Gunshop employee charged

[Big Dog]

How about car control???

After all, there's more cars than guns in NZ yet more people die from contact with cars than guns.

Make it as hard (and the penalties as harsh) to own a car as to own a gun.

The car importers might not like it when their market ran dry overnight.

Where do I sign that petition?

The major differences:
* You can't carry a concealed car.
*The primary design concept of cars is not to kill, that is the owners.
* with a Car the more you train the less probable you are to get a long list of kills.
* hunting deer is less expensive ( but equally hard) with a revolver than a skyline.
*You can't shag in a handgun.

I don't see any reason to tighten gun control but i have posted a few reasons why laws about carrying a concealed firearm are necessary.

When you have been working a **Safe** club and someone from the shallow end takes the time to bring back a shotgun for a drive by threaten because you threw him out of a club for being "excessively intoxicated" on the same day he got out of jail you can tell me otherwise. (incidentally to this day I believe his mate losing his nerve and speeding away has more to do with my not getting shot than this geniuses self control.)

[scumdog]

Where do I sign that petition?

The major differences:
* You can't carry a concealed car.
*The primary design concept of cars is not to kill, that is the owners.
* with a Car the more you train the less probable you are to get a long list of kills.
* hunting deer is less expensive ( but equally hard) with a revolver than a skyline.
*You can't shag in a handgun.

I don't see any reason to tighten gun control but i have posted a few reasons why laws about carrying a concealed firearm are necessary.

When you have been working a **Safe** club and someone from the shallow end takes the time to bring back a shotgun for a drive by threaten because you threw him out of a club for being "excessively intoxicated" on the same day he got out of jail you can tell me otherwise. (incidentally to this day I believe his mate losing his nerve and speeding away has more to do with my not getting shot than this geniuses self control.)

Counter:
NOBODY is supicious if they see you with a car.

Cars aren't designed to kill - so people are SO surprised when somebody is killed with one

With a gun - the more you train the more likely you're not going to kill anybody by 'accident'

Hardly anybody in NZ HAS a handgun (but they can 'shag' you if they do)

Tighten car control - if the tracky-wearing non-English reading F.O.B. is is then deemed incapable of legally owning a car? - then the rest of us are better off. (and there's always a bus anyway).

[Ixion]

But would that mean that all the bolts in the car would have to be stored separately to the rest of the car? Could make for long delays in going for a drive? And a major mechanic shortage.

[scumdog]

But would that mean that all the bolts in the car would have to be stored separately to the rest of the car? Could make for long delays in going for a drive? And a major mechanic shortage.

But look at the safety aspect, won't somebody PLEASE think of the childern???

[Street Gerbil]

Folks, I've listened to a lot of arguments before chipping in and here is my $0.02:
We don't want to be like USA, do we? NZ and USA are virtually antipodes. Therefore we need to do exactly opposite of what they do in USA. If Americans allow citizens to bear firearms, NZ should restrict it to crooks only. And if in USA banning firearms causes a surge of crime, by the same logic in NZ it would be just the opposite.
That's my personal opinion. Your mileage may vary.
Just one more thing: in Israel, where two thirds of the population carry firearms at all times, gun-related crimes are unheard of and (due to draconian training and re-certification requirements) gun-related accidents are rare and far between.

[Dai]

...Just one more thing: in Israel, where two thirds of the population carry firearms at all times, gun-related crimes are unheard of and (due to draconian training and re-certification requirements) gun-related accidents are rare and far between.

A similar situation exists in Switzerland where all able bodies males between the ages of 18-40 do military service and keep a fully operational and loaded assault rifle in their home. The very rifle that when they finish their obligatory service the Swiss gov gives to them as a gift.

Firearm related crimes are the lowest in the world.

I remeber visiting a jewelers shop in Interlaken and seeing the owners military rifle hanging on the wall behind the counter. Locked and loaded. I wouldnt want to try and rob that store.

[sAsLEX]

*The primary design concept of cars is not to kill, that is the owners.

Military Rifles are not designed to kill, well FMJ's aint. A wounded soldier is far more detrimental to the opposition as if they have any morals(rangers etc) it takes three people out with one bulet as two people are left carrying guttless harry.

So lets change the projectiles......

[The_Dover]

Military Rifles are not designed to kill, well FMJ's aint. A wounded soldier is far more detrimental to the opposition as if they have any morals(rangers etc) it takes three people out with one bulet as two people are left carrying guttless harry.

So lets change the projectiles......

no, ask sniper.

he was in the A.S.S. and M.X.5 (with James Bond)

a dead soldier takes up far more resources than a wounded one.

[Patrick]

It was all an accidental shooting... the arsewipe robber accidentally lived.

The gunshop dude needs to be sentenced to a lengthy sentence... of target shooting.

[Jamezo]

Sounds great doesn't it. But existing in completely different cultures. It is not nearly always feasible to transplant one country's gun policy to another.

For a start, reconsider what Fish was saying, and examine the potential logical fallacies in your assumption that low Swiss gun crime rates are the effect of widespread ownership of assault rifles.

cum hoc ergo propter hoc anyone?

For instance, the causality could be inverted, and the reason that the government lets many people own these weapons is because of the low crime rate and culture (possibly related to the direct crime-reducing effects of Switzerland's large social program?)

Indeed, there could also be no causality at all, or another factor directly behind both, or indeed, a complex network of inseparable factors. Are you going to make arguments based on what are basically guesses?

NB. Sniper, if you're reading this, this is what I meant in that post so long ago about logical inaccuracies. Interesting subject ja?

[Swoop]

Counter:
NOBODY is supicious if they see you with a car.

Cars aren't designed to kill - so people are SO surprised when somebody is killed with one

With a gun - the more you train the more likely you're not going to kill anybody by 'accident'

PLUS...
I have never seen anyone able to TXT and shoot a firearm at the same time!!! (Much safer than vehicles on that point!)

[jrandom]

cum hoc ergo propter hoc anyone?

Good chap.

Of course, the one thing that can be inferred from the Swiss situation is that widespread gun ownership and readiness don't inevitably cause a high crime rate.

Identifying the totality of contributing factors is, of course, the difficult stage. I'd suggest that socioeconomic demographics would be the place to start. Otara and Zürich are more than a world apart.

Imagine if there was a shop in Mangere selling $400 pistols to anyone with a valid driver's licence. Just imagine what would happen.

[SPman]

I would imagine that part of the effectiveness of Swiss gun control would be the 2 yrs training they have before they get to take the gun home.

Knowing most homes have a gun, with a trained operator.

And the fact they would still be under military edicts of discipline with said firearm, seeing as how they are in the territorials until they are 40.

And probably less crap gangsta videos on the box .............

[Hitcher]

cum hoc ergo propter hoc anyone?

Hmmm. Is absence of evidence evidence of absence?

[sAsLEX]

no, ask sniper.

a dead soldier takes up far more resources than a wounded one.

Umm no they dont, they dont need food or water or ammunition or medicine.

Snipers are know to shoot to wound as well, as some poor soul lying in the open screaming for help doesn't do the moral of the company very good, you seen Full Metal Jacket the movie? They use it in Saving Private Ryan as well..


But what would you know? You are quick to diss Sniper but you are what? A Suzuki crash test dummy?