MNZ board nominations

[BJT666]

Amen to that!

So, in response to my original question, who nominated you this time around Jim? It was a nomination requirement to advise.


Yes, Mr Scrivener it was a requirement and i am 100% sure the Voting Auditor was completely satisfied.
To be quite blant, you don't need to know

[Crasherfromwayback]

We look forward to seeing you on Saturday at the "Officials Training" in Auckland, that way you will not make incorrect posts.

Bykmad, go and sit in the corner with a dunce cap on you naughty boy. Hope you enjoy getting talked to like a 7 year old kid at "Officials Training"!!

[racer40]

Hi Spyda and others,
NZ Road Race Champs- Firstly these are just ideas and if most people dont want it it wont happen, but after talking to many people they want to see a change in format.
I think Nationals should go to a two round series, 1 in NI and 1 in the SI. Make them both big events , invite trade to set up stands for free, run a bike show, stunts etc, really turn it on and try and get a good crowd and entries, more bikes = more spectators.
The weekend after the SI round, run another meeting for those who want to stay and call the two meetings the SI champs, incorporate a club series into that meeting to get more entries, the same goes for NI rounds. The following year the NZ champs go to a different track if they want them.
There is not alot of money around so maybe no testing on the track the week prior to a points round, to save money on tyres, bike wear and tear, time of work and gives the riders who cant go testing a better chance. Maybe 4 races per round, 1 qualifing session , less laps except for TT/GP as it does look a bit boring sometimes when the feild is spread out.
Some have said people wont bother building up race bikes for two rounds but as I say NZ/NI/SI champs, 4 meetings, Tri Series ( 3), Burt Munro, Paeroa, Nelson, Greymouth plus endless club days available. I would'nt want any big events in Feb with the Classic Festival and Paeroa already on.
Anyway Road Race Commission meeting at the AGM in Palm North May 21st, I think,
so you can share your views there.
I believe Jim has done a good job with the stewards/marshalls training schemes he has set up again and would hope the dates for these in the system would continue.
PS Thanks Spyda for the kind words a few pages ago.
Chris Lawrance

[jellywrestler]

help me to decide which candidate to vote for, as im pretty much "on the fence" at the moment.
Fuck man, that's the funniest thing I've read in years, fucking years and years.
thanks for the humour....

[lostinflyz]

Hi Spyda and others,
NZ Road Race Champs- Firstly these are just ideas and if most people dont want it it wont happen, but after talking to many people they want to see a change in format.
I think Nationals should go to a two round series, 1 in NI and 1 in the SI. Make them both big events , invite trade to set up stands for free, run a bike show, stunts etc, really turn it on and try and get a good crowd and entries, more bikes = more spectators.
The weekend after the SI round, run another meeting for those who want to stay and call the two meetings the SI champs, incorporate a club series into that meeting to get more entries, the same goes for NI rounds. The following year the NZ champs go to a different track if they want them.
There is not alot of money around so maybe no testing on the track the week prior to a points round, to save money on tyres, bike wear and tear, time of work and gives the riders who cant go testing a better chance. Maybe 4 races per round, 1 qualifing session , less laps except for TT/GP as it does look a bit boring sometimes when the feild is spread out.
Some have said people wont bother building up race bikes for two rounds but as I say NZ/NI/SI champs, 4 meetings, Tri Series ( 3), Burt Munro, Paeroa, Nelson, Greymouth plus endless club days available. I would'nt want any big events in Feb with the Classic Festival and Paeroa already on.
Anyway Road Race Commission meeting at the AGM in Palm North May 21st, I think,
so you can share your views there.
I believe Jim has done a good job with the stewards/marshalls training schemes he has set up again and would hope the dates for these in the system would continue.
PS Thanks Spyda for the kind words a few pages ago.
Chris Lawrance

Thanks for your views Chris, even if i completely disagree with you

Good to hear some ideas and vision, rather than the bickering and bullshit some on here seem to be basing your platform on.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Hi Spyda and others,
NZ Road Race Champs- Firstly these are just ideas and if most people dont want it it wont happen, but after talking to many people they want to see a change in format.
I think Nationals should go to a two round series, 1 in NI and 1 in the SI. Make them both big events , invite trade to set up stands for free, run a bike show, stunts etc, really turn it on and try and get a good crowd and entries, more bikes = more spectators.
The weekend after the SI round, run another meeting for those who want to stay and call the two meetings the SI champs, incorporate a club series into that meeting to get more entries, the same goes for NI rounds. The following year the NZ champs go to a different track if they want them.
There is not alot of money around so maybe no testing on the track the week prior to a points round, to save money on tyres, bike wear and tear, time of work and gives the riders who cant go testing a better chance. Maybe 4 races per round, 1 qualifing session , less laps except for TT/GP as it does look a bit boring sometimes when the feild is spread out.
Some have said people wont bother building up race bikes for two rounds but as I say NZ/NI/SI champs, 4 meetings, Tri Series ( 3), Burt Munro, Paeroa, Nelson, Greymouth plus endless club days available. I would'nt want any big events in Feb with the Classic Festival and Paeroa already on.
Chris Lawrance

That sounds like a shit hot idea Chris.

[Biggles08]

Hi Spyda and others,
NZ Road Race Champs- Firstly these are just ideas and if most people dont want it it wont happen, but after talking to many people they want to see a change in format.
I think Nationals should go to a two round series, 1 in NI and 1 in the SI. Make them both big events , invite trade to set up stands for free, run a bike show, stunts etc, really turn it on and try and get a good crowd and entries, more bikes = more spectators.
The weekend after the SI round, run another meeting for those who want to stay and call the two meetings the SI champs, incorporate a club series into that meeting to get more entries, the same goes for NI rounds. The following year the NZ champs go to a different track if they want them.
There is not alot of money around so maybe no testing on the track the week prior to a points round, to save money on tyres, bike wear and tear, time of work and gives the riders who cant go testing a better chance. Maybe 4 races per round, 1 qualifing session , less laps except for TT/GP as it does look a bit boring sometimes when the feild is spread out.
Some have said people wont bother building up race bikes for two rounds but as I say NZ/NI/SI champs, 4 meetings, Tri Series ( 3), Burt Munro, Paeroa, Nelson, Greymouth plus endless club days available. I would'nt want any big events in Feb with the Classic Festival and Paeroa already on.
Anyway Road Race Commission meeting at the AGM in Palm North May 21st, I think,
so you can share your views there.
I believe Jim has done a good job with the stewards/marshalls training schemes he has set up again and would hope the dates for these in the system would continue.
PS Thanks Spyda for the kind words a few pages ago.
Chris Lawrance

There is some food for thought. Not sure I 100% agree with it all but as Lostinflyz said, thank you for some decent ideas.

I believe we need to ensure the Nationals remain to be seen as the 'pinnacle' of road racing in NZ and people aspire to win it. While I agree that more bikes on the field makes a better event, we do want these competitors to be at a certain level of competency to ensure the punters who come to watch are watching the 'Best in NZ compete.' I would be inclined to put forward some decent prize money to attract more riders...similar as to what happens at the street races. Maybe this is a good way to spend some of that 200k Jim has found us :yes:

my 2c

[The Chow]

There is some food for thought. Not sure I 100% agree with it all but as Lostinflyz said, thank you for some decent ideas.

I believe we need to ensure the Nationals remain to be seen as the 'pinnacle' of road racing in NZ and people aspire to win it. While I agree that more bikes on the field makes a better event, we do want these competitors to be at a certain level of competency to ensure the punters who come to watch are watching the 'Best in NZ compete.' I would be inclined to put forward some decent prize money to attract more riders...similar as to what happens at the street races. Maybe this is a good way to spend some of that 200k Jim has found us :yes:

my 2c
I'm back , ideas are good , but remember it is a national series , Not a North Island oR South Island Championship. Anyway I have poll up on our website www.nzsbk.com. Just click what you want to see as far as numbers of rounds and we will see how it goes. (Please note this not a scientific).

[Drew]

my 2c

No one is asking for your ideas Marcus. This thread is meant to be about the candidates for MNZ president. They say what they see happening, and you vote accordingly.

[Drew]

Thanks Chris for your reply. Hopefully JT can make it back with what if anything he sees changing.

[Biggles08]

No one is asking for your ideas Marcus. This thread is meant to be about the candidates for MNZ president. They say what they see happening, and you vote accordingly.

So your pulling me up for going off topic?...funny shit. as you were.

[sidecar bob]

Fuck man, that's the funniest thing I've read in years, fucking years and years.
thanks for the humour....
You may well find it amusing, but can you imagine my confusion over this pressing issue.
In light of my question remaining largely ignored, we will have to assume my version of events is pretty much spot on & therefore my mind made up.

[sidecar bob]

Yes, Mr Scrivener it was a requirement and i am 100% sure the Voting Auditor was completely satisfied.
To be quite blant, you don't need to know
Thats not very transparent.
Sweet, so the same as last time then.

[Shaun]

HAHAHA all to much, I;ve just realised this thread has made me feel not so bad about some of the shit that I have typed on here:yes:

Remember the Internet always wins

[Drew]

HAHAHA all to much, I;ve just realised this thread has made me feel not so bad about some of the shit that I have typed on here:yes:

Remember the Internet always wins

No, you should still feel as bad as you did.

If either party wishes to abstain from answering on this friggin forum I would understand totally.

I'd hope there would be some other public forum they would use instead though.

[Drew]

So your pulling me up for going off topic?...funny shit. as you were.

Fuckin oath. You spout what you want to happen to the nats all the time, and no one listens then either!

[sidecar bob]

No, you should still feel as bad as you did.

If either party wishes to abstain from answering on this friggin forum I would understand totally.


I wouldnt. What possible reason can there be for not wanting to speak the truth where everyone can see it?

[Drew]

I wouldnt. What possible reason can there be for not wanting to speak the truth where everyone can see it?

This is Kiwibiker, have you logged into the wrong site?

[Biggles08]

Fuckin oath. You spout what you want to happen to the nats all the time, and no one listens then either!

please accept my sincere apologies Drew.

