, dirt road, driveways etc).

Oh dear god. Is this what NZ has become? A bunch of unthinking droobs who want every thought handed to them? I guess with the recent flurry of roundabouts beng replaced by traffic lights and uncontrolled intersections being sign posted with GIVE WAY's, then the answer is most likely YES. It's a shame because no system is going to be perfect, but the one we have is pretty damned good.

I've yet to encounter the scenario where there is no visible sign or limit line. Next time you see an intersection like this, please snap a shot and post it.

[rwh]

I've yet to encounter the scenario where there is no visible sign or limit line. Next time you see an intersection like this, please snap a shot and post it.

Well, you're asking for evidence of things I haven't claimed - the claim is that the signs aren't always easy to see, not that they're completely invisible or hidden.

Here are a few snaps - yes, you can probably work out what the story is in most cases, but my claim is that it isn't always immediately obvious from all angles.

Richard

[BiK3RChiK]

my common sense tells me person on the road goes in first. I have assummed for years that because vehicle turning in , she/he should go first to get out of flow of traffic. Could be holding up traffic behind him/her. Person coming out of driveway isnt in the flow of traffic.

So it appears i have failed common sense chip.

Yeah, and then when you turn right out of the entrance/side street, you would be turning into a lane with traffic in it coming around the left hand side of the vehicle waiting to turn in! What a stupid law!

[BiK3RChiK]

I disagree

My understanding is that the signs are irrelevant it is the lines on the Road that count. this makes sense as the signs can be knocked down or vandalised but that does not change there effectiveness.
The lines I refer to are the double white (give way) or double yellow (stop) lines as you approach and intersection.

Well, I disagree...

Double yellow lines and double white lines are being replaced with SINGLE Yellow and SINGLE White lines to conform to International standards. The important thing which tells you it is a Give Way is there is a triangle on the road along with either a double or single white line and a Give Way Sign. Sometimes, the words 'GIVE WAY' may be painted on the road also. A Stop intersection will have either a double or single yellow line and usually the words STOP written on the road and on a Sign.

All in all, a very confusing mix!

[BiK3RChiK]

But the right-hand rule also applies to uncontrolled intersections where both vehicles are going straight through. So barrelling along a state highway that has trees on the sides at 100km/h is somewhat risky - what happens if someone comes through from the right, on a little gravel rural backroad that happens to cross the highway?

I guess many of these are actually controlled, but there are probably some that aren't? Especially if it's two opposed driveways ...

Richard

I would be absolutely amazed if on a main highway, where a side-road intersects it, that the side road wasn't a controlled intersection! And, if not, then surely, anyone exiting the side road would exercise common sense. However, if both vehicles on the Main road were going STRAIGHT THROUGH as you stated, then they would have right of way in any case. It's only turning traffic that has to give way.

[davebullet]

There should be an IQ test for driving a 1 tonne killing machine.

I honestly believe someone can be too dumb to drive.