Self-inflicted death

[hXc]

There's a cool song that makes me feel a bit better by a New Zealand band, The Rabble. Not really well known but I like them. It's called "Carry On".

KB didn't want me to upload the file. Bugger!

[Stickchick]

I can totally understand where you are coming from T.I.E. I had a mate that was celebrating the millenuim new years with my family and friends and he even seemed so happy. Everybody remembers that when he left he said goodbye, not cya or catch ya but goodbye and giving everyone a kiss and a cuddle.

In the morning some friends went around for breakfast at his place like planned and found him hanging from the door frame with a dog collar around his neck. He just slung it over the door and closed it as hard as he could to wedge the collar and just relaxed. No one knows why he just didn't stand up and too this day I still don't understand how life could have been that hard for him that he just didn't stand up.

[mikey]

He had the rope up in the basement, was standing on the chair about to kick it away when he heard a voice saying 'Matt, I have great plans for you.' Since then he has been heavily involved in church and is now representing NZ in AFL. He is probably the deciding factor for me sticking around.

he was probably so far gone that psychosis saved him, sucks like that.

As much as I wanted them to suffer thinking 'shit, why did I say that, it's my fault' after I put a gun to my head in english class in front of everyone, I wised up and thought it was best not to

they wouldn "suffer" long, especially if you shoot them first

i had the nick "columbine kid" at school.......

an as to the rest of the thread,

suicide is selfish? i think its just as selfish, if not more, telling someone not to kill themselves. if they want to die for what ever reasons, keeping them here is selfish, saving yourself some grief for a few days/months/years......... everyone is fukn me me me.

someone wants to die, let them go

[Paul in NZ]

Ok... I know stuff all about suicide other that I have known a bunch of folks that were sucessful at it and a bunch of other folks that had every right to top themselves but fought for life until the last gasp. Buggered if I know what makes someone jump either way. Suicide is a terrible thing and as others have mentioned I don't think anyone knows why it happens or a sure fire way of stopping it.

What I do know is that every now and then, I'm susceptable to a visit from the old black dog myself. When I was young and fit I'd take myself off to the mountains with my rifle and pack and walk it out of myself. Great thing about deerstalking is you need to get out of your own head to have much chance and eventually, the execise and fresh air would bring me back. I knew it was time to go home once I got a bit frightened and worried about falling down a bluff or drowning or summat. These days I take the dog for a walk or go for a paddle. But thats just me aint it and I have never attempted to take my own life. (well I did swear at Vicki once which was pretty damn stupid)

One event in my life stood out for me.

I used to rent half a big old Villa in ChCh. This surfer / poet / musician / postie dude lived in the other half. Pretty cool guy and we developed a nodding relationship, moved onto howdy and even shared a few beers.

One friday night I was heading off into town for a bit of bad behaviour on the 750 Norton Cafe racer and as I crob crob crobed down the path he was wandering back up. Chatted a bit, see ya etc and off I went. Didn't see him the rest of the weekend but his phone was ringing a lot and his car was there. Thought he was staying with his girlfriend (a nice girl). Real late sunday night there was thr rat a tat tat that ONLY comes from the steely fists of the Police making a visit you don't wanna know about! After rapidly flushing the dunny I opened to the usual, who are you, you live here, that your dog etc when the softened up and told me they were worried about **** and might have to force an entry etc.. (Phew) No worries and off to bed i went 'cos I was wrecked after a weekend of debauchery.

Headed out in the am to work on my Tiger Cub and no one about, come home and bugger me! Cops everywhere, dog nutting off, detectives, ambo, uncle tom cobbly and all plus my dear old land lady that i got on real well with. (she cut me slack on the rent I mowed the lawns and fixed the roof etc - a real sweetie, probably 80+, she used to love riding on her husbands bike when she was young). Anyway, yup! Beaned himself with a shotty!

Police did a bloody fantastic job! Cleaned up as much as the could and in actual fact it was seeing that that really changed my opinion of the force! What a drama.

His family came and got his possessions. Christ! That was bloody drama I tell you. Helped as much as i could but I was only 19 myself! Jesus what the hell did I know about why? Eventually, I carried most of it out for them!

Poor old land lady was faced with redecoration because there was a bit of a mess even with the carpets pulled up! I gave her a hand. Pulled the venitian blinds down and a dirty great gop of crainial matter landed on my face but i had to pretend it didn't as she was already majorly upset!

You know, she died not long after that. Talked to her son (lawyer but not a bad guy) and he told me I was not to be kicked out because she was so grateful i helped her but also we bother reckoned the strain of it all finally did her in! 2 families deeply wounded by one event. Unfair!