[sidecar bob]

This is Kiwibiker, have you logged into the wrong site?
Oh . . . yeah, dammit, i was on Iwibiker with Tariana Pita & Hone. No lies & bickering over there!!

[Paul Searancke]

Thats not very transparent.
Sweet, so the same as last time then.

I nominated Bernard James Tuckerman for the position of President.
But like last time there could have been more than one nomination for him.

Paul Searancke
License number 9206

[budda]

Drew. The Officials Training was restarted in 2007 after a break of several years and this is a continuation of that. It is not a new policy.

May not be a new policy, but it sure as hell is a new product. Dont think I've been to one where no-one in the room didnt learn a substantial amount

[budda]

So it wasn't a new initiation from Jim? He has just finished telling us it was one of his achievements while he has been president?

Orig quote:
"We now have a comprehensive "Officials Training" programme, which i am proud to say has come about through my contacts with my counterparts in the FIM."

Was it already going prior to this term?

As one who has attended multiple sessions of BOTH regimes, I can tell you there is absolutely no comparison - the only similarity is the word "training"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[budda]

Bykmad, go and sit in the corner with a dunce cap on you naughty boy. Hope you enjoy getting talked to like a 7 year old kid at "Officials Training"!!

At least Warren is putting IN to the sport - suggest some on here try it sometime

[Crasherfromwayback]

At least Warren is putting IN to the sport - suggest some on here try it sometime

WTF are you talking about? Warren? You one of the ones JT was saying have been drinking too much?

[The Chow]

WTF are you talking about? Warren? You one of the ones JT was saying have been drinking too much?

Pete thats a laugh coming from you . Steinlager anyone Hic

[The Chow]

That sounds like a shit hot idea Chris.

pity that at the moment people want 5 rounds - see pole www.nzsbk.com

[Crasherfromwayback]

Pete thats a laugh coming from you . Steinlager anyone Hic

No Ian. Had a very civilised night...healthy dinner a just a couple of nice red wines!:innocent:

[Crasherfromwayback]

pity that at the moment people want 5 rounds - see pole www.nzsbk.com

They (the people that've voted so far) may well do. But I wonder how many of them are genuine contenders for doing said five rounds when the time comes to put your money where your mouth (or keyboard) is???

[Bykmad]

Good evening Bykmad,

The Stewards training re-started in 2007 finished in 2009 and the programme run in a limited form in 2010 is totally different


We look forward to seeing you on Saturday at the "Officials Training" in Auckland, that way you will not make incorrect posts.



BJT666 - Jim Tuckerman.

Jim.
My post was fact! Officials Training was started in the late 80's early 90's and has been evolving ever since. There was a three year period where there was not the seminars as we knew them, but that was restarted in 2007 when I became the Stewards Commissioner. I bought Andrew Roigard on as instructor and delegated the job to him. This continued until May 2009 when I resigned as Commissioner. The programme was evolving all the time as there would not be a lot of point if it didnt. You have come in, updated the content, and carried the show on. The same as a number of people before you.

Save your cheap put downs and one liners for for a more appropriate time!

[The Chow]

No Ian. Had a very civilised night...healthy dinner a just a couple of nice red wines!:innocent: Good on ya mate

[The Chow]

They (the people that've voted so far) may well do. But I wonder how many of them are genuine contenders for doing said five rounds when the time comes to put your money where your mouth (or keyboard) is???

No other way of getting an indication Pete (especially from KB ;-)) , but people always want more , more and more for less less and less. Mate how else are we suppose to find some sort of direction. We are all in this together , like it or not . Riders, clubs , Organiser , Stewards , Spectators and yes even Jim Tuckerman and MNZ. If all people want to do is have personal agendas then they should just go away (I was going to say something more in character with KB). Why do you need to change to much , you had a good series , why let three wheeler problems/personal witch hunts ruin it.

IT IS THE NATIONAL SERIES , and should travel and have the best standard competitors and those who want to do more than just club events. Club racing is fine , the winter series etc all have a place in the scheme of things.

As for the genuine questions being asked then keep it going I say. Chris you say you are for majority this and majority that , well what happens when people show they want five rounds , be the votes from Riders/Fans or what ever , are you still going to push for two rounds?

[Str8 Jacket]

Fucken hell. I am tempted not to vote for anyone.... :facepalm:

[Shaun]

No one is asking for your ideas Marcus. This thread is meant to be about the candidates for MNZ president. They say what they see happening, and you vote accordingly.


But at least he is being Pro active and actually coming up with some healthy idea;s thoughts on the subject " OUR RACING" mate

Keep at it Marcus

[Shaun]

Another thing interesting I find about this thread

A Lot of support for JT from the other current parties involved in the management of our sport, now that cannot be a bad thing, as it takes a team to get this FREE OF CHARGE WORK THEY DO DONE!!!

Good team work reaps success


Again " NOTHING AGAINST CHRIS" I like the guy

[jellywrestler]

No Ian. Had a very civilised night...healthy dinner a just a couple of nice red wines!:innocent:
Hairdressers drink Red Wine!

[jellywrestler]

If all people want to do is have personal agendas then they should just go away (I was going to say something more in character with KB)
Hey Ian I know you're still a relative newcomer to KB so understand you tip-toeing around the keyboard in this situation.
How about a gentle 'your mother swims out to troop ships' just to ease you into it?
Spyda

[Biggles08]

IT IS THE NATIONAL SERIES , and should travel and have the best standard competitors and those who want to do more than just club events. Club racing is fine , the winter series etc all have a place in the scheme of things.

Careful Ian...you will get told off for putting your own ideas forward in a thread about the contenders ideas. Drew doesn't like that :innocent:

[White trash]

What a bunch of bitches.

[sidecar bob]

Another thing interesting I find about this thread

A Lot of support for JT from the other current parties involved in the management of our sport, now that cannot be a bad thing, as it takes a team to get this FREE OF CHARGE WORK THEY DO DONE!!!

Good team work reaps success


Again " NOTHING AGAINST CHRIS" I like the guy

Agreed, one thing we cant be accused of this year is apathy.
If this thread had reached 20 posts people would be bitching that nobody cares, but at 20 pages, you can smell the passion.
Road racing is far from dead!!

[Crasherfromwayback]

What a bunch of bitches.

Shuddup ra raving Poofta.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Hairdressers drink Red Wine!

Only the good looking ones!

[scrivy]

Shuddup ra raving Poofta.

Is he really a poofter??
Sorry Trashie, no swing for you on the Busa now dude...........

[scrivy]

pity that at the moment people want 5 rounds - see pole www.nzsbk.com

Hi Ian,

You say it's not scientific, and I agree.
75% want 5 rounds?
So how many Nats riders voted on your poll? And also, how many Nats riders frequent KB or your site?

With my experience at running events, we had 30 expressions of interest from people wanting to race in a F3 endurance race at the TRRS years back. That transpired to only 8 bikes entered, (3 which were SV650's). The junior race was then canned.

I think the smartest words written on this topic to date are from Chris, where he states that a meeting must be held after conference to gauge peoples opinions of what is to happen re the Nats. Every year this is mentioned, but never happened. Now is clearly the time for this to happen. One man cannot make the decissions alone, we all know that. Only Nats riders should be able to express their opinions also, as blowhards etc don't forkout their hard earned money on the series, or machinery.

Scrivy

[scott411]

Only Nats riders should be able to express their opinions also, as blowhards etc don't forkout their hard earned money on the series, or machinery.

Scrivy


sometimes you need to look past these riders who are already racing the series, to find out why the poeple did not ride the nats, otherwise you will not get the growth, but i agree there should be a debrief very soon after the natioanls

But in the end, The president should not run the road race nationals, the road race commission does,

[BJT666]

With my experience at running events.

So that would be your experience in running the TRRS, would it.
One event and you are bagging people with a combined experience of over a 100years. Some have run more events than you have years of experience.
Only Nats riders should be able to express their opinions also, as blowhards etc don't forkout their hard earned money on the series, or machinery.

Scrivy[/QUOTE]

Based on this criteria, firstly neither yourself or Chris Lawrance could attend as neither of you have done the nationals for a number of years.
It would only allow 6 sidecar riders to attend, if they were interested

[sidecar bob]

Scrivy

Based on this criteria, firstly neither yourself or Chris Lawrance could attend as neither of you have done the nationals for a number of years.
It would only allow 6 sidecar riders to attend, if they were interested
[/QUOTE]
And you still havent answered my post as to why you caused that to happen.
There were 21 sidecars at the (entry fees for sidecars paid by Taupo Plastics, director Andy Scrivener) nationals a couple of years earlier, your apparent interference reduced that to 6.
And you suspended / revoked Chrises licence last year, so once again, dont blame Chris for not being there.

[Biggles08]

And you suspended / revoked Chrises licence last year, so once again, dont blame Chris for not being there.

What was the reason given for this?

[sidecar bob]

What was the reason given for this?
I will get Chris to answer that, lest I post less than fact.

[scrivy]

sometimes you need to look past these riders who are already racing the series, to find out why the poeple did not ride the nats, otherwise you will not get the growth, but i agree there should be a debrief very soon after the natioanls

But in the end, The president should not run the road race nationals, the road race commission does,

Absolutely agree with you Scott. As I have mentioned way way way earlier, there are not enough club riders making the step up. Maybe I should re-phrase my previous post to 'Nats willing or intending' ?

Scrivy

[scrivy]

With my experience at running events.

So that would be your experience in running the TRRS, would it.
That is correct. Fact.

One event and you are bagging people with a combined experience of over a 100years. Some have run more events than you have years of experience.
Angry rants again Jim, and whats more, unfactual.
Can you please show me where I am bagging these people in my post above?? All I stated was that expressions by individuals do not follow through to results. That's all. Don't try to imply I said anything other than that!


Based on this criteria, firstly neither yourself or Chris Lawrance could attend as neither of you have done the nationals for a number of years.
It would only allow 6 sidecar riders to attend, if they were interested
[/QUOTE]

Have I said I'm disappointed with the Nats? I'm having my fun at lots of meetings. I have been there done that, I don't need a medallion to race Jim. I have a different interest in going fast - to enjoy myself doing it.
But read my last post above - it should be Nats willing/intending..........

