F3 Rules, what ya all reckon?

[ben444]

I like the propsed rules... but I could be a bit biased(says the guy who spent squilions on suspension, now it handles like a GP machine) . 400's are getting old but there's a heap of them out there. If a 400 could have a handling advantage and SV's have a horsepower advantage then I say that's fair, just like the 250's vs 600's in the F2. There's good racing there. I say don't complain about the other guys bike. No-one's forcing you to ride the bike you're on.

[texmo]

Understand your point but, this is quite a serious issue, and for once it would be good to see if people can stay out of shit that does not concern them and try to stay on topic, Is that possible here on KB"er

What do you think the SB forum is for? So how will these rules make it easyer to race?

[FROSTY:Me]

Before people toss viterol at me keep in mind Ive literally put EVERY spare penny and then some into building my SV --so Im NOT feathering my own nest in any way.
AS per usual MNZ have OVER FUCKING COMPLICATED IT.
In the uk theres a series Running very well and has for a few years.
Its so frigging easy.
Start of season --you wanna enter 650 twins--rock up get ya bike dynod -Its gotta make 75hp or less
Its SEALED for the season except for oil and filter
If ya have to do major work that brakes the seals then it needs to be redynod -
Basicly what this does is lets someone buy a bike -run it in then go out and race it off the showroom floor. By the same account it lets someone like SVS or gary H carry on with their bikes -provided they were under 75 hp (My bike wouldn't be eligable)
Suspension wise --I say back shock--open slather -provided it is shock only not swingarm etc
Front end --well Shaun ya gonna hate me here (again keep in mind Ive poured moonbeams into getting mine sorted with the usd setup)
My opinion is it shoud be stock externals.
Again why reinvent the wheel --Guys in the USA and UK are racing using normal forks -Why add potentially $3000 to the price of a bike build?
In a nutshell-
do what ya frigging like to the motor/exhaust --pour the national debt into it if ya want--but if it dynos up over 75hp your out before ya start.
bodywork--aftermarket glass -to save costs come crash time
rear shock---any replacement shock unit provided no mods to anything else are needed
Front end--stock looking --thats a big expense saved

[Shaun]

Texmo, Sometimes I get a little too excited

As a huge proportion of the countries F3 riders either are on here, or cruise through here, I was very curious to see what they have to say.

My rule suggestion thingy, was just that, I thought by writing another alternative/ proposed set of rules, it would help get write down to what people really do want, and what is going to work!

I obviously have an interest in how this all turns out apart from the passion of our sport, but really do not give a Rats arse about that, as there is always another Fish for the pan, apart from the fact that Club racing scene has more relaxed rules than the champs, so current converted SV's for example will still have a place to play anyway, the only people this really effects is those wishing to race the NZ champs really, as the club people cater for a lot more riders, look at the Vic scene for example, brilliant.

There is one man on this site ( It has been suggested to him) who could co-ordinate getting in touch with all F3 MNZ Licence holders, and have them put in writing what they want, and come up with the best compromise based on numbers, I bet all his exspenses for doing this would be met as well!

We'll see what happens

[MikeyG]

Get rid of F3 and have stock GN racing instead.

It will be hard changing any rules on an established class such as this, whatever happens some people will be put out.

How about like the post classics with a F3 jnr for the 400's and a F3 snr for the 650's.

[FROSTY:Me]

milkey--Ill tell ya why--Now Frosty and mark wiggley this year were on 650 twins. For various reasons putting out the same HP (fuckitt). Keeping us more than just honest were Kawa kid and stu dawe both on 400's--we were at the very front of the feild
As long as theres a Hp cap then the 400's can play untill they become extinct which Im sorry will happen unless the japs get back into decent HP 400's again.

[FROSTY:Me]

Just one question, what do they hope to acheive by creating these limits we have to reply to?

By limiting the available mods it limits the money you NEED to spend to compete.
FFS --dont you guys gettit. --limit the mods/limit the Hp--- Increase the machinerery that can compete. Nett result 400's still can play with the 650's

[ajturbo]

a fast rider can easily make a slow bike look fast.....no doubt I get the jist of what your saying....but it ain't that easy to police

this IS a good point.
on sunday RG100 lent luke (mud Boy) his 150(?) bucket and used luke's Rg50, luke was giving it heaps and having a lot of fun....... but glen was almost on luke's tail the whole time...
this is not saying that luke's Rg50 is fully worked, as glen's 150 can keep up with my bike ... (just) but how great a rider(rg100) the bugger is!!!