Lifes not fair and every now and then, it truely sucks but a good walk costs nothing and as this thread has shown, all of us have been there to some degree or other. Talking about it, (while walking) helps! I'm NOT kidding!

As far as teenagers go. The gap between expectation and reality is growing every day. My generation had every expectation to be better off than our parents were because thats the way it was. No longer! Mass marketting and the media industry has rammed an unsustainable dream down these kids throats and frankly, most of them would be a lot better off taking the dog for a walk that watching 'drama' on TV...

[Edbear]

As the old saying goes: you don't learn anything with your mouth open.

How to catch flies...?

[scumdog]

Ok... Police did a bloody fantastic job! Cleaned up as much as the could and in actual fact it was seeing that that really changed my opinion of the force! What a drama.

Lifes not fair and every now and then, it truely sucks but a good walk costs nothing and as this thread has shown, all of us have been there to some degree or other. Talking about it, (while walking) helps! I'm NOT kidding!

...

Thanks for the + comment about the Police job (it ain't ALL tickets).
Sometimes looking at a good body on the slab, I (in my head) just want to pummel it and scream "you bastard, there is somebody somewhere in a wheelchair that would give anything to have a fit active body like that, you had one and you wasted it, you bastard".

But too true, deerstalking is so good for the soul, you don't NEED to shoot anything, just being 'out there' is enough, it clears the head..

Too much red wine tonight and a bad day 'at work'.

[hXc]

This isn't really hXc, his big sister in fact. He shared this thread with me, and bought up a lot for me too. Been on the recieving end of a few visits from the black dog myself. Tried a few things that I shouldn't have, and (gladly) came out the other end in one piece. When you are well, you wonder how you can do that, dont want to hurt Mum, Dad, my beautiful children, but when you are feeling low enough to think about ending it all, they dont even figure.

I have seen my brother and parents suffer so much over Meeckals death, and a friend lost her partner to suicide when she was 8 months pregnant with their 5th child. I know what it can do to those left behind, but you honestly dont think of their future without u at all. You need to get away from everything that hurts you, you are so far down in a big black hole and trying to get away from the emotions that are literally drowning you that you dont have the capacity (emotionally) to even consider how any one is going to feel.

AND it is hard to ask for help! I waited 3 hours in a drs surgery for a team to come and see me to assess my mental health. When you manage to pluck up the courage to turn to someone for help only to be told that they are too busy to help you, it just increases your feelings of low self worth. They need to cut out the fucking TV ads and employ more people to help directly. None of those ads did anything for me: They didnt make me feel better, they just took funding away from where it is needed.

Good to see people bringing it out into the open though!!

[RiderInBlack]

Yesterday I went to the funeral of a 20yr old son of a close friend of mine. He hung himself last Saturday.
It has been hard for all of us that had known him as his seemed an up-beat, go-getting Lad with lots of plans for what he wanted to do in life.
He had awesome friends and, from what they said at his funeral, he was always there for them.
He had had nice girl friends. The last one was overseas and could not make the funeral, so her sister read the letter she had wrote for the funeral (fu*ken sad I tell ya).
He had great parents and extended family.
He was respected and loved by his work mates.
He had just graduated in his chosen profession two weeks earlier and had already started working in that profession (and seemed ta be enjoying it, too).
He had bought a house and was planning a trip overseas later this year.

With so much to live for ya just had ta ask:

"SO WHAT HAPPEN? Why did he take his life, with so much to live for?"

We will never know as he didn't talk ta anyone about his struggle (yet he was their for others with theirs), even though there was so many out there that would have been there for him.

Sooo Sooo Sad.

PLEASE IF YA ARE FEELING THIS WAY, PLEASE TALK TA SOMEONE THAT LESSENS.

Doug (the Rider In Black)

[judecatmad]

I didn't mean any offence Str8 jacket and you are right - I don't understand why any one would feel compelled to end it all. I just know how hard it was to help , not only my son, but 250-odd other year 10 students cope with their classmate's death. I know how helpless I felt and how hard it was to put aside my own anger towards this young person, (I had lost a grandson thru stillbirth only a couple of weeks before), to be there for these kids when they desperately needed someone. I know how angry and depressed hXc still gets over it and how he still wonders what he could have done if only he had known it was that bad for his mate.
Thats why I say, if you feel that way, find some help, talk to someone. Don't leave people behind confused, grieving and wondering for the rest of their lives, could they have done something..
It is still a tragic waste of huge potential and it saddens me so much

So much of the time tho you do feel as tho there's nobody in the world who WILL be affected by your death. It's the headspace you're in at the time. In fact, most times you feel everyone's lives will be BETTER for your absence.

It's hard to understand if you've never been in that headspace. It's dreadfully distorted thinking, but it feels so real at the time. It's a despair that is endless. There's nothing selfish about it at the time.