[BJT666]

And you still havent answered my post as to why you caused that to happen.
There were 21 sidecars at the (entry fees for sidecars paid by Taupo Plastics, director Andy Scrivener) nationals a couple of years earlier, your apparent interference reduced that to 6.

And you suspended / revoked Chrises licence last year, so once again, dont blame Chris for not being there.

Steve,
I notice when asked by Marcus to qualify your statement, you were going to get Chris to answer him so you didn't get it wrong.

Personally, I believe you need to contact your source and ask him, why he is telling lies.

I will endevour to answer Marcus's question:

Motorcycling New Zealand was advised that Mr Chris Lawrance was about to undergo major surgery (Kidney replacement). After doing some investigation, it became apparent that his condition could effect his ability to ride. Therefore under it's 'Duty of Care', MNZ put a hold on Mr Lawrance's licence and advised him he would need to supply a "Medical Certificate" before his licence would be released.

Mr Lawrance's licence was not suspended or revoked.

Mr Lawrance subsequently supplied a "Medical Certificate" and his licence was released.

[BJT666]

Absolutely agree with you Scott. As I have mentioned way way way earlier, there are not enough club riders making the step up. Maybe I should re-phrase my previous post to 'Nats willing or intending' ?

Scrivy

Morning,

The only problem with that Scrivy, as you have already identified, our 'Sport' is full of "Gunnas" (I am going to do this, I am going to do that). But when it comes down to close of entries, after the Club/MNZ etc have committed to the event, they are simply not there.

[Kevin G]

Hi Ian,

You say it's not scientific, and I agree.
75% want 5 rounds?
So how many Nats riders voted on your poll? And also, how many Nats riders frequent KB or your site?

With my experience at running events, we had 30 expressions of interest from people wanting to race in a F3 endurance race at the TRRS years back. That transpired to only 8 bikes entered, (3 which were SV650's). The junior race was then canned.

I think the smartest words written on this topic to date are from Chris, where he states that a meeting must be held after conference to gauge peoples opinions of what is to happen re the Nats. Every year this is mentioned, but never happened. Now is clearly the time for this to happen. One man cannot make the decissions alone, we all know that. Only Nats riders should be able to express their opinions also, as blowhards etc don't forkout their hard earned money on the series, or machinery.

Scrivy

Hi.
We put a riders forum together this year at the conference for riders to attend to discuss what they want and the direction they prefer.
Coachman Hotel Palmerston North Saturday 21st May at 1.30 till 3.00 pm.
This is for current licence holders only so it is just about the riders....
All attendees need to register with the office.
The road race workshop has been moved so it is after this forum so the riders can have a collective input from the forum at the workshop.
I posted this in another subject on here some months ago see http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/134327-Too-many-classes-at-National-Championship?p=1129986846#post1129986846.

Remember the commission run the sport not the president or the board, yes we have input but the final decision rests with the commission.

Kevin Goddard

[scrivy]

I will endevour to answer Marcus's question:

Motorcycling New Zealand was advised that Mr Chris Lawrance was about to undergo major surgery (Kidney replacement). After doing some investigation, it became apparent that his condition could effect his ability to ride.
Jim, it had no such affect at all!! What a load of poppycock!
Advised by who Jim? Who tried to stop Chris from racing - there is the real travesty. And what investigation? Did you ask his Doctor for confidential information? Chris's doctor never said he couldn't or shouldn't race!!

Therefore under it's 'Duty of Care', MNZ put a hold on Mr Lawrance's licence and advised him he would need to supply a "Medical Certificate" before his licence would be released.
Funny how it tied in to the same time that the NZSRA wrote a letter to MNZ regarding the Nats the previous year. And funny how it said the Board wanted a medical certificate - but it came directly from you, without a board member knowing about it!

Mr Lawrance subsequently supplied a "Medical Certificate" and his licence was released.
Again, not quite true Jim. You asked him for yet another medical clearance didn't you. Which he again supplied. Did it mention anywhere that his doctor said that it would affect his ability to ride??

Now, can you please answer Steves question. With Fact too please.

[sidecar bob]

Steve,
I notice when asked by Marcus to qualify your statement, you were going to get Chris to answer him so you didn't get it wrong.

Personally, I believe you need to contact your source and ask him, why he is telling lies.


Hes not telling lies Jim, Call it revoked, withheld, suspended, or whatever, you blame Chris for not attending the Nationals, when your personal decision was the very reason he was not avaliable.
I have to say though, watching his mechanic win a race against top teams at Hampton Downs due to this was quality entertainment!!

[The Chow]

sometimes you need to look past these riders who are already racing the series, to find out why the poeple did not ride the nats, otherwise you will not get the growth, but i agree there should be a debrief very soon after the natioanls

But in the end, The president should not run the road race nationals, road race commission does,

Thanks Scott

Yes people forget that riders who don't do the nats are still fans and sometimes even pay to go the events and bring their friends and family. The sport is for everyone to have a view not just a the competitors. And you stole my thunder " Breaking News , As you say scott it is the commissioner who runs the sport NOT the President!!

The president is the chairman of the board .

[scrivy]

Morning,

The only problem with that Scrivy, as you have already identified, our 'Sport' is full of "Gunnas" (I am going to do this, I am going to do that). But when it comes down to close of entries, after the Club/MNZ etc have committed to the event, they are simply not there.

Fark!! That's exactly what I said in relation to the Chows post. Out of 30 expressions, only 8 entered!
But when I said that, you bagged me for baging others!! Go figure!!

If people have to attend a meeting, they will be more likely to be willing competitors other than just mouthpieces of no relevance. That will grow our sport.

[The Chow]

Fark!! That's exactly what I said in relation to the Chows post. Out of 30 expressions, only 8 entered!
But when I said that, you bagged me for baging others!! Go figure!!

If people have to attend a meeting, they will be more likely to be willing competitors other than just mouthpieces of no relevance. That will grow our sport.

Scrivy

Thanks for your comments. Firstly the sport is not only about the riders that do the nationals , it about the riders who choose not to but still are fans and are sometimes even paying public that bring their families etc or follow it online etc. I can tell you now that we have over 90,000 page views around 10,000 individual users to our site from August to now (which until recently was just the series website) we got 700 computer log ons per round on average at each round to follow the series commentating etc and we have 1150 friends on our facebook page and I tell you they aren't all riders , don't these people deserve a say as well.

And by the way I can back those fiqures up.

Oh and as aside the poll may be unscientific , but the person who so far have voted for 2 rounds is all on his own at the moment.

Why isn't the TRRS part of the Tri-Series now if it was such a great event , plenty of riders and thats good , but no spectators to speak of , great BBQ mate , as you kept telling me in 2009 during the meeting "You don't get this at the nationals" ,and no you don't thats a fact , but you get top class racing from a top class feild of riders that is a fact.

I asked the question to Chris by the way not you

Ian

[BJT666]

Jim.
My post was fact! Officials Training was started in the late 80's early 90's and has been evolving ever since. There was a three year period where there was not the seminars as we knew them, but that was restarted in 2007 when I became the Stewards Commissioner. I bought Andrew Roigard on as instructor and delegated the job to him. This continued until May 2009 when I resigned as Commissioner. The programme was evolving all the time as there would not be a lot of point if it didnt. You have come in, updated the content, and carried the show on. The same as a number of people before you.

Save your cheap put downs and one liners for for a more appropriate time!

Afternoon Warren,

There is no appropriate time for cheap put downs and if I could work things better, I would have gone back and removed the last line.

Please accept my apologies.

The point that needs clearly up is the programme run between 2007 and 2009 was 'Stewards Training', we now have "Officials Training" from flag marshals all the way to the Steward.

Hope to see you Saturday.

[scrivy]

I asked the question to Chris by the way not you

Ian

I am aware of that Ian.
What I commented on is in my post. About the science behind the poll.
No scullduggery.

Im a spectator to lots of events also, should I get involved in how soccer matches are run? What about car race events? What about Rally meetings? etc etc.
No I shouldn't, cause I don't spend the money (vested interest) in the sport.

Fans will watch any sport, as long as it is entertaining.
Competitors must have the majority say. You realise that Ian. How else will we grow our sport?

Or we could have 10,000 website jockies saying we should race electric bikes. Where would that put us, and more importantly the riders who've already spent the money on gear?

[The Chow]

I am aware of that Ian.
What I commented on is in my post. About the science behind the poll.
No scullduggery.

Im a spectator to lots of events also, should I get involved in how soccer matches are run? What about car race events? What about Rally meetings? etc etc.
No I shouldn't, cause I don't spend the money (vested interest) in the sport.

Fans will watch any sport, as long as it is entertaining.
Competitors must have the majority say. You realise that Ian. How else will we grow our sport?

Or we could have 10,000 website jockies saying we should race electric bikes. Where would that put us, and more importantly the riders who've already spent the money on gear?

Mate , I don't agree but thats life. I do agree on one point though and that the sport is riddled with skeletons of classes which are past or never were.

[scrivy]

Why isn't the TRRS part of the Tri-Series now if it was such a great event
Thanks for the complement Ian. It was a great event. As you know, Chris had two operations in the later part of last year and I didn't feel comfortable in running it single handedly. ,

plenty of riders and thats good , but no spectators to speak of , great BBQ mate , as you kept telling me in 2009 during the meeting "You don't get this at the nationals" ,and no you don't thats a fact , but you get top class racing from a top class feild of riders that is a fact.

So the Tri-series didn't have top class riders Ian? That's a brave comment to make, and I'd be pissed off if I was one of those top riders that entered! I think you'll find every class entered had the current NZ champ there!!
The grids were twice as full at the Nats also.

[The Chow]

So the Tri-series didn't have top class riders Ian? That's a brave comment to make, and I'd be pissed off if I was one of those top riders that entered! I think you'll find every class entered had the current NZ champ there!!

