Bloody cyclists

[Wolf]

Forkoil, I do not condone people throwing things at, or passing too close to, cyclists - or any other vehicle, for that matter.

I also do not condone cyclists behaving irresponsibly, arrogantly and dangerously, such as blocking roads without warning, failing to move over into single file when a motor vehicle approaches from behind, turning without checking it is safe to do so or signalling intent for the mandatory 3 seconds etc.

At best, they are riding an unlicensed, unwarranted vehicle and, as you pointed out, the risks to them are great should they fall off, let alone impact with another vehicle. Surely a bit of common sense (such as is outlined in the Road Code for their safety and the safety of other road users) is in order - and many cyclists do apply the road rules and ride carefully.

At worst, they are behaving like idiots on sub-standard equipment and expecting that the driver of the motor vehicle will be able to safely stop a ton of car or 2.5 tons of SUV or several tons of 18-wheeler from 50-100km/h at a moment's notice.

The "peleton" I encountered had no pace cars, was not racing (they seemed to be meandering along the road) and was illegally riding up to 6-abreast. They also cut right-hand corners, crossing the centre-line, a couple of times.

None of them pulled into the side of the road to let me past, forcing me to slow to "Sunday Stroll" speed until I could find a place with sufficient visibility to safely pass a large group of bush bikes.

The law, as you (a licenced road user) know, permits two-abreast cycling if the road is clear but the cyclists must shift to single file when a motor vehicle approaches. I had that drilled into me between ages 5 and 8 by various "snakes" who came to my primary schools.

From my observation of that particular group, the only theories I can come up with are:
1) none of them had sufficient knowledge of the Road Code to pass a vehicle licence exam
2) they're a pack of arrogant bastards with no respect for other (paying) road users
3) both 1 and 2

In any of those cases, they had no right to be on the road.

If they had at least shown awareness that there was a vehicle behind them wanting to pass and had pulled over to allow me to do so, I would not have had a problem - I would have passed at reduced speed and a safe distance and given them a wave as I invariably do for courteous people I encounter.

Instead, they continued illegally and arrogantly blocking the lane to the point that by the time I got past them, I felt like pulling over somewhere ahead of them and verbally abusing them when they caught up. I didn't, but I certainly felt like it.

Not all cyclists are eco-friendly wonderful people who enjoy the spirit of peacefulness of the open road and a harmonious relationship with all mankind.

I'd put this bunch in the category of eco-nazis who've never read the Road Code because they've never gone for a motor vehicle licence (evil, nasty, motor vehicles!) and spend their time travelling in groups designed to cause as much inconvenience to motor vehicle owners as they possibly can - probably cycle around putting "Gas Guzzler" stickers on car and SUV windshields in their spare time. That'd explain both the attitude I saw displayed and the lack of a pace car (evil, nasty motoir vehicle...)

[Ixion]

Cyclist HAVE to racing very often to keep racing fit. So it aint like an annual event here ......

This thread is about dishing it out to cyclist for racing more than 2 abreast, so to use your spelling I think it is the accuser who is arrogant (if thats revelant)

No. It is about dishing it out to users of the public road who ride in a dangerous and inconsiderate fashion. As we dish it out to cagers, SUV drivers, and even other motorcyclists.

I fail to see the logic that says that because a self selected group of people decide that they "need" to race very often, that somehow justifies them being exempt from both the law and the normal courtesy of life.

It is exactly this quite extraordinarily arrogant attitude that gets up peoples noses.

[forkoil]

Forkoil, I do not condone people throwing things at, or passing too close to, cyclists - or any other vehicle, for that matter.

Well Wolf, I hope that puts you in the majority here, but reading the thread can you be sure?

I also do not condone cyclists behaving irresponsibly, arrogantly and dangerously, such as blocking roads without warning, failing to move over into single file when a motor vehicle approaches from behind, turning without checking it is safe to do so or signalling intent for the mandatory 3 seconds etc.

I agree wholeheartedly, and as a group when I was cycling on training rides we always did this, but when racing thats a bit of a different kettle of fish. Racing was usually done over a circuit of country roads based around the clubhouse. Most times bunches racing would be at most two abreast, but at critical times, like when a "break" was starting, on a hill or near the finish line sometimes they would go 3-4 abreast for short periods.

