Pakeha world views?

[Oscar]

Maori were relitively clean as against an unwashed sailor.


Nope but many years back when I worked and socialised (Sunday rugby etc)with maori this is what I was told. There have been other occasions when this description has been confirmed.

I think you would find it nigh on impossible to confirm this due to the now general acceptance of the word. Many kiwi's do not find the word objectionable that's their choice..........just not mine.

There are other interpetations of the word's meaning but they all have to do with pigs.


Skyryder

There are plenty of theories on origin of the word, but general agreement on what the word means now. If it has no proven direct translation, and it is general usage, I don't see the problem - if it isn't a Maori word, it seems reasonable to accept it as an early example of NZ English dialect.

There are plenty of English words in common use that have dodgy provenance and people don't get excited about those - this seems to be an instance where people are looking for a reason to be offended.

[Oscar]

Problem is - I doubt we could find one system that suites all of us. In my view the normal European/British rule or system is classist, racist and inflexible of minority groups. But I'm yet to find a better one.

Jeez, that's a big call.
Have you been to Britain lately?
It's more culturally diverse and probably more accepting of those cultures than NZ.

[Big Dave]

Posting this Extract from 'The Confusing Country' By Douglas Adams because I relate to the 'stopped being Europeans'.

If It was applicable Pakeha would grate accordingly.

---------------

The last confusing thing about Australia is the inhabitants. First, a short history: Some time around 40,000 years ago, some people arrived in boats from the north. They ate all the available food, and lot of them died. The ones that survived learned respect for the balance of nature, man’s proper place in the scheme of things, and spiders. They settled in, and spent a lot of the intervening time making up strange stories.

Then, around 200 years ago, Europeans arrived in boats from the north. More accurately, European convicts were sent, with a few deranged and stupid people in charge. They tried to plant their crops in Autumn (failing to take account of the reversal of the seasons when moving from the top half of the planet to the bottom), ate all their food, and a lot of them died.

About then the sheep arrived, and have been treasured ever since. It is interesting to note here that the Europeans always consider themselves vastly superior to any other race they encounter, since they can lie, cheat, steal, and litigate (marks of a civilised culture they say) - whereas all the Aboriginals can do is happily survive being left in the middle of a vast red-hot desert, equipped with a stick.

Eventually, the new lot of people stopped being Europeans on Extended Holiday and became Australians. The changes are subtle, but deep, caused by the mind-stretching expanses of nothingness and eerie quiet, where a person can sit perfectly still and look deep inside themselves to the core of their essence, their reasons for being, and the necessity of checking inside your boots every morning for fatal surprises. They also picked up the most finely tuned sense of irony in the world, and the Aboriginal gift for making up stories. Be warned.

------------

[Skyryder]

There are plenty of theories on origin of the word, but general agreement on what the word means now. If it has no proven direct translation, and it is general usage, I don't see the problem - if it isn't a Maori word, it seems reasonable to accept it as an early example of NZ English dialect.

There are plenty of English words in common use that have dodgy provenance and people don't get excited about those - this seems to be an instance where people are looking for a reason to be offended.

True but you call a Maori a 'pakeha' and you watch the reaction.


Skyryder

[smoky]

Ahh, no au, go and find yourself an ACC45 form, if you cant i will.

Well if it is they must only ever use it with the word 'European' - as some people who are like me, are white but don't identify with European, can feel a bit better about ticking the box.
But it's only ever used with European on the forms - am I right?
And when the figures are used it will only be counted as European

[smoky]

Jeez, that's a big call.
Have you been to Britain lately?
It's more culturally diverse and probably more accepting of those cultures than NZ.

Sure did - lived there for a few years
While it is more culturally diverse (spot the Anglo Saxon) I wouldn't say the general public are more or less accepting of those cultures than here

[Blatman]

My brother and I want to conduct an experiment with mum's 10 year-old tabby cat. She's about 10 kilos. Which should we feed her first? The Diet Coke or the Mentos?

[Oscar]

True but you call a Maori a 'pakeha' and you watch the reaction.


Skyryder

Why would I?

The accepted meaning I referred to doesn't include Maori.

[Dave Lobster]

My brother and I want to conduct an experiment with mum's 10 year-old tabby cat. She's about 10 kilos. Which should we feed her first? The Diet Coke or the Mentos?