Ok Andrew was there and Craig was there and Lazzarini and Gozzini we are talking 2009 remember , oh and who esle? , and more importantly what top riders weren't at the nationals?

Mate why didn't you run the event without Chris , as you seem capable?

[The Chow]

What if anything are you going to do about.

Abuse by riders/team members to Officials /Organisers
Which appears to be on the increase , not naming names but it happened three times this year that I'm aware , one time in particular was bad at Hampton Downs , where experienced stewards were abused.

Ok a steward or official may get stuff wrong , and that has always happened and will always happen. But they don't need to take the abuse. In the case in Auckland it was totally uncalled for.
Riders have always got a proceedure to follow with regarding disputes , this does not give them the right to abuse the unpaid officials or organisers.

[scrivy]

Ok Andrew was there and Craig was there and Lazzarini and Gozzini we are talking 2009 remember , oh and who esle? , and more importantly what top riders weren't at the nationals?
I can't believe you have no regard for the other riders present Ian! There were most of the top contenders in most classes there. Did you have your eyes wide shut?? Fitzgerald, Williams, Frost, Skachill, Briggs, Donnelly, Merkel, Love, Rajek, Galway, Smart, Tanner, Clee, Summers, Unsworth, Easton, Chappell, Moir, the list goes on and on.......... do you not give a rats about them? Who else?? That is an insult to NZ's best riders!
That comment just shot down every 2nd place getter and below. That sucks. But hey, that's your opinion. You'd rather just have 6 or so bikes of higher calibre riders?? I wouldn't pay to watch that.

Mate why didn't you run the event without Chris , as you seem capable?
You ask your mate Jim. I've already stated on here why.

[The Chow]

You ask your mate Jim. I've already stated on here why.

Andy don't insult me please , I can tell you this I have just got off the phone after having a frank discussion to my mate Jim (and he still is one) , but I can have free and frank meetings with him and yes he doesn't like it at times, but we are friends.

Chris I like him and have always got on with him , I just hope he knows what he is getting himself in for.

I am on good terms with most of the riders , who I count many as friends. This includes club racers , take a look at the website mate , I will be covering the vic series this year and hopefully I can get some of the club boys and girls some coverage. By the way everyone , Andrew Presant tells me all the classes have this year got naming rights sponsors for every class , sorry to see that Sidecars are once again no longer invited. More track time for the solos

[Biggles08]

I am on good terms with most of the riders , who I count many as friends. This includes club racers , take a look at the website mate , I will be covering the vic series this year and hopefully I can get some of the club boys and girls some coverage. By the way everyone , Andrew Presant tells me all the classes have this year got naming rights sponsors for every class , sorry to see that Sidecars are once again no longer invited. More track time for the solos

Ian, the website this year for the National rounds was excellent and long may it continue, you guys do a fantastic job!

Re the abuse I totally 100% agree it is never acceptable, however as are the stewards human, so are the riders.

When decisions are blatantly inaccurate over a period of time I can see how frustration can get the better of them. The Auckland round was interesting as it was Glen Skatchel I believe that specifically asked the question in the morning at riders briefing about what would happen if the race was declared wet (as it was in the morning) but it started to dry up throughout the day. We were told that it was riders choice and no allowance for tire changes were going to be given again. Then they did exactly that!

Anyway, sorry for digressing again... good question and I await the answers from Jim and Chris.

[budda]

You ask your mate Jim. I've already stated on here why.

You ladies really do need to play more nicely ........ if you keep spitting the dummy, one of the cat pies in the sandpit you're so jealously guarding might stick to it ......
actually, then you'd have an excuse for talking shit ! - carry on !!!!!!!!!!!!

[scrivy]

Andy don't abuse me please ,
Abuse you?? WTF?? How is calling Jim your mate abuse? You just stated he is your mate! I can't figure that out Ian. I don't come on here to abuse peoople, I come on here to set records straight and tell fact.

Chris I like him and have always got on with him , I just hope he knows what he is getting himself in for.
He's not a fool Ian.

all the classes have this year got naming rights sponsors for every class , sorry to see that Sidecars are once again no longer invited. More track time for the solos
I dont do the Winter meetings, so i can't complain. What I will say to you though Ian, is that it was not the NZSRA that committed to doing the VMCC rounds last year. It was an individual that shouldn't have commented for others. You obviously know all about that, but are reluctant to say so.

You are trying so hard to tarnish the NZSRA and myself. But you say you're in the sport for the love of it. Me too. But lies, rumours and mis-truths or deliberate witholding of the full story doesn't help the sport Ian.

[The Chow]

I dont do the Winter meetings, so i can't complain. What I will say to you though Ian, is that it was not the NZSRA that committed to doing the VMCC rounds last year. It was an individual that shouldn't have commented for others. You obviously know all about that, but are reluctant to say so.

You are trying so hard to tarnish the NZSRA and myself. But you say you're in the sport for the love of it. Me too. But lies, rumours and mis-truths or deliberate witholding of the full story doesn't help the sport Ian.




Same here mate the amount of shit I have heard from the otherside of the fence with you guys in the chairs , I'm over it . I did count some of your members as friends until they started putting shit into what I was doing for the nationals not anyone else in fact I can point the finger at you directly back in beginning at Timaru 2008 when you were bitching here on this site about how it was just solos getting all the attention and what about us . So Pot calling Kettle.

[scrivy]

then you'd have an excuse for talking shit ! - carry on !!!!!!!!!!!!

Nah Budda, shit and fact are both 4 letter words, and both end in 't', but thats all they have in common!

Scrivy

[scrivy]

Same here mate the amount of shit I have heard from the otherside of the fence with you guys in the chairs , I'm over it .
So how much did you hear from our 'Side'? 'Cause we're over it too Ian. We moved on and let them play themselves.

I did count some of your members as friends until they started putting shit into what I was doing for the nationals not anyone else in fact I can point the finger at you directly back in beginning at Timaru 2008 when you were bitching here on this site about how it was just solos getting all the attention and what about us . So Pot calling Kettle.

Can you give me specifics Ian, or PM me so I can understand where you're coming from? I've got broad shoulders. If I f@cked up, then I'll apologise, but I need the details.

Scrivy

[The Chow]

Can you give me specifics Ian, or PM me so I can understand where you're coming from? I've got broad shoulders. If I f@cked up, then I'll apologise, but I need the details.

Scrivy

Scrivy from where I sit , I'm just over the whole issue. It has been a gigantic F**K up and the original problem that the Sidecar Association had has been lost in the murk, (for me that is)

I will PM later with how I see things , but the sport is all that matters at the end of the day.

As a jesture of good faith , should Chris win , then I'm still around to cover the sport.

[scrivy]

Scrivy from where I sit , I'm just over the whole issue. It has been a gigantic F**K up and the original problem that the Sidecar Association had has been lost in the murk, (for me that is)

I will PM later with how I see things , but the sport is all that matters at the end of the day.

As a jesture of good faith , should Chris win , then I'm still around to cover the sport.

Finally Ian, we agree. This slagging match was going no where!
I understand your dismay with certain events - I too have alot! Were we both to blame? No!
I will defend our club, as I am passionate about it. I do not like un-informed attacks made of it by certain keyboard jockies. (And no, thats not a reference to you, and I'm not calling you that either).
Both of us have 'invested' alot of time and money into our sport. It's called giving back. You've done it, and so have I. My TRRS cost me over 400 hours a year, not to mention shit loads of money!
Do I want to see growth? HELL YES!!! Is it possible?? HELL YES!!!

And by the way, I too watched the timing, live feeds etc of the Tri-series and nats. I too was friggin impressed!!

You have undoubtedly done a massive job there Ian. I applaud you for that.

Scrivy

[ellipsis]

What if anything are you going to do about.

Abuse by riders/team members to Officials /Organisers
Which appears to be on the increase , not naming names but it happened three times this year that I'm aware , one time in particular was bad at Hampton Downs , where experienced stewards were abused.

Ok a steward or official may get stuff wrong , and that has always happened and will always happen. But they don't need to take the abuse. In the case in Auckland it was totally uncalled for.
Riders have always got a proceedure to follow with regarding disputes , this does not give them the right to abuse the unpaid officials or organisers.


...on the flip side of that coin......bullying and abuse and misquoting MNZ rules to riders...been a little of that too, from way up on high...not a dig ..bit of balance...Im one of the 95% of club road racers who have done as many laps on as many bikes over the years as a lot of others...dont look at the Nats as being the be all and end all of motorcycle road racing in this country...important as they are...I along with many others miss the sidechair numbers and excitement of their class...have been to one of JT's training classes a few months back and thought it was bloody great...learned a lot I should have already known..I naively asked a serious question,about this time last year on KB and it turned into a shit fight over fuck all ,I thought...phone calls from JT, shit from other people who had different opinions...KB may be a place to do this but all should remember that they are probably reading this in Kurgistan too...dialogue is great..diarrhea leaves a stain...

...was so cool to be able to listen to the Nats this year in the comfort of my buckled house...cheers...neil morrison #6285

[budda]

Sorry, cant find the correct post to quote it, and frankly cant be arsed spending the time to find it ..... was posted on here that Chairs have only done 2 South Island Rounds for many many years. Funny that, they did ALL Mainland Rounds for MANY MANY years before the change of heart . As one who was THERE when things changed, I know why this all started - interested to see if any of the current Pontificators are as aware as they claim to be .............

There has been a claim that the root cause of all this character assassination and mutual masturbation is the decision by the NZSCRA to only do 2 South Island Rounds - anyone care to elaborate on the reasons why ?

[codgyoleracer]

(QUOTE) IAN D,
As for the genuine questions being asked then keep it going I say. Chris you say you are for majority this and majority that , well what happens when people show they want five rounds , be the votes from Riders/Fans or what ever , are you still going to push for two rounds?[/QUOTE]



I have a genuine question on a fundamental item:Re the low numbers of MNZ members actually taking the time to vote for MNZ positions.

How difficult is it to align voting with the timing of renewing your license. It could simply a "click through form" and as part of registering for your license you need to make a selction of your preffered candidates for the various positions.