I'm lucky. I came through several very serious attempts (over 15 years) with no damage to my physical being. I've been well now for over 6 years and I'm glad I'm well. I had a lot of support from friends and my old employer. I also lost several friends after the last attempt (the only one people ever knew about). Not bothered about that - a friend who can't support you through the blackest time of your life is no friend at all in my book.

It is up to every depressed person to make sure they know they can talk about their issues, and to be fully confident that they won't be ridiculed or their confidence broken. Guys are especially guilty of not talking and not making their mates feel comfortable about talking.

Please everyone, if someone talks to you about this issue, you MUST listen. Even if you don't feel comfortable listening. YOU might be the only person they will talk to, for whatever reason. And listen right there and then - don't ask to talk later. Do it now. I had so many times when I was ready to talk, but there was nobody there or nobody with the time. Sometimes you are ready to talk just for a fleeting moment. It's catching that moment. You don't have to let their problems drag you down, but you must take time out to listen. It could literally be a life or death situation.

But if you have done everything you were able to (this could be 'nothing' if the person didn't express any suicidal ideation or show any outward signs of depression), there should be no guilt on your part. There's never a 'I could/should have done more' if you've done all that you were able. Some people, sad as it sounds, are just not able to be saved.

[Disco Dan]

I have thought about it before, ending my life. Not something that would get me anywhere or help me in anyway. Not to mention the distress friends and loved ones would go through (i hope).

Reached a point where I did not think I could screw my life up anymore than it was, I had run out of options and had no way of reaching the goals that I had set myself because of some bad decisions.

All it took was for me to speak to one person for me to change my mind, (actually a KB member) who to this day does not realise that they helped me. It may seem silly too some, but the brain is very complex and easily misled.

Thank you, to the un-named KB member who listened when I was at that point. Never again do I wish to go back to feeling that way. I now have a diferent perspective, new goals and above all.. hope.

I dont wish to indicate when this happened though. Was strange how no-one around me had any idea, friends/family etc, they still dont.

The thing about 'change' is that there is a 50% chance it will be a good change and 50% chance of it being a bad change. So I figure if I feel bad and down, 50% is pretty good odds to do something about it.

[scumdog]

Yesterday I went to the funeral of a 20yr old son of a close friend of mine. He hung himself last Saturday.
PLEASE IF YA ARE FEELING THIS WAY, PLEASE TALK TA SOMEONE THAT LESSENS.

Doug (the Rider In Black)

Listen to this man people, WHY oh why do they do this? (rhetorical question)

What a waste, there is ALWAYS an 'out', there IS a better option.

I too have been down the road of "If I ride my Sporty into the front of the next logging truck...." frame of mind but 'talked myself ut of it when I realised I would miss out on SO much (CB was one of those things).

Talk about it, discuss it, take time out but whatever you do, DON'T top yourself, you only have the one shot at life.

[kevfromcoro]

done an enduro.yrs ago.out of tokoroa..lost a mate in the bush....we all got lost.well the rescue team found him 12hrs latter,,,he turned up at my place. and said.to-morrow is another 24 hrs away..things will b a lot different then..and they were.2 morrow is a different day.....sure is.....very interesting thread ..this 1....do u think.bcause we are bikers ..we are a bit loose??.does this sort of thing happen in other forums?or mayebe we just speak from the heart..anyway all good stuff.we are here 4 a short time,and a long time dead

[chanceyy]

done an enduro.yrs ago.out of tokoroa..lost a mate in the bush....we all got lost.well the rescue team found him 12hrs latter,,,he turned up at my place. and said.to-morrow is another 24 hrs away..things will b a lot different then..and they were.2 morrow is a different day.....sure is.....very interesting thread ..this 1....do u think.bcause we are bikers ..we are a bit loose??.does this sort of thing happen in other forums?or mayebe we just speak from the heart..anyway all good stuff.we are here 4 a short time,and a long time dead

well said there mate..

well from all the threads posted we can say that it appears to be all ppl from all walks of life

that black hole can suck ppl into its depths & those who have fought it (& still fight it) you show incredible strength, & courage to face that particular demon, and come out on top .. kudos to you all ..

even though this is an old thread that has been brought to life again its such a part of some ppls lives that this thread will never die cause its a daily struggle for a lot of ppl

which is why this thread http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=45864 is such a great way to bring it out in the open & take the opportunity to remember those who have lost the fight

[candor]

The majority of people statistically have had fleeting suicidal thoughts, some are just more vulnerable at particular times in life to get in their grip and follow through.

Have nursed (nearly) trillions of suicidal people. All came right, the majority within weeks, small numbers only within months.