At best, they are riding an unlicensed, unwarranted vehicle and, as you pointed out, the risks to them are great should they fall off, let alone impact with another vehicle. Surely a bit of common sense (such as is outlined in the Road Code for their safety and the safety of other road users) is in order - and many cyclists do apply the road rules and ride carefully.

Serious cyclists have their bikes in tip top order, they have to and to say they are unlicensed and unwarranted is a little bit irrelevant. Cyclist know the limitations of their bikes and where possible ride within them.
As a motorcyclist I do about the same, and sometimes, like 90% of people here, I exceed them until common sense returns, and so do serious cyclists, particularly when the pace goes on and they dont wanna lose!!

At worst, they are behaving like idiots on sub-standard equipment and expecting that the driver of the motor vehicle will be able to safely stop a ton of car or 2.5 tons of SUV or several tons of 18-wheeler from 50-100km/h at a moment's notice.

The "peleton" I encountered had no pace cars, was not racing (they seemed to be meandering along the road) and was illegally riding up to 6-abreast. They also cut right-hand corners, crossing the centre-line, a couple of times.

None of them pulled into the side of the road to let me past, forcing me to slow to "Sunday Stroll" speed until I could find a place with sufficient visibility to safely pass a large group of bush bikes.

The law, as you (a licenced road user) know, permits two-abreast cycling if the road is clear but the cyclists must shift to single file when a motor vehicle approaches. I had that drilled into me between ages 5 and 8 by various "snakes" who came to my primary schools.

From my observation of that particular group, the only theories I can come up with are:
1) none of them had sufficient knowledge of the Road Code to pass a vehicle licence exam
2) they're a pack of arrogant bastards with no respect for other (paying) road users
3) both 1 and 2

In any of those cases, they had no right to be on the road.

If they had at least shown awareness that there was a vehicle behind them wanting to pass and had pulled over to allow me to do so, I would not have had a problem - I would have passed at reduced speed and a safe distance and given them a wave as I invariably do for courteous people I encounter.

Instead, they continued illegally and arrogantly blocking the lane to the point that by the time I got past them, I felt like pulling over somewhere ahead of them and verbally abusing them when they caught up. I didn't, but I certainly felt like it.

Not all cyclists are eco-friendly wonderful people who enjoy the spirit of peacefulness of the open road and a harmonious relationship with all mankind.

I'd put this bunch in the category of eco-nazis who've never read the Road Code because they've never gone for a motor vehicle licence (evil, nasty, motor vehicles!) and spend their time travelling in groups designed to cause as much inconvenience to motor vehicle owners as they possibly can - probably cycle around putting "Gas Guzzler" stickers on car and SUV windshields in their spare time. That'd explain both the attitude I saw displayed and the lack of a pace car (evil, nasty motoir vehicle...)

I think you are deriving more from their behaviour than is warranted (eco nazis!!). Were you in a cage or on yer bike? If on yer bike it would have been perfectly safe and justified to have worked your way thru the bunch progressively. But I agree if they werent racing then they should have moved to at least 2 abreast.

[forkoil]

Forkoil, I do not condone people throwing things at, or passing too close to, cyclists - or any other vehicle, for that matter.

Well Wolf, I hope that puts you in the majority here, but reading the thread can you be sure?

I also do not condone cyclists behaving irresponsibly, arrogantly and dangerously, such as blocking roads without warning, failing to move over into single file when a motor vehicle approaches from behind, turning without checking it is safe to do so or signalling intent for the mandatory 3 seconds etc.

I agree wholeheartedly, and as a group when I was cycling on training rides we always did this, but when racing thats a bit of a different kettle of fish. Racing was usually done over a circuit of country roads based around the clubhouse. Most times bunches racing would be at most two abreast, but at critical times, like when a "break" was starting, on a hill or near the finish line sometimes they would go 3-4 abreast for short periods.

At best, they are riding an unlicensed, unwarranted vehicle and, as you pointed out, the risks to them are great should they fall off, let alone impact with another vehicle. Surely a bit of common sense (such as is outlined in the Road Code for their safety and the safety of other road users) is in order - and many cyclists do apply the road rules and ride carefully.