If you dont choose one - then you cant complete the form.

Its easy peasy stuff - web site wise?

Cheers
Glen Williams #2945

[Crasherfromwayback]

If you dont choose one - then you cant complete the form.

Its easy peasy stuff - web site wise?

Cheers
Glen Williams #2945

Stop talking so much sense man.

[scrivy]

How difficult is it to align voting with the timing of renewing your license. It could simply a "click through form" and as part of registering for your license you need to make a selction of your preffered candidates for the various positions.

If you dont choose one - then you cant complete the form.

Its easy peasy stuff - web site wise?

Cheers
Glen Williams #2945

That does sound easy and ideal!
Unfortunately, people get their licences at different times of the year, when no candidates are up for election.

[codgyoleracer]

That does sound easy and ideal!
Unfortunately, people get their licences at different times of the year, when no candidates are up for election.

Dont be such a nay sayer , obviously things would need to change to make things happen, But the concept is sound ? , Yes ?

[scrivy]

Dont be such a nay sayer , obviously things would need to change to make things happen, But the concept is sound ? , Yes ?

Not a nay sayer Glenn. But a bloody good idea if it could work.

[scott411]

Dont be such a nay sayer , obviously things would need to change to make things happen, But the concept is sound ? , Yes ?

i think the problem is that many people will not care, and will just pick a name and carry on, or you will turn it into a popularity contest rather than a talk about who would be better at the job (even worse than now)

I think the voting process needs to go back to the clubs, with the club voting on behalf of its members, with some sort of system where the clubs with more liceinced members having more votes than, (something like a vote for every 20 liceinced members).

[scrivy]

Sorry, cant find the correct post to quote it, and frankly cant be arsed spending the time to find it ..... was posted on here that Chairs have only done 2 South Island Rounds for many many years. Funny that, they did ALL Mainland Rounds for MANY MANY years before the change of heart . As one who was THERE when things changed, I know why this all started - interested to see if any of the current Pontificators are as aware as they claim to be .............
Oh, back to sidecars again........ People love us........
Peter, don't beat around the bush, give us examples. (Why can't any MNZ officals give us details???)
If you mean that the sidecars didn't do any more than 2 rounds down south from 1992-1999, then again from about 2005-2009, then I understand, and as far as I am aware this is Fact.
The Road race comissioner at one time was told that we would rather have many more chairs at fewer events down south, than have just a handful at all 3 rounds. He agreed. I believe this to be the right idea too - but it wasn't my idea at the time.
Again, unfortunately 1 individual said he could get enough chairs to put on a grid at the other round. The rest is now history.

There has been a claim that the root cause of all this character assassination and mutual masturbation is the decision by the NZSCRA to only do 2 South Island Rounds - anyone care to elaborate on the reasons why ?

Is that what you mean Peter? If not, give me more details. I will explain more given more details. I certainly cannot read minds.

Scrivy

[budda]

I think the voting process needs to go back to the clubs, with the club voting on behalf of its members, with some sort of system where the clubs with more liceinced members having more votes than, (something like a vote for every 20 liceinced members).

Bloody good job you dont get to decide then Scott !!!!!!!!!!!! As you know, this idea was roundly discussed at last years AGM - unfortunately for those shovelling this particular batch of bovine excrement, in the cold hard light of a sober day, it was seen for the steaming pile that it undoubtedly is.

I'd hazard a guess that less than 25% of those on here are active members of their own Club - certain unsavoury characters would have the numbers stacked so far out of kilter that not even the effects of whatever the hell sort of medication some on here are chocka-to-the-gunnalls with would make it all right.

ONE MAN, ONE VOTE - if you dont vote, you deserve what you get .........
I might disagree with how you vote, but I'll argue to the death for your right to BE stupid !

[Drew]

Right, I'm less fuckin informed than I was before I subscribed to this fuckin thread.

Jesus this shit makes me sick!

All this has done for me is create more questions about different shit. Seems to be a more open opinion from the Chris camp, but it aint coming directly from him. Neither is most of what's coming from the BJT camp.

If I could get my voting slip back, I'd abstain from voting and just race whenever and whatever I can.

Why either of you want anything to do with this shit is beyond me, good fuckin luck to the winner.

Drew Mair #17751

[Biggles08]

Right, I'm less fuckin informed than I was before I subscribed to this fuckin thread.

Jesus this shit makes me sick!

All this has done for me is create more questions about different shit. Seems to be a more open opinion from the Chris camp, but it aint coming directly from him. Neither is most of what's coming from the BJT camp.

If I could get my voting slip back, I'd abstain from voting and just race whenever and whatever I can.

Why either of you want anything to do with this shit is beyond me, good fuckin luck to the winner.

Drew Mair #17751

No one cares about what you think Drew :niceone:

I have actually found it quite informing if you can manage to sift through all the abuse and "he said", "she said." For one, I now more understand the workings of MNZ and the roles the different people play.

[Drew]

For one, I now more understand the workings of MNZ and the roles the different people play.

That information has been freely available to you as club member since the day you joined, had you bothered to ask and look.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Drew Mair #17751

What sort of number is that? Sheesh.

[The Chow]

Finally Ian, we agree. This slagging match was going no where!
I understand your dismay with certain events - I too have alot! Were we both to blame? No!
I will defend our club, as I am passionate about it. I do not like un-informed attacks made of it by certain keyboard jockies. (And no, thats not a reference to you, and I'm not calling you that either).
Both of us have 'invested' alot of time and money into our sport. It's called giving back. You've done it, and so have I. My TRRS cost me over 400 hours a year, not to mention shit loads of money!
Do I want to see growth? HELL YES!!! Is it possible?? HELL YES!!!

And by the way, I too watched the timing, live feeds etc of the Tri-series and nats. I too was friggin impressed!!

You have undoubtedly done a massive job there Ian. I applaud you for that.

Scrivy

Scrivy all I can say is hopefully some how the whole sorry episode ends one day and we get back to common ground.

[Drew]

Can I get a phone number for each candidate please? I will compile a list of my questions, and would like to be able to have a frank conversation with both of you.

I am a loud mouth as people on here will attest, for once I'd like to speak loudly and be informed at the same time.

[BJT666]

No one cares about what you think Drew :niceone:

I have actually found it quite informing if you can manage to sift through all the abuse and "he said", "she said." For one, I now more understand the workings of MNZ and the roles the different people play.

Sorry Marcus, we should care what Drew thinks, as he is a sidecar competitor and has competed in the Nationals this season.

Sorry Drew.

Here is a little more of that "He said" 'She said'.
Next time we meet you can tell who was the He and who was the She.

The tale of New Zealand Sidecar Racing

In 2009 and for several years preceding that the New Zealand Sidecar Championship ran at only four rounds of the NZ Road Race Championships. They missed the Invercargill round and began at Timaru. This came about after Chris Lawrance (The then President of the NZSRA) lobbied the then Road Race Commissioner, on the basis it was too expensive for sidecar teams to travel to Invercargill. At the same time the NZSRA were approaching the organisers of the Invercargill round (The Southland Motorcycle Club) seeking funding for accommodation to include a bar tab.

Shortly after the conclusion of the 2009 Nationals, several prominent sidecar teams returned to Timaru to compete in a combined car/bike event.
This destroyed any argument that could be put forward regarding travel being too expensive.

Then, in the run up to the 2010 New Zealand Road Race Championships it was decided that sidecars would be treated the same as every other Road Racing Class and their Championship would run over all five rounds.
Yes, the NZSRA did vote to do only four rounds, unfortunately they did not and still don’t represent all sidecar racers in New Zealand.
During the 2009 Championship there were up to 13 outfits and at least 6 outfits (46%) indicated they wished to compete at all five rounds.
There were also lengthy discussions held with the new President of the NZSRA (Burt Wolland) based around the possibility of running different levels of competition, to encourage participation.
It became very obvious that a “Have” and “Have Not” division was occurring. Those with funding to compete in the Championship and those without.

As the argument regarding costs had been waived by the sidecar competitors, when they returned to the South Is for the car meeting, the 2010 Championship proceeded
The organising Clubs included Sidecars on their entry forms; unfortunately insufficient outfits entered the second round in Invercargill. So the Club dropped the class.

Simple Fact: MNZ/Clubs put on the events and only a few came to race.

Also, it is MNZ’s understanding that several prominent members of the NZSRA campaigned to scuttle the 2010 Nationals. This was relayed to us by several sidecar competitors and we have no reason to disbelieve them.
One question we would ask is “was there any relevance to the fact that Mr Lawrance’s wedding was held on the same weekend as the Manfeild round of the Nationals.”

We then began the planning of the 2011 Castrol Power 1 New Zealand Road Race Championships.
But while attending the Hampton Downs round of the Suzuki Tri Series, we were advised that Mr Lawrance and Mr Scrivener were organising a trip to Australia for sidecars to compete at the “Barry Sheene Memorial” which just happened to clash with the last two rounds of the Nationals, if you include freight time/ travel.
During this same period, members of the NZSRA apparently voted to pull out of MNZ.
However several members of the Association question the validity of that ‘Vote’, apparently approximately 15% of the membership was not consulted.

As we understand it, this was driven by Mr Scrivener and Mr Lawrance.

The 2011 Championship kicked off in Timaru and those who came to race should be congratulated, however the momentum didn’t continue with the class being dropped from the Teretonga, Hampton Downs and Manfield rounds.

The Simple Fact is Unchanged: MNZ/Clubs put on the events and only a few came to race.



This has now brought about a very difficult situation.


The Clubs offered to run Sidecars as part of the programmes and nobody came.

Why would they consider including Sidecars in the future.



MNZ fought hard to keep the Sidecar Championship alive.

Only a few came so, why continue it.

I am at a loss as to why this is my fault. Why should sidecars be treated any differently to other New Zealand Road Race Championship classes.


For the record, I was involved when the NZSRA was formed and have been a card carrying member. I understand they are still using the little purple folded membership cards.

Regards

BJT666 - Jim Tuckerman

[Drew]

What sort of number is that? Sheesh.
I'm not 150 years old like you mate, my number was allocated in the last ten years so the number is high.