Something like 98% meds will have great effect - the rest are treatable with a few shock treatments. Stress and/or depression are totally treatable if they are the cause, as is usual.

Some are suicidal thru valid guilt/shame too - trickier.

Only one didn't make it that I heard of and that was just cos he did a bolt from the ward during admitting procedures when he oughta been better monitored and unfortunately acted fast.

So I just have 2 things to say.

Everyone (no exceptions) can get back to feeling fine with support.

I only had one patient I thought had such a bad life and hopeless prognosis it might just be compassionate to give her a curtain cord and turn my back for 5 minutes - having been her siamese twin (special nurse) and life support machine therefore for months. But guess what - she came right and loves life now !

Advice 1 - if there is a prospect you could be heading for an attempt make a rule that you will get help. If no-one you know will deal with it ok then phone lifeline, samaritans, priest, mental health service or the hospital and ask for psyc emergency - or even go in to A and E and ask for help.

The rationale for getting help is that you may just be beyond helping yourself - don't risk it, and also realise
there is zero shame in getting help. No main is an Island.

Advice 2 - if not suicidal, realise that anyone you have dealings with just could be, especially the class clown. So guard your mouth. As your Mum might say - if you have nothing nice to say then don't say anything at all. And if you are the type to be sunny and instill hope -even to build people up by praising their good points, do it!

Also if you want to go the extra step practise the golden rule of 'do unto others as you'd have done unto yourself'. It can take only small things to knock some people over - people you'd never imagine were in turmoil. And small kindnesses can pick people up too.

People guilty of bad known or unknown things can also suicide. So if you know or suspect your family member or even someone else has done a big wrong can be best not to rub it in or torment them with hints or blackmail. But do try to get them to admit what they did to you or a priest or the cops or the victim as it will be less of a burden on them then.

Good words to hear to offer hope to a bastard are 'the incident's don't define you, you are more than that.' And 'thats pretty self centred to dwell on your guilt all the time when you could be doing something positive'.

And 'you have no right to judge yourself like that, any wrongs or achievements in your life for that matter you are not 100% responsible for, the credit must be shared with everyone who has had input in to moulding the individual you are today (or were then) and if you believe in it also with your god / higher power'.
- That is an AA type wisdom that I happen to believe in.

"He whakaaro pai ki nga tangata katoa" Keep thoughts pure toward others. And even better if you want to have every chance of preventing a suicide - ATTEND. When someone talks listen for hints, and don't ignore subtle clues - calmly check out any clues hey drop by offering a listening ear or response rather than ignoring or moving right along. If you don't click till later make a point of checking out if it was a problen hinted at or picked up by you.
"Are you alright" can produce some very interesting responses from people who appear to be running the country ok!

Personally I only support suicide for people in bad pain or no quality of life and no chance of it improving. Depression is not a diagnosis covered by that. Tho I really wish I could have helped my nana SUFFERING alzheimers with one of those pills they give soldiers when she asked me during some windows of clarity. Her life should have been cut 3 years short, right when she pleaded with me and said 'you wouldn't let a dog go thru this'. She was right, I still feel guilty I did not do it somehow. She deserved better.

[Big Dog]

I have to admit I have thought about it more than once and more than a little seriously.
For me the black dog only comes out to play when things are going really well.
Kind of, so this is as good as it gets? What a waste of time.
For me when things are going badly no matter how twisted and bitter I do not feel depressed because life can only get better and nothing I can do could possibly make it worse.

Back against the wall I HAVE to prove the knockers wrong.

Going well, the joke that seemed so funny last week might make me feel like doing something stupid this week.

When the black dog is taking me for a walk it could be something as small as praise not received when I felt it due can stew for days leaving me empty and angry.

The delicious irony most people perceive me as more fun when the dog is walking me and more stern when I am walking the dog.


I have struggled with depression in some form or other for most of my life. Part of me wants counceling and a medical label. Most of me would rather not have another fucking label on an already complicated life.

I never think to my self "I should kill my self".
I do sometimes think to myself "it would be easier if I removed the humans from my existence". After a few maudeline thoughts it seems the most efficient way to balance the equation is to remove me from it.
So far the big black dog has taken me many places I never wanted to go, but most of the time I take her places and she has yet to slip the collar.

It is not enough to be available and with an eye out for those getting pulled along by their own black dogs. We also need to think before we speak.

No one person here can be the person who caused another's suicide.
No one person here can feel responsible for the actions of someone who makes a choice of the own free will.
But as a community we owe it to ourselves to get rid of our incessant need to make others feel bad about themselves so that we can get ahead.

Here's to keeping our respective dogs on our respective leads and being willing to walk someone else's dog when they just can't.