NZ Roads: Criminal Negligence?

[Motu]

And tread - remember when tyres had that?.....did they or am I just dreaming again?

[Ixion]

I think it was (is) the type of tread. Modern road tyres have tread, but the grooves are those wiggly snail trail things. The old tyres (the rears anyway) had squarish tread patterns, which could flick gravel and stones out of the way. And the rib tread on things like Speedmasters made them directionally stable if the front hit gravel, they'd just flick sideways a bit.

[Biff]

However, "fit for their intended purpose" is driving or riding in a safe,prudent and law abiding fashion. Not racing.

Never quite seen the issue m'self. If you can stop in the clear hazard free length of road visible ahead, then , if you see gravel ahead, just slow down. If you can't stop in time..

So by your definition you have a legal responsibility but the local authorities and contractors don't?

The onus of responsibility is shared.

[Ixion]

Perhaps the legal responsibility is shared, but the pain is not. My responsibility to myself (and my wife etc) means that I must regard my safety as my responsibility, up to me. Not much fun crying "but I'm only half responsible" from a hospital bed.

[James Deuce]

Ah! At last,someone who has seen the real problem - it's the bikes.But you can't tell these guys they are riding the wrong bike for the condition,'cause their bike's real fast y'know.The ideal bike for NZ conditions has a 50/50 weight dist,low CG,almost upright riding position,pegs under your but and wide bars - and that doesn't mean a dirt bike,there are plenty of bikes out there set up like that.Not super fast,but not dangerous when something out of the ordinary crops up.

Took me a while to get that, but now I've done it, I'll probably end up on a chook chaser eventually.

[Ixion]

Which prompts me to ask, why don't bikes have wider bars? Some do of course, but most sporty bikes (and all those with clip ons) are quite narrow.

For almost any purpose, wider bars, within reason, will give better control.

And on road bikes, I can't see a downside to wider bars. On the track, wider bars might reduce aerodynamic efficiency, so there is some logic in keeping things as narrow as possible. . But looking at sprotsbikes, it appears that almost always the fairing with lights, indicators, mirrors etc is wider than the bars, so extending the latter should make no difference.

Obviously, there are limits.

[Dai]

Which prompts me to ask, why don't bikes have wider bars? Some do of course, but most sporty bikes (and all those with clip ons) are quite narrow.

For almost any purpose, wider bars, within reason, will give better control.

And on road bikes, I can't see a downside to wider bars. On the track, wider bars might reduce aerodynamic efficiency, so there is some logic in keeping things as narrow as possible. . But looking at sprotsbikes, it appears that almost always the fairing with lights, indicators, mirrors etc is wider than the bars, so extending the latter should make no difference.

Obviously, there are limits.

WHY?

Because Sex and Sex Appeal Sells.

Marketing will always produce what ever sells.

We all love to watch our heros in our sports and we all secretly wish we could be just like them.

In our sport it is the competition bikes.

F1 is sexy, we see our favourite riders like Rossi and co and we wish to emulate them. We buy the gear to look just like them. We buy the bikes to look just like them.

Motorbike companies are in the business of selling bike. If they can sell more bikes by making them look like our heroes models they will and this means we will buy bikes with narrow racing bars.

It may not be F1 that floats your boat but I am willing to wager that we all have someone we would love to emulate. Be it in F1, motocross, endurance, drag racing or trials.

Ixon, who have you admired in the motorcycle sports?

I bet that that admiration has led you in some way to the bike you presently ride or have ridden.

It may not even be the field of sports. How many Harley rider have seen Easy Rider? How many wish to emulate the freedom expressed in that movie.

Old bike riders. How many of you watched Steve McQueen in "The Great Escape" and wanted an old beemer or trail bike.

How many of us lately have seen "The Worlds Fastest Indian" and wished we could do something like Bert Munro?

The list goes on.

These are my personal view and in no way reflect the attitude of Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki et al.

Unless they really do and the only reason they are involved in bike racingis to sell more bikes.

Chris

[Lou Girardin]

Just by sheer co-incidence, I had two Aussies rent bikes yesterday. They went up 16 and did the Dargaville - Whangarei - Mangawhai loop, they were really impressed with the amount of road works and the way loose chip was left all over the roads. They were also very grateful for the way the road workers would wet the construction areas before they let vehicles through.
This just doesn't happen in their part of Queensland.
What is it about NZ'ers that we let Govt agencies treat us like morons?