[The Chow]

No one cares about what you think Drew :niceone:

I have actually found it quite informing if you can manage to sift through all the abuse and "he said", "she said." For one, I now more understand the workings of MNZ and the roles the different people play.

Mate that is the problem , to many people don't understand how it all works. Man the shit that you hear is enough make me go grey(er). Did you know I was talking to a top rider at Manfeild and he wanted to know how much TV paid MNZ for coverage? I couldn't believe it , the rider concerned had several titles and has been around the scene for years and still thought TV paid us!

Then there are all the rules and laws that now have to be obeyed outside of MNZ , there are all sorts of laws ready just to trip people up. Thats why you need good people who aren't just in it for the sport , but also understand how the system (flawed as may be) works.

Keep up the good riding mate you did a great job at Hampton.

[Drew]

Sorry Marcus, we should care what Drew thinks, as he is a sidecar competitor and has competed in the Nationals this season.

Sorry Drew.

Here is a little more of that...

Regards

BJT666 - Jim Tuckerman

Thanks Jim, very informative to hear one side of the whole story. Hearing the other side if it differs would be good.

I'm not only interested in the sidecar nationals though. The blame for them not running the North island rounds this year lays squarely on my shoulders as our entry would have completed a grid of six both times.

Here's a question for both nominees. How do you intend on tackling the apathy amongst our members? If half the members voted, or even voiced their opinion in the right forum, (that word is not restricted to the internet, it means; 1. A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged), the state of our sport could be much more easily measured.

[wharfy]

I have a genuine question on a fundamental item:Re the low numbers of MNZ members actually taking the time to vote for MNZ positions.

How difficult is it to align voting with the timing of renewing your license. It could simply a "click through form" and as part of registering for your license you need to make a selction of your preffered candidates for the various positions.

If you dont choose one - then you cant complete the form.

Its easy peasy stuff - web site wise?

Cheers
Glen Williams #2945

While the technical side of this would be relatively easy, I have a fundamental problem with people being FORCED to vote - It is a right that ALL club members SHOULD exercise but I don't beleive they should be forced to.


i think the problem is that many people will not care, and will just pick a name and carry on, or you will turn it into a popularity contest rather than a talk about who would be better at the job (even worse than now)

I think the voting process needs to go back to the clubs, with the club voting on behalf of its members, with some sort of system where the clubs with more liceinced members having more votes than, (something like a vote for every 20 liceinced members).

The problem I see with this is that clubs with large memberships could have undue influence with no easy way of checking that it is actually the will of the members. ( I suspect that most club members display the same apathy at club level that they do at national level )


Bloody good job you dont get to decide then Scott !!!!!!!!!!!! As you know, this idea was roundly discussed at last years AGM - unfortunately for those shovelling this particular batch of bovine excrement, in the cold hard light of a sober day, it was seen for the steaming pile that it undoubtedly is.

I'd hazard a guess that less than 25% of those on here are active members of their own Club - certain unsavoury characters would have the numbers stacked so far out of kilter that not even the effects of whatever the hell sort of medication some on here are chocka-to-the-gunnalls with would make it all right.

ONE MAN, ONE VOTE - if you dont vote, you deserve what you get .........
I might disagree with how you vote, but I'll argue to the death for your right to BE stupid !

Disregarding all the vitriol in this post, I agree with one person one vote.
However even using this system clubs can "stack" the AGM with members and/or proxy votes to push their particular agenda - but they have to do a lot more work !! and to a certain degree if you want something done get off your arse and make it happen is an OK thing.
It is particularly a risk in organizations where there is such a small number of people actually voting.

At the last election (for president) of the thousands of MNZ members only about 350 actually voted and the result was reasonably close (less than 50 votes I think) so not exactly a mandate for sweeping changes.

These numbers are not exact, I don't have them handy, but are probably in the field of play (not just the ball park) - someone with the exact figures at hand can tack them on I'm sure :)

So despite the very low signal-to-noise ratio in this thread it may get a few more people voting which is all good :)


Right, I'm less fuckin informed than I was before I subscribed to this fuckin thread.

Jesus this shit makes me sick!

All this has done for me is create more questions about different shit. Seems to be a more open opinion from the Chris camp, but it aint coming directly from him. Neither is most of what's coming from the BJT camp.

If I could get my voting slip back, I'd abstain from voting and just race whenever and whatever I can.

Why either of you want anything to do with this shit is beyond me, good fuckin luck to the winner.

Drew Mair #17751

Hey Drew download a voting form and vote again for the other candidate so they cancel each other out !

If the voting auditors pick it up then both votes will be invalid = same result :)

[The Chow]

Ian, the website this year for the National rounds was excellent and long may it continue, you guys do a fantastic job!

Re the abuse I totally 100% agree it is never acceptable, however as are the stewards human, so are the riders.

When decisions are blatantly inaccurate over a period of time I can see how frustration can get the better of them. The Auckland round was interesting as it was Glen Skatchel I believe that specifically asked the question in the morning at riders briefing about what would happen if the race was declared wet (as it was in the morning) but it started to dry up throughout the day. We were told that it was riders choice and no allowance for tire changes were going to be given again. Then they did exactly that!

Anyway, sorry for digressing again... good question and I await the answers from Jim and Chris.

Mate , great to see you taking an interest. Yes I know that the whole sorry episode was a classic muck up at Hampton and riders and pit crew get stressed , but there are processes that you can appeal/protest decisions. I can handle seeing riders throw tantrams but when an experience steward is called a C**T in front of people by a member of riders pitcrew that is not acceptable in my book.

Riders need to know that officials have to try and make the right call , sometimes they get it right sometimes they don't. The abuse is not acceptable.

[scott411]

At the last election (for president) of the thousands of MNZ members only about 350 actually voted and the result was reasonably close (less than 50 votes I think) so not exactly a mandate for sweeping changes.

These numbers are not exact, I don't have them handy, but are probably in the field of play (not just the ball park) - someone with the exact figures at hand can tack them on I'm sure :)



you were very close, 349 Votes,

President is Mr Jim Tuckermann -186 votes to 129

There were 34 invalid votes

source

http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/download/2010_AGM_Minutes_of_91st_AGM.pdf

you have a point with clubs being able to stack the deck somewhat, but i think it would be able to be kept in check alot easier than the proxy system now, no club has a huge majority of members, i think last time we got complete numbers (which was 08 report) i think the biggest club (Pukekohe) had about 232 licienced members, with southland having one less,

at the moment it is not that hard to turn up with 50-80 proxy's and control the election, which i do not think it is right,

link to 08 report
http://www.mnz.co.nz/download/2008_Annual_Report.pdf

[jellywrestler]

I have to say though, watching his mechanic win a race against top teams at Hampton Downs due to this was quality entertainment!!
Twas a handicapped race though Steve...

[Biggles08]

Mate , great to see you taking an interest. Yes I know that the whole sorry episode was a classic muck up at Hampton and riders and pit crew get stressed , but there are processes that you can appeal/protest decisions. I can handle seeing riders throw tantrams but when an experience steward is called a C**T in front of people by a member of riders pitcrew that is not acceptable in my book.

Riders need to know that officials have to try and make the right call , sometimes they get it right sometimes they don't. The abuse is not acceptable.

I agree, that is unacceptable and I too would take offense at that sort of language / attitude. It is never ok.

I do think however it is pulling one incident out of a pool of many problems and slapping a 'red flag' on it as more important than other problems. The whole issue needs to be addressed, slashed out, possibly agreed to disagree and both riders and officials need to somehow put the shit behind us and work towards ensuring that this path is never begun to be trampled down again. It has to never be seen as 'us and them' if we are ever going to move forward.

[scott411]

opps, found the 09 report as well,

http://www.mnz.co.nz/download/2009_Annual_Report.pdf

[jellywrestler]

Or we could have 10,000 website jockies saying we should race electric bikes. Where would that put us
Tripping over lots of fucking extension leads I reckon

[Drew]

I agree, that is unacceptable and I too would take offense at that sort of language / attitude. It is never ok.


Hey Marcus, you're a c@nt!

[Crasherfromwayback]

I agree, that is unacceptable and I too would take offense at that sort of language / attitude. It is never ok.
.

Sheesh. They need to harden up. I get talked to like that quite often in my job...

[Kevin G]

you were very close, 349 Votes,

President is Mr Jim Tuckermann -186 votes to 129

There were 34 invalid votes

source

http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/download/2010_AGM_Minutes_of_91st_AGM.pdf

you have a point with clubs being able to stack the deck somewhat, but i think it would be able to be kept in check alot easier than the proxy system now, no club has a huge majority of members, i think last time we got complete numbers (which was 08 report) i think the biggest club (Pukekohe) had about 232 licienced members, with southland having one less,

at the moment it is not that hard to turn up with 50-80 proxy's and control the election, which i do not think it is right,

link to 08 report
http://www.mnz.co.nz/download/2008_Annual_Report.pdf

Hi Scott.
Proxy votes cannot be used for the election of officers, they can only be used to vote on items at the AGM.

[Drew]

New plan on voting, who ever will revoke Biggles license gets me and a few other peoples vote!

[Biggles08]

Hey Marcus, you're a c@nt!


yeah I know...a good one :love:

[scott411]

Hi Scott.
Proxy votes cannot be used for the election of officers, they can only be used to vote on items at the AGM.

you learn something every day, thanks, its better that way

[Biggles08]

New plan on voting, who ever will revoke Biggles license gets me and a few other peoples vote!
Who...you and all your personalities?

[Drew]

Who...you and all your personalities?

Both personalities and their families. That's six votes!

[Biggles08]

I'd be interested to hear what 'watchman' has to say about all this :facepalm:

[Drew]

I'd be interested to hear what 'watchman' has to say about all this :facepalm:

Things aren't cloudy enough for you already?

[lostinflyz]

What if anything are you going to do about.

Abuse by riders/team members to Officials /Organisers
Which appears to be on the increase , not naming names but it happened three times this year that I'm aware , one time in particular was bad at Hampton Downs , where experienced stewards were abused.