Serious cyclists have their bikes in tip top order, they have to and to say they are unlicensed and unwarranted is a little bit irrelevant. Cyclist know the limitations of their bikes and where possible ride within them.
As a motorcyclist I do about the same, and sometimes, like 90% of people here, I exceed them until common sense returns, and so do serious cyclists, particularly when the pace goes on and they dont wanna lose!!

At worst, they are behaving like idiots on sub-standard equipment
I'd put this bunch in the category of eco-nazis who've never read the Road Code

I think you are deriving more from their behaviour than is warranted (eco nazis!!). Were you in a cage or on yer bike? If on yer bike it would have been perfectly safe and justified to have worked your way thru the bunch progressively. But I agree if they werent racing then they should have moved to at least 2 abreast.

[Indiana_Jones]

The number one thing that pisses me off about cyclist is how they run red lights. They bitch and moan they want to use the roads etc, but half of the knobs just go though red lights and wonder why they get driven into.

-Indy

[Wolf]

While this is true, cycle racing is a legitimate, healthy sport, and it is not practical to close the roads that racing is done on, but most people know where these are and when the cyclists are racing.

Do we? How? Unless there is signage or a pace car, how are other road users expected to know that some club has taken it upon themselves to practise bunch riding on a public road?

I think in this case, the cyclists who are racing deserve consideration for their sport. Bunch or peleton riding is just a part of the race,

Riding fast (in excess of 150km/h) and getting the knees down on corners are all part of motorcycle racing, yet the law does not permit that sort of riding on public roads. It's not practical to close off the roads to practise and Pukekohe isn't always available to practise on... does that justify screaming around public roads in excess of 150km/h and getting your knee down on the 25km/h corners without due care and respect for other road users?

When the road is not closed or clearly marked as a race route or the peleton is not accompanied by pace vehicles and safety marshalls, it is not a race and the cyclists need to show consideration for other road users by obeying the road rules.

Else one could justify people riding motorcycles or driving cars without regard for the law or for safety as "well, you can't always find a practice track and it's not practical to close the rides every time you need to practise."

Sure, there are those on motorbikes and in cars who do exceed safety boundaries on the open road - but the law and other road users do not cut them slack for it, why should anyone accept push bikers breaking the road rules?

Are people on push bikes "better than", or privileged over, the rest of us road users?

[forkoil]

The number one thing that pisses me off about cyclist is how they run red lights. They bitch and moan they want to use the roads etc, but half of the knobs just go though red lights and wonder why they get driven into.-Indy

While in general I dont condone this, Indy's attitude is a case of treat all vehicles on the road as the same when they aint. Just like cage drivers get pissed when bikers lane split or ride to the front of queues, Indy's attitude here is equivalent in the next rung down - bikers vs cyclists. In fact a cycle going thru a red is not dangerous unless it is going flat out, its just not the same as a car or m'bike going thru. Cyclists do this when the intersection is clear, they do it the world over, and it never fails to piss other heavier road vehicle users off. But is just an advantage of being a cyclist. God dammit theres got to be some

[Indiana_Jones]

While in general I dont condone this, Indy's attitude is a case of treat all vehicles on the road as the same when they aint. Just like cage drivers get pissed when bikers lane split or ride to the front of queues, Indy's attitude here is equivalent in the next rung down - bikers vs cyclists. In fact a cycle going thru a red is not dangerous unless it is going flat out, its just not the same as a car or m'bike going thru. Cyclists do this when the intersection is clear, they do it the world over, and it never fails to piss other heavier road vehicle users off. But is just an advantage of being a cyclist. God dammit theres got to be some

A valid point, but lane splitting and running a red are 2 different things. I can't talk, I borrow the cycle lanes, my argument is that my bike looked like the one on the road

-Indy

[Jantar]

... If on yer bike it would have been perfectly safe and justified to have worked your way thru the bunch progressively. But I agree if they werent racing then they should have moved to at least 2 abreast.

What a great idea. I'll do this tomorrow evening, when the same bunch that use our local road every wednesday come along. I trust they will respect my intentions of riding my bike through the bunch rather than than trying to find a way around them.

[forkoil]

What a great idea. I'll do this tomorrow evening, when the same bunch that use our local road every wednesday come along. I trust they will respect my intentions of riding my bike through the bunch rather than than trying to find a way around them.

OK ratnaj, given that they go thru this road every Wed, you may be expecting them, so you know they are there. That they piss you off prob says more about you than them I'd say.