[Motu]

They have water in Australia? I bet their road workers would love to wet the road down....but they need the water to fight fires I suppose.

[idleidolidyll]

Was it some kind of conspiracy? Did Transit NZ set me up?
Did one of you whiners figure out our ride map and set the trap?

Buggered if I know but NZ's crap roads GOT me last night on the way back to Clevedon. New tyre on the back of the Supermoto (the Pirelli Scorpion) so the usual bald trye puncture wasn't the excuse.
No, it was a CONSPIRACY I tell ya!
It was Transit NZ, some contractor who read my rant or one of YOU bastards who read my mind and booby trapped our route.

And DAMMIT! you did it well too. That cut was BIG. Yes, i did manage to get a worm into it and 3 small botles of CO2 to limp home on, but there was no way the tyre shop was gonna let me outta there riding on that tyre! Kaching! Fork over $350 for your new tyre sir, you will not be allowed to use the remaining 5mm of tread left on the 'old' one.

So I owe you bastards, I'm filling up my gas bottles and I'm gonna set the goddam flames on maximum!

[Edbear]

[COLOR=Yellow][SIZE=3][COLOR=Cyan]Was it some kind of conspiracy? Did Transit NZ set me up?
Did one of you whiners figure out our ride map and set the trap?

You learn fast...

Back on topic... The Manufacturers make what sells, as has been well pointed out. I've noticed an increase in the number of "multi-road" bikes lately so when they become as sexy as GSX-R's and R1's, etc. the manufacturers will jump on the bandwagon. It's not the manufacturers that need educating, it's the riders!

I intend to upgrade my 'F' to something like a DL1000 V-Strom or similar, just wish they were a bit better looking. HAving said that there are a few manufacturers beginning to design some good looking multi-road bikes. I love the 'F' on most roads, but plan on doing a bit of touring over the holidays and a V-Strom would be far better suited to where I want to travel.

The roading authorities should be looking at safety far more than they do rather than simply accepting the lowest quote, of course, but I'm also reminded of an old poem: "Here lies the body of William Gray, he died maintaining his right of way. He was right, dead right as he rode along, but now he's just as dead as if he was dead wrong."

Take responsibility for your own life. Fat lot of good complaining about it being the road's fault if you bin. It's still you that suffers.

[idleidolidyll]

How's this for a start.

Many here agree that it's negligent to have unmarked road works with gravel left all over a sealed road.
Many also want to point out other road defects that Transit etc may not realise are dangerous to motorbikes more than to cars (if they don't have the info they can claim the "It's not negligence" defence).

Anyway, I reckon there have been enough comments to indicate that most motorcyclists would like to see something done about this issue other than go through the tedium and burocracy of an official complaint to Transit NZ.
On that note I'll write to Transit and contact them by phone to see if we can set up some kind of feedback forum here where bikers can report road dangers and unmarked roadworks so that Transit can get onto their cases.
That way we could post the location of the danger and get Transit onto the case fairly quickly. It would also ensure that they could NOT claim that they "didn't know" that certain road conditions are dangerous to bikes.

Once in place, such a thread could become a resource for our use as we cruise the roads. It would be great if those with GPS devices could send in specific locations and lengths of unmarked roadworks and road hazards.

[jahrasti]

We should get sky cars up and running then we could moan about something completly different?

[Roj]

That is awsome. You fullas can have your sealed road arguments - I want roads like that!!!! Not supprising I liked the segment when Chalie and Ewan did the Road of Bones.

Thanks for that Sunhuntin

Cheers
R

Now they had problems with roads, great series that, watched it on DVD

[Roj]

I probably don't ride as fast as some, but my old girl will go just about anywhere on a formed road, I have been over gravel and roadworks, been through unmarked bits of gravel, the worst problems I have experienced have been deisel spills in light rain, these have made my bike twicth more than anything else. Maybe I just ride too slow...

I will agree that the quality of road building seems to have declined (this is a subjective view) and perhaps this is where those who feel something should be done should make the push, I know some older ex MOW workers, one of the things they have noted is that "modern " roading includes sealing in winter which they would never do because the roads would take to long to cure as well as they would leave a road unsealed for an extended period of time to use traffic to compact the base

BRONZ seems to be one of the few bikers lobby groups, we should support them, and if they are not good enough, get in there and work to improve the organisation rather than run it done, that way an effective lobby group can be set up, it is not numbers that count but just how squeaky the wheel is