Ok a steward or official may get stuff wrong , and that has always happened and will always happen. But they don't need to take the abuse. In the case in Auckland it was totally uncalled for.
Riders have always got a proceedure to follow with regarding disputes , this does not give them the right to abuse the unpaid officials or organisers.

here here i say

I raised the issue about rider conduct early on in nats this year on here. Even as a rider i thought the attitudes of some racers was piss poor. Unfortunately it created a combative nature with certain officials (which is completely understandable) that remained through nats and when officials actually made errors we weren't listened to.

anyway back to your bickering its certainly entertaining. Who needs desperate housewives when we have scrivvy.......

[jellywrestler]

Who needs desperate housewives
I do drop some off to my place, tape their mouths shut first please, I don't like the ones that nag

[The Chow]

I agree, that is unacceptable and I too would take offense at that sort of language / attitude. It is never ok.

I do think however it is pulling one incident out of a pool of many problems and slapping a 'red flag' on it as more important than other problems. The whole issue needs to be addressed, slashed out, possibly agreed to disagree and both riders and officials need to somehow put the shit behind us and work towards ensuring that this path is never begun to be trampled down again. It has to never be seen as 'us and them' if we are ever going to move forward.

Mate that is just one example , I agree disagreements are ok and if a rider has a problem arguments are fine, but then there is no need for atitudes. Be grown up about it and remember this is not Moto GP etc it is NZ and we suppose to be in for the fun and enjoyment.

Over and Out

[The Chow]

Sheesh. They need to harden up. I get talked to like that quite often in my job...

Pete I can just see Gary and Steve calling you a c**T (Not) and remember it's your job , not an unpaid position. On the other hand I could see Barry doing it or John and Mark in the old days LOL

[The Chow]

I'd be interested to hear what 'watchman' has to say about all this :facepalm:

Not really , don't need tossers like that

[Pussy]

Feel the love! :love:

Reading this thread makes me feel like going out and hugging someone......

[prettybillie]

I'm not only interested in the sidecar nationals though. The blame for them not running the North island rounds this year lays squarely on my shoulders as our entry would have completed a grid of six both times.


The blame doesn't lay with you Drew - IF the blame lays with anyone - it's me that said you can't use the chair. If anyone is giving you grief, give them my number and they can have a go at me - not you.

[sidecar bob]

Twas a handicapped race though Steve...

It sure was, one of the competitors suffers serious memory loss, it seems he cant remember when he's in a relationship & another took too many drugs as a youth.

[racer40]

Hi again, sorry cant remember all the questions, as this thread has jumped about 5 pages since last on. I am not going to go down the same track as Jim & start bad mouthing him as he is doing to me, all I can say is I know the real facts on why I didnt do the nationals for the last 2 years. On the subject of the abuse on officals, not just at the Hampton round but any meeting, the rider should be fined & get like a yellow card, abuse another time in season & you are out for season. If a soccer/ rugby player cant keep their cool they get sinbinned or worse. Chris

[prettybillie]

It sure was, one of the competitors suffers serious memory loss, it seems he cant remember when he's in a relationship & another took too many drugs as a youth.

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahaha :yes:

Love it!!!!!

[sidecar bob]

The blame doesn't lay with you Drew - IF the blame lays with anyone - it's me that said you can't use the chair. If anyone is giving you grief, give them my number and they can have a go at me - not you.

It actually lays with the people that gave 15 competitors a limp dick about the whole thing a year earlier & as a result couldnt be arsed with the bullshit.
Both of you guys are fresh faced & innocent.

[The Chow]

Hi again, sorry cant remember all the questions, as this thread has jumped about 5 pages since last on. I am not going to go down the same track as Jim & start bad mouthing him as he is doing to me, all I can say is I know the real facts on why I didnt do the nationals for the last 2 years. On the subject of the abuse on officals, not just at the Hampton round but any meeting, the rider should be fined & get like a yellow card, abuse another time in season & you are out for season. If a soccer/ rugby player cant keep their cool they get sinbinned or worse. Chris

Thanks for the answer Chris

[CHOPPA]

Hi again, sorry cant remember all the questions, as this thread has jumped about 5 pages since last on. I am not going to go down the same track as Jim & start bad mouthing him as he is doing to me, all I can say is I know the real facts on why I didnt do the nationals for the last 2 years. On the subject of the abuse on officals, not just at the Hampton round but any meeting, the rider should be fined & get like a yellow card, abuse another time in season & you are out for season. If a soccer/ rugby player cant keep their cool they get sinbinned or worse. Chris

This attitude of 'we are volunteers we can do whatever the fuck we want' is bullshit. I can understand the riders frustration at HDs, how come officials just make up rules? We tried to ask flag mashalls to look at the track at Invercargill and apparently they dont have to cause they are volunteers says the steward.

[Wingnut]

Why is so much of this discussion based on side cars and the Nationals?

Many MNZ members join the sport purely out of enjoyment and to "participate" at club levels be it for whatever reason, financial, motivational or just an extreme lack of talent (yours truly included).

Anyway I would be interested to know if any of the two candidates have any thoughts on what the average joe club racer could expect to see change? Specifically in the area of fostering new young talented kids to achieve their potential?

Can MNZ members at the club levels expect to see any change in the future?

Also, if MNZ has made a profit of $200k - Is an increase in the annual fees justified?

Not stirring - just curious?

[scott411]

This attitude of 'we are volunteers we can do whatever the fuck we want' is bullshit. I can understand the riders frustration at HDs, how come officials just make up rules? We tried to ask flag mashalls to look at the track at Invercargill and apparently they dont have to cause they are volunteers says the steward.

there is a difference between talking or complaining to a steward/flag marshall and abusing them, the code of conduct works both ways, (or at least it should)

[The Chow]

This attitude of 'we are volunteers we can do whatever the fuck we want' is bullshit. I can understand the riders frustration at HDs, how come officials just make up rules? We tried to ask flag mashalls to look at the track at Invercargill and apparently they dont have to cause they are volunteers says the steward.

Choppa mate , of course there has to be rules , and yes that was a muck up at Hampton Downs riders who didn't want to race should have left the grid and let others who wanted to race, just get over it mate it happens. Teretonga I went to the Steward and was pretty pissed , about going all the down there for that sorry situation. It makes me laugh , riders don't want to race and yet they have full wets , traction control , better brakes among other things and oh fuck we cant race aqua planning is not new , the throttle works both ways. Give me a break , do you think days gone by Holden , Hiscock etc would wimped out , not on your life. And on 130/80-18 rear tyres and 19" fronts and yes they were still did fast speeds on old piles of shit. Imagine what it was like out there for a flaggy , you know the guys who are volunteers!!!

Like it or not Chop the volunteers and part timers are what run the sport for you to have a lot of fun, :-) cheers

[CHOPPA]

there is a difference between talking or complaining to a steward/flag marshall and abusing them, the code of conduct works both ways, (or at least it should)

What good is complaining or talking? As I asked in my Thread after R1, Do officials have to go by the rules? Apparently not as demonstrated again and again throughout the nationals.

Oh except from the final round!

At the riders briefing was the first round where there wasnt an argument. The difference was the attitude of the official. He was asked a question and he replied calmly thought about it. Asked the rider what they would like, asked if anyone disagreed then made his decision.

Anywhere else a rider asked a question they were promptly abused and made a fool of by the officials.

I dont care if there volunteers, if they have attitudes like that dont come. If we cant race cause we dont have any officials then we cant race. Then maybe a professionally run series might get the national titles like the tri series

[The Chow]

What good is complaining or talking? As I asked in my Thread after R1, Do officials have to go by the rules? Apparently not as demonstrated again and again throughout the nationals.

Oh except from the final round!

At the riders briefing was the first round where there wasnt an argument. The difference was the attitude of the official. He was asked a question and he replied calmly thought about it. Asked the rider what they would like, asked if anyone disagreed then made his decision.

Anywhere else a rider asked a question they were promptly abused and made a fool of by the officials.

I dont care if there volunteers, if they have attitudes like that dont come. If we cant race cause we dont have any officials then we cant race. Then maybe a professionally run series might get the national titles like the tri series

Come on, professional series in your dreams , yes some officials are prats , their is no doubt. But mate take a look at your professional series Leighton and Perry don't do it for the money , they do it because like me we love the sport first. We have seen it all before mate. They are even thinking at joining the series at some stage. Please don't compare the two series because both series have a very strong friendship.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Pete I can just see Gary and Steve calling you a c**T (Not) and remember it's your job , not an unpaid position. On the other hand I could see Barry doing it or John and Mark in the old days LOL

Hate to tell you this...but they'd both happily call me that if they felt the need. But I was referring to customers...and really only joking anyway. I get on with most people, and enjoy what I do. I've been there for nearly 18 years after all...and I do have their full permission to tell someone to fuck off if they're being way over the top rude too, as some people can get.

Which brings me to the bit about an MNZ Steward being told the same. I fully know how much time and effort they put into shit. It's an awesome thing they do. But when certain MNZ 'Officials' talk to paying MNZ members like something stuck to the bottom of their shoe...they (like me at work etc) should fully expect to be told to go fuck themselves.

No one makes them do it. If doing it makes them bitter and twisted...they need to stop doing it for everyones sake. Dealing with nasty bully boy MNZ stewards really takes the gloss of being involved in the sport. Sure gave me a sour taste of road racing when I first fronted up after years of having fun racing in the dirt.

[CHOPPA]

Choppa mate , of course there has to be rules , and yes that was a muck up at Hampton Downs riders who didn't want to race should have left the grid and let others who wanted to race, just get over it mate it happens. Teretonga I went to the Steward and was pretty pissed , about going all the down there for that sorry situation. It makes me laugh , riders don't want to race and yet they have full wets , traction control , better brakes among other things and oh fuck we cant race aqua planning is not new , the throttle works both ways. Give me a break , do you think days gone by Holden , Hiscock etc would wimped out , not on your life. And on 130/80-18 rear tyres and 19" fronts and yes they were still did fast speeds on old piles of shit. Imagine what it was like out there for a flaggy , you know the guys who are volunteers!!!

