Depression...

[ManDownUnder]

Really interesting feedback MDU, about survival mechanisms - so thats probably where that unfeeling "harden up "approach has probably come from??
and yet its probably more of a contradiction when you think about it. Maybe
hardening up helps someone EXIST but not actually LIVE. (if that makes sense)

I wonder if there is actually anyone that can say they have benefited (in the long run) by "hardening up".......

I'd say quite a lot do. Going out on a limb here but the alternative is to attempt to deal with the situation on the day which would see (again - generalisations)
1) Soldiers being scared, and refusing to fight
2) Other coping strategies being pulled into play in greater numbers (drugs, alcohol etc)
3) In my personal situation, my father and I would have been reduced to emotional rubble requiring daily/intimate support from an external agency (like who?? CYFS? The mental health system? They're both overloaded and of questionable ability anyway - I know they do their best, but the work is hard, and hellishly complex)

I'm sure the ability to "just survive" is a pretty fundamental one. Put survival first, deal with how you feel after that.

To me it only stresses the need to ID the real cause of depression (transient or clinical) and deal with that when the time is right. Otherwise things are only being set up for future repeat episodes.

[Ixion]

Consider a situation like 9/11. The best odds for survival are with the person who is emotionally detached.

And our mental processes were forged a million years ago when our ancestors were faced with 9/11 type situations every week.

Same with the military. In battle things happen that are so emotionally devastating that "giving in" (note - the quote marks) to emotion is counter survival. Best mate just had his legs blown off ? Pity. Nothing you can do for him. Leave him. Move on. Little girl screaming, her guts ripped out? Ignore her, neither useful nor a danger. Move on.Enemy vanguard has reached the bridge over the river. Bridge is still clogged with your own fleeing troops. They must be sacrificed. Blow the bridge up. And do it all without hesitation , remorse or a second thought.

Some people find that in situations of minor danger or stress they react emotionally. But in situations of real danger they become cold and emotionally empty. Neither pity, nor horror , nor fear, register. That's hardening up.

As MDU said, the emotional payload is till there . Later, it must be defused.

[Bloody Mad Woman (BMW)]

Agree with all the above. To a degree I hardened up - in that I suppressed all emotions. Then the damn burst, you can run for so long, and if you don't face up "feel the emotions, accept, let go" then they come back and bite you in the arse even harder. The hardest thing I have done in my life was to remove all my crutches and feel the emotions - shit I couldn't even name them, and learn new coping mechanisms.

You only change your life when you are in such extreme pain. It requires you to be rigourously honest with yourself, self discipline - to keep going in the face of great adversity. Often I was just in survival mode with life so dealing with emotions then is impossible - I'm beginning to waffle.

At the moment I would say I am on a high. For no reason!! I finally had some good luck and something actually went smoothly - that was getting my new job. I'm very grateful at present. I am at peace with myself and the world, I am happy, and I have many freedoms.

I loved Youngatarts thread about her 10 wedding anniversary. It all started on very little money etc. You don't need money for love to blossom and grow. The simple things in life, picnics, riding, enjoying each other's company. It is the little things in life that matter most. No matter what age

[ManDownUnder]

Some people find that in situations of minor danger or stress they react emotionally. But in situations of real danger they become cold and emotionally empty. Neither pity, nor horror , nor fear, register. That's hardening up.

Having gone through something similar - what blew me away was when I sat down and described (in writing), in detail... and forced myself to reconstruct what had happened, was the "colour came back" into the picture... it's the only was to describe it.

I quite simply "cracked" and cried. I'll cry every time I talk about it in detail, and while it's not a skite point ("look - I can make myself cry") it's not a weakness by any means. I'm no less of a man for it. It's like the emotion got shoved into a jar and put on some shelf. No label, no nothing - I forgot it was there. It came back to haunt me like a bad smell - and when I got sick of it - I went to go check out what the smell was.

The detail that came back to me, and the emotion, was incredible. And that was after 22 years... you'd think it would have faded... a bit at least... Nope. I opened something akin to a Jack-in-a-box. The situation had been dealt with, the emotion attached to it had not. I was "unmugged" by the memory, put me into a right fucken tailspin and it's one I took 2 years to climb out of.

I say "unmugged" because the assault was like a mugging. I had clues it was coming, just no idea that light I could see was a freight train, not the kid on a bicycle I was anticipating. The bit I like is that it gave stuff back to me, rather than took it away (the "un" part of the "mugged"). It's not easy, and anyone telling you it is, is talking through their arse.

But it is so INCREDIBLY liberating and worthwhile. Take the Nike approach. Just do it

[KATWYN]

"feel the emotions, accept, let go"

Absolutely - a painful process indeed. But one where there is daylight at the end of the tunnel if one has the courage to feel the uncomfortable feelings.

Having gone through something similar - what blew me away was when I sat down and described (in writing), in detail... and forced myself to reconstruct what had happened, was the "colour came back" into the picture... it's the only was to describe it.

Another example of feeling the uncomfortable feelings.