[Wolf]

In fact a cycle going thru a red is not dangerous unless it is going flat out, its just not the same as a car or m'bike going thru. Cyclists do this when the intersection is clear, they do it the world over, and it never fails to piss other heavier road vehicle users off. But is just an advantage of being a cyclist. God dammit theres got to be some

So, if I'm on my motorbike, or in the car with my children on board, and the intersection is clear I can proceed against the red light so long as I do so slowly? Great, and I can tell the lovely bloke writing out the ticket that it's OK because I wasn't going flat out.

(highlights are my own)

As a cyclist, it is important that you follow the road rules and guidelines. They will increase your safety when you are cycling on the road.

Safety rules for cyclists

* Cyclists must wear an approved safety helmet. Always fasten it securely, by following the manufacturer's instructions.
* It's a good idea to wear brightly coloured or reflective clothing when cycling. That way you'll be easier to see.
* Don't ride your bicycle on a footpath unless you are delivering newspapers, mail or leaflets, or there is a sign indicating it is a shared pedestrian and cycle path.
* At intersections, you must:
o follow the rules for motor vehicles, or
o get off your bicycle and walk across.
* You can only ride alongside another cyclist or moped. You must not ride alongside a car, truck or other motor vehicle.
* Always ride in single file if passing another vehicle.
* Your bicycle must not be towed by another vehicle.
* Your bicycle can only tow a trailer (one designed to be towed by a bicycle) and must not be fitted with a sidecar.
* You must not carry a pillion passenger on your bicycle unless you have a pillion seat and footrest. If you are carrying a child, the pillion seat must protect the child's legs from the wheels.
* You must not leave a bicycle blocking a footpath.
* Where there is an adequate cycle path or cycle lane, cyclists should use it.
* You must ride with lights on when it is dark (from 30 minutes after sunset until 30 minutes before sunrise).
* You must keep your bicycle in good working condition.

Hand signals for cyclists

You must give a hand signal at least three seconds before stopping or turning.

Always check to make sure your hand signals have been seen and understood.

Look well behind you to make sure there is room for you to turn, pull out or pass safely.

Just because people "do it the world over" does not make it right or legal for a push bike rider to cycle through a red light.

They must obey the same rules as the motor vehicles or get off their bike and walk across - presumably obeying appropriate cross signals on controlled intersections.

[forkoil]

So, if I'm on my motorbike, or in the car with my children on board, and the intersection is clear I can proceed against the red light so long as I do so slowly? Great, and I can tell the lovely bloke writing out the ticket that it's OK because I wasn't going flat out.
snip ...
They must obey the same rules as the motor vehicles or get off their bike and walk across - presumably obeying appropriate cross signals on controlled intersections.

Once again, equating vehicles wrt the road code seems logical, but in practise it aint, as m'cyclists we know that. Wolf, I suggest that you spend 6 months riding a bicycle thru our wonderful NZ tolerant roads before you judge cyclists, it really is quite different.

[MSTRS:Me]

Hey, forkoil...take the blinkers off. All I (and most here) was saying is that cyclists must obey the same rules that other motorists have to abide by, and in addition, are not to ride more than 2 abreast on a public road and (like any slow motorist) are not to impede the path of other road users.
Any attempt to 'justify' examples like the photo is just blowing smoke.
FFS - it's not difficult to understand.

[forkoil]

Mstrs, Cant be bothered going thru all this anymore. Just to say there are different types of vehicles on the road, each with their own inherent advantages and disadvantages. The road code is a crude blunt instrument, and as rational people we abide by the rules on the whole but not always as the conditions and practicality dictate. It aint black and white, and I say dont demonise cyclists until you've tried it yourself and see what is real, not whats in the road code...

[yungatart]

I've done some cycling in my time, as has one of my kids. I am not anti-cycling, nor anti-cyclists.
The photo in the first post clearly shows cyclists riding more than two abreast, and two cyclists are on the wrong side of the road.
This I have an issue with! It is against the law, it is bloody dangerous, and should some poor motorcyclist or cage driver hit one of them, it won't be the cyclists who are pilloried by the wider community but the poor bastard who had the misfortune to splatter them all over the road.
This road was NOT closed to the public, and in my experience of road riding/racing in HB, there would not have been a pace car, a marshall, or a sign warning of cyclists anywhere in sight!