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Thread: Distance-based road tax for all vehicles under investigation

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    What? These day's you can't get a WOF for a two stoke right?

    (Or is there a bent in rules?)

  2. #32
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    ?? Petal got one no problems last week.
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    ?? Petal got one just fine last week.
    Why do I see the letter's in the Smoking rule not lining up correctly?

  4. #34
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    Two strokes are exempt from the smoke emission thing. Cos we're special. (just as well, cos the idiot at the WoF place flooded it, and when I got it started it filled the building with smoke!. He did bitch about the noise, but I pointed out that the mufflers were standard - which they are).
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    Two strokes are exempt from the smoke emission thing. Cos we're special.
    LOL... Give it a few more years and you will really be special.

    (Actually more like in collectors items... )

  6. #36
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    The Europeans and the yanks are really smart... they have worked out that a 7.5 litre 4 stroke that emits 5% of its burnt fuel as real environmental nasties is cleaner than a 50cc two stroke that emits 15%.

    Thats the same as the europeans who think electric cars are the future...

    choice (a) burn fuel in your car - some diesels reaching 45% thermal effficiency these days..


    choice (b) burn fuel in your thermal power station, transmit it along lossy power lines, put it through a low efficiency charger into batteries made from precious metals (dug up by a big diesel digger, transported by big diesel trucks, refined in a pollutant smelter) and as long as your vehicle is "electric" you must be green eh !

    We have to teach physics in our schools again (sigh)
    David must play fair with the other kids, even the idiots.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by davereid View Post
    The Europeans and the yanks are really smart... they have worked out that a 7.5 litre 4 stroke that emits 5% of its burnt fuel as real environmental nasties is cleaner than a 50cc two stroke that emits 15%.

    Thats the same as the europeans who think electric cars are the future...

    choice (a) burn fuel in your car - some diesels reaching 45% thermal effficiency these days..


    choice (b) burn fuel in your thermal power station, transmit it along lossy power lines, put it through a low efficiency charger into batteries made from precious metals (dug up by a big diesel digger, transported by big diesel trucks, refined in a pollutant smelter) and as long as your vehicle is "electric" you must be green eh !

    We have to teach physics in our schools again (sigh)

    Yes... I now we all know what they should not do.

    Please be so kind to come up with some solutions?!?

  8. #38
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    I think the idea of an indicator of fuel economy on car that's been sold is a great start. Will help people make better decisions. Companies could benefit.

    Promoting bikes are also a good idea.

    What else are there?

  9. #39
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    What about this .... http://www.formulazero.nl/index_en.htm



    Fuel cell power 8.2 kw
    Booster power (5 sec) 28 kw
    Total electric power 60 kw (79 pk)
    Kart weight (exc. driver) 295 kg
    Acceleration (0 to 100) < 8 sec
    Topspeed > 110 km/h
    Timespan of a race on a full hydrogen tank 12 min
    Volume of produced water 700 ml

  10. #40
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    Bikes aren't fuel efficient. I get better fuel efficiency from my Renault than I do from the Zed.

    The electric battery powered vehicle is not a goer. The vehicle needs to generate its own motive force to be regarded as heading toward an efficient vehicle model. Hybrids are also a crock of shit. If the combo in a hybrid vehicle has a small diesel plus electric motors then I would take the manufacturers claims to be building fuel efficient hybrids a little more seriously.

    The fuel consumption figures for a Prius are no better than for an Echo, and under no circumstances should you compare the fuel efficiency of the two Toyota models mentioned to a diesel VW Polo. It's just embarrassing for Toyota. Add to that the amount of resource that goes into making a Prius and then having to dispose of all the heavy metals that go into the electricity generation and storage process and you've got a vehicle that does more damage to the environment than Ford F1500.

    Honda saw the writing on the wall with their hybrids almost as soon as they sold them and bought them back a year after release and broke them up.
    Last edited by James Deuce; 31st December 2006 at 16:48.
    If a man is alone in the woods and there isn't a woke Hollywood around to call him racist, is he still white?



  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by degrom View Post
    What about this .... http://www.formulazero.nl/index_en.htm



    Fuel cell power 8.2 kw
    Booster power (5 sec) 28 kw
    Total electric power 60 kw (79 pk)
    Kart weight (exc. driver) 295 kg
    Acceleration (0 to 100) < 8 sec
    Topspeed > 110 km/h
    Timespan of a race on a full hydrogen tank 12 min
    Volume of produced water 700 ml
    Gaaah!

    How many times do we have to say it?

    Fuel cells are full of pollutants and cost a fortune to make. Remember that bay in Japan where the local population went mental and died young and produced deformed children because of the mercury in the fish? That'll be nothing compared to what happens to local populations in China when they start making "cheap" fuel cells there.

    Don't start down the Hydrogen powered vehicle route either. Ignoring the big bang that would result from a fuel cell failure, it takes as much energy to separate Hydrogen from water as you get out of it. Add to that the distribution network and the hassle of dealing with liquid hydrogen, and you have a net loss in energy.
    If a man is alone in the woods and there isn't a woke Hollywood around to call him racist, is he still white?



  12. #42
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    The internal combustion engine is the way to go. All we need to do is change the fuel. Modern diesels are super efficient, and will run on virtually any vegetable oil. And if sugars are fermented and distilled the petrol engine has a future too.

    So in effect internal combustion engines will be solar powered - the sun shines, photo synthesis creates a plant - absorbing C02 on the way. Then its turned into fuel, burnt, releasing only the C02 that was absorbed in the first place.

    The catch is, we have to over-run a sunny, wet, country, kill all the natives off cos they are growing food in OUR fuel paddocks, and plant lots of rape seed.

    Or maybe we just keep on putting the price of gas up. Then we will choose more fuel efficient vehicles.

    As you comment lots of bikes are not fuel efficient - they are designed for performance. But as demand for fuel efficiency grows, manufacturers will make bikes better.

    Even now, your choice of bike gives you a lot of options - lots of twins like the HD 883 sporty or the Kawka 6F give 55-65 mpg no probs, making them the fuel useage equivalent of a Hybrid, but much cheaper to manufacture and dispose of, not to mention parking / congestion / etc etc etc.
    David must play fair with the other kids, even the idiots.

  13. #43
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    Crikey davereid, I hope Hitcher doesn't cotton on to your post.

    He'll give the reasons why better than me, but using for instance, rape seed to make compression spirits will create its own ecological issues. Somewhere like NZ just doesn't have the space, the climate, or the soil nutrients to grow its own fuel.
    If a man is alone in the woods and there isn't a woke Hollywood around to call him racist, is he still white?



  14. #44
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    Are we completely incapable of coming up with an answer that doesn't harm the environment in some way?

    No?

    Oh well. Thats it, we're doomed.
    My daughter telling me like it is:
    "There is an old man in your face daddy!"

  15. #45
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    well I am against distance based tax if its a flat rate.

    However if it takes into account the distance and the weight of the car / bike / truck then I might support it, as it is the weight that is mainly responsible for destroying the road surfaces.
    newbie since August 2004....
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