Perhaps this emotional depression ? that someone mentioned earlier, could be the bodies way of saying "ok, theres some real negative stuff in here, its time to get rid of it otherwise I have no choice but to turn it into a physical debilitation too" .... feel the pain let it go - accept - (as BMW mentioned) .....and eventually one day soon the sun will come out??

[Busy]

One can read all the medical books, all the journals, talk to all the people but still have a confused aspect to depression.
I mentioned above depression can be mild then MDU quoted it can't. The problem with these "help" sites is most are copy and paste types and aren't from shrinks, or are from shrinks in a certain field. To them depression is either you have it or you don't, and one in five would be like: undies undies undies togs undies.
There is no off and on switch for depression, sure it can go into remission with drugs or even with the right mind set but is still there waiting for an excuse to come out.
These help sites claim "Depression is not the same as a 'moody time'." yet you talk to any shrink and most will claim depression is deep rooted and more often than not there from something in your childhood or later years, even though you don't 'suffer' until middle age. Basically if it was a on/off type 'problem' then the childhood trigger would not be associated in anyway, but it is.
If anyone here is in therapy, ask the question "how can you tell I am depressed" and I doubt many would get the same answer as there are so many forms and levels of depression. It's like that depression ad on tv, he says tell your doctor or friend, if they dont believe you tell someone else until you get someone that does (or whatever he says). Doctors are professionals, we put our lives in their hands everyday but like everyone (including me) no one is always right.

To me depression is chronic sadness which you have no control over (chronic being long lasting). Depression doesn't have to be all about negative thoughts, they can be netrual thoughts or even some positive (mood swings like as in bi polar) If anyone wants to believe it's starts and ends with a flip of a switch then good on ya, believe everything you read, say hi to santa when you see him ..

I'm probably rubbing a few noses up the wrong way with this thread, is not my intention, am not out to rule the world, or to pick on anyone or make anyone feel stupid. If I do, I apologise. Please just remember, depression has many forms, many traits, many directions, no two many are the same even though 'sufferers' get clumped into a text book category. On paper it reads well, in real life it's a whole new ball game.
Sorry for babbling on

[Macktheknife]

I think you have raised an important point Busy, and one that may not have been clear earlier. Depression is different for everyone who has to live with it. Mostly this is because it is caused by different things and affects different people in different ways. The most important thing though is to get some help with it, it is usually a bad idea to try and manage it on your own without assistance of some kind. Knowledge is power and the more you know about it the better you will be able to deal with it. This means reading, studying, and discussing with others who know what they are talking about. But it also means working out how that information applies to you and your specific circumstances, or even if it does apply at all.

[Kittyhawk]

It's not something which will go away over time.

Riding in the rain is one of those little things where you "live in the moment" and feel it fall all around you but this is how it feels inside the mind..

[Scorpygirl]

Sorry Kittyhawk that I haven't been onto this thread for a while. Hope you are OK. I am a bit down and in a lot of pain due to my accident. I am kicking myself about it.

[scumdog]

Consider a situation like 9/11. The best odds for survival are with the person who is emotionally detached.

That's how I cope with my job.

And with a bit of help from MR Alcamahol.

[Steam]

Well yea its a good place to distract the mind and talk about something passionate.....bikes!!!

Yip, that's one of the best things for me about bikes, it gives me something to do that requires all my concentration, and so uses spare brain capacity that would otherwise be used brooding and being gloomy.
For instance, today I was feeling really crap, nearly about to quit my job, contemplate the advantages of non-existance, stay in bed all weekend, and be a classic depressed recluse.
Instead I went for a ride and ended up being on the bike for three hours, I mostly forgot about being down, and went and bought some more bits for the Apocalypse Bike project, planned how to fit the Stebel Horn, etc.
The biking really snapped me out of the blues, for half a day anyway.

[Grahameeboy]

Yip, that's one of the best things for me about bikes, it gives me something to do that requires all my concentration, and so uses spare brain capacity that would otherwise be used brooding and being gloomy.
For instance, today I was feeling really crap, nearly about to quit my job, contemplate the advantages of non-existance, stay in bed all weekend, and be a classic depressed recluse.
Instead I went for a ride and ended up being on the bike for three hours, I mostly forgot about being down, and went and bought some more bits for the Apocalypse Bike project, planned how to fit the Stebel Horn, etc.
The biking really snapped me out of the blues, for half a day anyway.

Same here....can't get that feeling of absolute freedom doing much else..........

[Ixion]

I've moved some irrelevant posts to the usual place. There was nothing really wrong with them, but they weren't appropriate to this thread. Time and place and all that, want to try to keep this focused on the topic.

[Hinckley]

PM sent. Talking about it is a big help..... plus Fluox.

[Disco Dan]

on a downwards spiral towards rock bottom... its dark, but it's getting closer... society and the outside world is moving further away.... fight or flight?

EDIT:

It is interesting that only one person questioned this post. When I told him I was in fact serious and he showed compassion and outstretched his hand to me, it made me realise just how deep down the rabbit hole I have fallen.