Why not try KFC and Lion Red?

[Big Dave]

Ich bin ein New Zealander, Bro.

[sidecar bob]

Well if it is they must only ever use it with the word 'European' - as some people who are like me, are white but don't identify with European, can feel a bit better about ticking the box.
But it's only ever used with European on the forms - am I right?
And when the figures are used it will only be counted as European

Auu, stink buzz bro, you got me again cuz, pehehehe.
Its a bit of a poor show though, because on the same form for Maori, it just says "Maori", not "Maori/The favoured derogatory name of choice for them by european".
Im surprised they havent held a taxpayer funded hui to have that sorted yet.

[McJim]

we were taught the names of the races at school.

Caucasian, Negroid, Mongoloid & Polynesian.

Why don't they just replace ethnicity questions with the answers above?

Many will be amused to learn that people from India, Iran, Iraq, Libya etc actually fall into the same category as British, French, Danish etc. they are causcasian.

The reason for this is that these anthropological terms relate to the identification of these races from the bones not the colour of their skin.

[Ocean1]

we were taught the names of the races at school.

Caucasian, Negroid, Mongoloid & Polynesian.

True, that's the extent of the genetic differences. Beyond those groups the difference between individuals is far greater than any suposed racial sub-groups, to the point that it's impossible to genetically distinguish them.

Why don't they just replace ethnicity questions with the answers above?

Because what they're really asking is what culture you identify with, and the lopsided resolution inherent in the usual official list demonstrates where the relative focus is.

[fire eyes]

Im surprised they havent held a taxpayer funded hui to have that sorted yet.

Great news .. we are working on it! and sending you a special invite .. cool eh!

[trump-lady]

Hi guys, Ive kinda left you to your own devices but Ive been lurking on purpose observing. This was a bit of a social experiment for a couple of things

Yes there is def a DVD that needs to be made, 30 minutes long and I do have to have 5 mins. It is on World Views and is split into 6 sections for each member in the group:

Main:Worldveiws are extremely important in shaping how and why people engage in daily relationships and activities:..."intergrate the unique knowledge and thinking of Maori and Non Maori in further understandings of potential biculturalism relationships in Aotearoa/New Zealand."

My section was actually conflicts between Maori and Non-Maori Worldviews and Examples of bi-culturalism (note no pakeha word)

So in discussions with my school group the world pakeha was used. There was discussion, as on here, very similar actually about "is there a Pakeha world view" and I decided this would be one very good one to explore

I prob coulda asked “do you think this is a conflict” but I wanted your raw reaction and that woulda been quite boring . Although looking at it now there’s some very strong views so the result prob woulda been similar.

As you are such a diverse group I wanted to use you to back up my argument that this was a conflict.... (and boy you did)

You all played nicely and the poll I think is invaluable in my presentation on conflict and changing worldviews throughout history, as are your contributions....

The other thing I noted and then played with which kinda came to me after this thread took a life of its own was an idea for my individual paper
“ World views can obstruct outcomes of problem solving “
Because:

Not one person asked me where do I stand on the topic.

Yet shouldn’t this have been the first question if in fact you wanted to help me?

I still after 215 post had very few pics. Only a few shared how to fix the video problem so this got me thinking:

When a task/question is presented to someone their world view will filter what they feel is most important to them and take precedence over any other task or request from then on.

Many of you due to your worldviews were unable to filter beyond the words Pakeha. You engaged in discussions about your worldview on the word Pakeha which is human.... You all even drew me away from the topic! Even when I was trying so hard!!!!!

Example: After a few pages I tried to pull this thread back to what I needed to be successful in my DVD presentation which was the actual ”need” of the thread. Notice I never said throughout thread on my personal opinion or voted. I even deliberately tried to move the topic away from the pakeha debate with out success. So even if this was for realz some of you might have swayed me to a position on “is there a pakeha view” but most failed to help me or hear my request to help make me successful in the DVD presentation which at the end of the day was the “need”.

The title was an issue but my needs were lost.

I think this happens a lot in social work and is a consequence of being human and having a worldview.

Anyways I have read every post, valued all your input and have been so busy reading not finished the DVD assignment yet lol. If anyone wants to see the finished project let me know...

I really do enjoy the input on these type discussions and value many (not all) of the words WVs you’ve shared.....

Cant wait for the next assignment..........