[ajturbo]

Before people toss viterol at me keep in mind Ive literally put EVERY spare penny and then some into building my SV --so Im NOT feathering my own nest in any way.
AS per usual MNZ have OVER FUCKING COMPLICATED IT.
In the uk theres a series Running very well and has for a few years.
Its so frigging easy.
Start of season --you wanna enter 650 twins--rock up get ya bike dynod -Its gotta make 75hp or less
Its SEALED for the season except for oil and filter
If ya have to do major work that brakes the seals then it needs to be redynod -
Basicly what this does is lets someone buy a bike -run it in then go out and race it off the showroom floor. By the same account it lets someone like SVS or gary H carry on with their bikes -provided they were under 75 hp (My bike wouldn't be eligable)
Suspension wise --I say back shock--open slather -provided it is shock only not swingarm etc
Front end --well Shaun ya gonna hate me here (again keep in mind Ive poured moonbeams into getting mine sorted with the usd setup)
My opinion is it shoud be stock externals.
Again why reinvent the wheel --Guys in the USA and UK are racing using normal forks -Why add potentially $3000 to the price of a bike build?
In a nutshell-
do what ya frigging like to the motor/exhaust --pour the national debt into it if ya want--but if it dynos up over 75hp your out before ya start.
bodywork--aftermarket glass -to save costs come crash time
rear shock---any replacement shock unit provided no mods to anything else are needed
Front end--stock looking --thats a big expense saved

frosty,... you make things sound toooooo easy

[Shaun]

As above, how simple can it be.

[FROSTY:Me]

Guys it CAN BE that simple
Heres a lil shift in thinking -a tiny one mind you.
Why not Just put a HP cap on F3 . Make it apply for 3 seasons so a bike built one year isnt gonna be defunct next year.
75 HP -BANG -not one HP more
Doesn't matter if its a 450cc 4, a 750cc air cooled 2 valve twin,a 250 two stroke or a 650 twin.--The HP limit applies. BANG
At national level-again engine sealed after dyno run
At club level--where being honest we are competing all season for a $10 tin cup -Either you have a sealed motor or you're happy to be protested for over HP -if you have over HP ALL championship points automaticly removed and bike disqualified from furthur meetings till it complies HP wise
75 is gonna mean 400s are still gonna be able to give the 650's a hard time

[Two Smoker]

Guys it CAN BE that simple
Heres a lil shift in thinking -a tiny one mind you.
Why not Just put a HP cap on F3 . Make it apply for 3 seasons so a bike built one year isnt gonna be defunct next year.
75 HP -BANG -not one HP more
Doesn't matter if its a 450cc 4, a 750cc air cooled 2 valve twin,a 250 two stroke or a 650 twin.--The HP limit applies. BANG
At national level-again engine sealed after dyno run
At club level--where being honest we are competing all season for a $10 tin cup -Either you have a sealed motor or you're happy to be protested for over HP -if you have over HP ALL championship points automaticly removed and bike disqualified from furthur meetings till it complies HP wise
75 is gonna mean 400s are still gonna be able to give the 650's a hard time

Now that is an awesome idea!!!

[Delboy]

The HP thing isnt the greatest idea. Its not hard to flatten the HP off with a few jetting tweaks or altering advance etc before the Dyno run and then later on re jetting or adjusting advance etc. Engine still sealed and those 5 or whatever hp gained back again.

These rules do make sence with a few minor tweaks.

Ironic thing is a few years ago when the SV was introduced MNZ got hold of the leading f3 riders at national level as well as a few other people to get there thoughts on how the rules should be set up. These proposed rules that are coming about now are almost identical to what the majority of us thought would be the way to go. Unfortunatly we were asked but not listened too. How unusual

[gpercivl]

No matter what rules you apply it will still come down to rider ability and how much money you have to spend so why bother changing the rules we have now and are living with.

Take the Tigcraft as an example and Steve Bridges Vee Twin a few years back, both could be argued as being ineligible for the F3 class based on the rules that frame and engines are supposed to be originally from production bikes. Steve built his frame and the Tigcraft I think is a Honda RS125 chassis. You could even argue that MX based engines are ineligible as even the manufacturers claim they're not standard production motors and won't warrant them as such (I know that's stretching it a bit).

If the proposal went thru and I wanted to go race F3 again I'd ring up my mate in USA borrow a whole lot of money from the bank and buy the Fischer with all the extras please...based on a Hyosung motor with hand built frame, ohlins suspension, light weight wheels, top of the line brakes etc. all stock standard from the original manufacturer plus performance upgrades to the motor.

Even the 75 hp rule could be abused if you had lots of money you could design a motor to have almost the full 75hp from 3000 revs onwards...wouldn't that grunt out of corners well on NZ's short tracks!

So, just to repeat myself and probably be a bit too cynical....why bother changing the rules again when we all pretty much know what we gotta do now, plus there's a whole bunch of modified bikes out there which could be ruled out (including one of mine that Logan's supposed to be riding).

Cheers, Greg

[Shaun]

Greg, I have no idea why the rules are being looked at, apart from the fact
that the F3 rules have been a very long on going toppic.

As far as I am concerned the class is working well, there is alqys going to be some one who complains that so and so's bike is better, but that is a fact of life.

If things get to serious RE the F3 rules, this will add another cost facture due to protests etc, apart from the hassle facture