Graeme William Burton in custody

[James Deuce]

ROFL. Jesus motherfucking Christ. The system failed him, did it? I suppose someone had to say that at some point.

The only thing proven by Burton's release and subsequent rampage is that there really is such a thing as 'evil'. I haven't seen the slightest suggestion that he was in any way mentally impaired.

Drug enhanced more like.

[jrandom]

The dude tried to break the lock open with a jimmy bar and then came into the house. I was home with Heather and fight or flight took over, and I launched myself at the dude. He was fekking enormous. He dropped the jimmy bar and ran off when the stand connected on a back swing... You do what you can, but I don't sleep with a baseball bat next to the bed or anything.

What a thoroughly awful thing to have had to deal with.

Your lack of subsequent paranoia is commendable.

[yungatart]

So now they have amputated his leg..pushed some poor old guy in desperate need of a hip replacement out of his bed, to do it no doubt. Not only do I pay for his legal aid, trial expenses, incarceration.. but now through ACC, I will contribute to a permanent disability payout for the rest of his natural also.... while kids born with a disability get sweet f a and schools suffer lack of funding to employ teacher aides....
Seems all fair and just to me.. NOT!

[Squeak the Rat]

His shooting shouldn't be covered by ACC - it wasn't an accident. Instead he should be forced to do some meaningless work for his existence. No leg? We'll give you 5 cents for every time you kick that waist high red circle on the wall. No kick no eat.

[spudchucka]

My point is, why could three cops not subdue one man?
But let's not rehash this all over again.

If you had been there you would know why, if you had the opportunity to speak to some of the people that were there you might understand but I'm not going to waste my time trying to explain it to you.

[Lou Girardin]

Why though did they back off in the first place it has to be asked? They where going after a armed and dangerous criminal and decided after retreating that he was dangerous?And why did they only have their pistols and not the bushmasters they had in the car?

I think their instructions are to back-off and contain. Perhaps they didn't have time to get the rifles unlocked?

[Lou Girardin]

If the cops (not the 18 years old ones - but the real old grumpy ones like Scumdog) were given proper firearms they could of got a head shot.

Yeah that's right, a couple of cops who've never fired a shot in anger are confronted by a maniac with a shotgun, so they set up their MP5 with laser sight and tripod, get a sight picture, take 2 deep breaths and let out part of the third and then take a head shot.
Riiiight!

[sAsLEX]

Too heavy and awkward for close combat. The Glock by itself will do fine. Just add bullets.

WE use shotguns for close in work, pistol grip ones though....

I think their instructions are to back-off and contain. Perhaps they didn't have time to get the rifles unlocked?

Interesting way to deal with a crazy. Maybe there SoPs need looking at.

Do they not have a bird down there? I mean up here they could of easily found the guy with the FLIC on the Eagle.... it does have one doesn't it?

Yeah that's right, a couple of cops who've never fired a shot in anger are confronted by a maniac with a shotgun, so they set up their MP5 with laser sight and tripod, get a sight picture, take 2 deep breaths and let out part of the third and then take a head shot.
Riiiight!

ummm MP5 are close in weapon so doubt you would use a tripod with them....

[Finn]

WE use shotguns for close in work, pistol grip ones though....

In Albany?

[sAsLEX]

In Albany?

Nah in G Field.

[Finn]

Yeah that's right, a couple of cops who've never fired a shot in anger are confronted by a maniac with a shotgun, so they set up their MP5 with laser sight and tripod, get a sight picture, take 2 deep breaths and let out part of the third and then take a head shot.
Riiiight!

Well they give them patrol cars and look how responsible they are with those.

[RT527]

What a shame. He lost his leg. Is that enough for you?

In my opinion,....They threw away the wrong part...

[RT527]

ummm MP5 are close in weapon so doubt you would use a tripod with them....

Yup and they are also a Bloody sight more accurate than a glock at 25 metres .


Cartridge 9 × 19 mm Luger
Action Roller-delayed blowback, closed bolt
Rate of fire 800 round/min
Muzzle velocity 270 m/s (886 ft/s)
Effective range 200 m (219 yd)
Feed system 15- or 30-round detachable box magazine
Sights Rear: rotary diopter; front: tritium hooded post.

[jrandom]

Yup and they are also a Bloody sight more accurate than a glock at 25 metres...

They fire the same cartridge, you know. But yes, to all accounts the MP5 is just fine out to 100m.

Muzzle velocity 270 m/s (886 ft/s)

That's gotta be wrong. NATO standard 9x19 has a 115 grain bullet going at > 1,200fps from a pistol barrel, and I'd expect the cops to be using +P (overpressure) JHP (expanding hollowpoint) loads which would travel even faster.

A single 9mm hit resulting in leg amputation is somewhat beyond the usual reported experience, though. I know of a guy who shot himself in the femur with a .44 Magnum during a CAS match. He walks a bit funny now, but it was hardly an amputation situation.

Hmm.

Note to self: Link to this story on glocktalk.com. Troll as many .45 maniacs as possible by pointing out that it's a good thing the cops didn't shoot him with a .45; if a 9mm can take off his leg, undoubtedly a .45 would have blown his entire body apart and left a nasty mess on the hillside.

[davereid]

Swat in the USA use Bushmasters or similar. But non specialists use pump action shot guns, not because they are a better weapon, but because at close range they are better than a handgun or sawn off shotty. Maybe, given the amount of time our cops spend on firearm training, we should have got them Shotguns for the GD lads.

It just seems to me, that a handgun is selected because its easy to carry. So for a generally unarmed police force, its the wrong gun. If they need arming, they need a weapon that is effective, easy to use, and if you get it wrong not going to be killing bystanders 2km away.

I'm sure if the cops in this case DID NOT have access to handguns, they would have taken the Bushmasters. That would have given us a better outcome. But better again would have been a 12ga pump action !