Like it or not Chop the volunteers and part timers are what run the sport for you to have a lot of fun, :-) cheers

I would have ridden.

I do appreciate the effort of volunteers, people like yourself who have a positive attitude are great and single handedly you do prob more to make the nats professional then anyone else but surely even yourself you must get pissed off at this im a volunteer i can do what i like attitude. Your a volunteer but you do a professional job.

If they have a bad attitude or no people skills put them on a flag instead of letting them deal with the riders. Its frustrating!

Its such a shambles, Dan Stauffer thought it was a joke and thats what all the ozzy riders will hear.

I have been to ozzy to race and seen how they do things, I have offered suggestions and they fall on deaf ears. Go to ozzy and watch how they run a meeting! It doesnt take money it just takes organisation. No rider would dare abuse an official and an official wouldnt make up rules.

When im done racing I will be the first to offer my services as a volunteer and official

[The Chow]

Hate to tell you this...but they'd both happily call me that if they felt the need. But I was referring to customers...and really only joking anyway. I get on with most people, and enjoy what I do. I've been there for nearly 18 years after all...and I do have their full permission to tell someone to fuck off if they're being way over the top rude too, as some people can get.

Which brings me to the bit about an MNZ Steward being told the same. I fully know how much time and effort they put into shit. It's an awesome thing they do. But when certain MNZ 'Officials' talk to paying MNZ members like something stuck to the bottom of their shoe...they (like me at work etc) should fully expect to be told to go fuck themselves.

No one makes them do it. If doing it makes them bitter and twisted...they need to stop doing it for everyones sake. Dealing with nasty bully boy MNZ stewards really takes the gloss of being involved in the sport. Sure gave me a sour taste of road racing when I first fronted up after years of having fun racing in the dirt.

Hey Pete , riders don't like officials and never have. Nothing new there. But they are unfortunately necessary , just ask a coroner or cops after a death or something like happened at Pukekohe several years ago. Mate you think MNZ officials are heavy try telling a cop you don't have all the paper work in order , mate you are in the gun if you don't. Anyway everyone is allowed a point of view , glad to hear you are enjoying the VMX , actually whens the next meeting?

[CHOPPA]

Come on, professional series in your dreams , yes some officials are prats , their is no doubt. But mate take a look at your professional series Leighton and Perry don't do it for the money , they do it because like me we love the sport first. We have seen it all before mate. They are even thinking at joining the series at some stage. Please don't compare the two series because both series have a very strong friendship.

Why did the tri series run like clockwork with no arguments and the nats were a shambles?

I asked L8 what his job was and he said the tri series. That makes him a professional

[The Chow]

I would have ridden.

I do appreciate the effort of volunteers, people like yourself who have a positive attitude are great and single handedly you do prob more to make the nats professional then anyone else but surely even yourself you must get pissed off at this im a volunteer i can do what i like attitude. Your a volunteer but you do a professional job.

If they have a bad attitude or no people skills put them on a flag instead of letting them deal with the riders. Its frustrating!

Its such a shambles, Dan Stauffer thought it was a joke and thats what all the ozzy riders will hear.

I have been to ozzy to race and seen how they do things, I have offered suggestions and they fall on deaf ears. Go to ozzy and watch how they run a meeting! It doesnt take money it just takes organisation. No rider would dare abuse an official and an official wouldnt make up rules.

When im done racing I will be the first to offer my services as a volunteer and official

Mate I understand completely where you are coming from , I had my fair share of run ins with Stewards over the years , I remember Ray Sherman fining me for swearing at another rider and Uncle Errol having a go at me at Manfeild over something.The problem I have is I see it from the Racer and Organiser side of thinks but there has been one thing I never aspired to and that was an MNZ stewart no not me mate.

I was pretty sure you would have ridden at Teretonga and Hampton mate if allowed.

[The Chow]

Why did the tri series run like clockwork with no arguments and the nats were a shambles?

I asked L8 what his job was and he said the tri series. That makes him a professional

No mate just bought a new business this week I think , watch out for the Interview I did with him. Leighton and Perry are great guys to work with , we are very similar in the way we see things.

[The Chow]

No mate just bought a new business this week I think , watch out for the Interview I did with him. Leighton and Perry are great guys to work with , we are very similar in the way we see things.

There were five different clubs running five different rounds , Leighton was the only one running the tri series. Mate it is bloody hard getting all clubs on the same page at the same time.

[scrivy]

The tale of New Zealand Sidecar Racing
OMG!! You are so mis-informed that it is scary to think that you are the head of our sport! Thats' what comes about by listening to only 1 person over many.

In 2009 and for several years preceding that the New Zealand Sidecar Championship ran at only four rounds of the NZ Road Race Championships. They missed the Invercargill round and began at Timaru. This came about after Chris Lawrance (The then President of the NZSRA) lobbied the then Road Race Commissioner, on the basis it was too expensive for sidecar teams to travel to Invercargill.
Also, on the basis that it is better to have more chairs on the grid at fewer meetings than a handful at more events. The commissioner also agreed. It is also difficult to get time off work for both riders and passengers at that time of year.

At the same time the NZSRA were approaching the organisers of the Invercargill round (The Southland Motorcycle Club) seeking funding for accommodation to include a bar tab.
WTF?? Jim, years ago the club had a culture of drinking, but not now. There are only about 2 members that drink nearly as much as you do! Both the president and vice-president don't drink at all!!
So name who it was please, otherwise you're talking rubbish. It certainly wasn't a NZSRA exec member!!


Shortly after the conclusion of the 2009 Nationals, several prominent sidecar teams returned to Timaru to compete in a combined car/bike event.
This destroyed any argument that could be put forward regarding travel being too expensive.
As mentioned previously, most of the teams that fronted were funded by other members. There were only a couple of teams that did the Nats that were there (and had done the Nats - and had the money to go back again), and some teams that don't do the Nats! Steve Bron was also going to be there, but a bike accident days earlier put paid to that. He was also going to bring down another bike too. This invitational event was in front of 10,000 spectators, and a new audience for us.

Then, in the run up to the 2010 New Zealand Road Race Championships it was decided that sidecars would be treated the same as every other Road Racing Class and their Championship would run over all five rounds.
Who decide that Jim? Is it minuted?
You stated (I have the written proof) that if you do not compete in all 5 rounds, you will not have a championship. Yet Mr Bron only did 4 rounds, but was still awarded a championship! Go figure.

Yes, the NZSRA did vote to do only four rounds, unfortunately they did not and still don’t represent all sidecar racers in New Zealand.
True.

During the 2009 Championship there were up to 13 outfits and at least 6 outfits (46%) indicated they wished to compete at all five rounds.
There were also lengthy discussions held with the new President of the NZSRA (Burt Wolland) based around the possibility of running different levels of competition, to encourage participation.
It became very obvious that a “Have” and “Have Not” division was occurring. Those with funding to compete in the Championship and those without.

As the argument regarding costs had been waived by the sidecar competitors, when they returned to the South Is for the car meeting, the 2010 Championship proceeded
The organising Clubs included Sidecars on their entry forms; unfortunately insufficient outfits entered the second round in Invercargill. So the Club dropped the class.
Simple Fact: MNZ/Clubs put on the events and only a few came to race.
Please don't blame the NZSRA for that Jim. We never commited to the Nats. You were wrongly told that you would have enough to make a grid. You chose to believe an individual over an association. You were told that we could have 15 plus at 2 rounds, but you told us 5 rounds or no champs.

Also, it is MNZ’s understanding that several prominent members of the NZSRA campaigned to scuttle the 2010 Nationals. This was relayed to us by several sidecar competitors and we have no reason to disbelieve them.
Of course you have no reason to disbelieve him - the guy nominated you as president 2 years ago! You chose to listen to a person with his own agenda, over many other MNZ members. Unfortunately he has deceived many a person in our sport. The latest is Leanne.

One question we would ask is “was there any relevance to the fact that Mr Lawrance’s wedding was held on the same weekend as the Manfeild round of the Nationals.”
Most weddings in NZ are in February. Chris's was no exception. He was having an operation early in March, so had to get married beforehand. No one present at the wedding was doing the Nats, so he didn't take anyone away from Manfeild. You can try hard to think he did, but your 'credible informer' has just spun you a load of shit! You fell for it hook, line and sinker! Chris had the date booked way before the dates for the Nats, as they were so late in coming out.

We then began the planning of the 2011 Castrol Power 1 New Zealand Road Race Championships.
But while attending the Hampton Downs round of the Suzuki Tri Series, we were advised that Mr Lawrance and Mr Scrivener were organising a trip to Australia for sidecars to compete at the “Barry Sheene Memorial” which just happened to clash with the last two rounds of the Nationals, if you include freight time/ travel.
As I've stated before Jim, I had nothing to do with the organisation of it! Your 'credible advisors' should have told you the truth. That 'NO NATS RIDERS WERE GOING TO BE ALLOWED TO GO'!! Chris was adamant on that issue.

During this same period, members of the NZSRA apparently voted to pull out of MNZ.
Actually, it was immediately after the AGM. Not in December.

However several members of the Association question the validity of that ‘Vote’, apparently approximately 15% of the membership was not consulted.
Really? What number weren't consulted, and how many of us were in the association at the time? Sounds like a pie in the sky guess to me.
As we understand it, this was driven by Mr Scrivener and Mr Lawrance.
Apparently you are wrong yet again! I am not an exec member, so I have no sway in the NZSRA. Actually, an 8 way phone conversation with the exec was undertaken by Tania Waitokia (you know, the lady you assaulted at Hampton Downs - and were then investigated by the police), and then follow up calls were made to damn near most members, and we had a 91% acceptance of the decission. So you're mis-informed understanding is wrong again.


The 2011 Championship kicked off in Timaru and those who came to race should be congratulated,
Those that went to race were paid to race so a member could win another title.
however the momentum didn’t continue with the class being dropped from the Teretonga, Hampton Downs and Manfield rounds.

The Simple Fact is Unchanged: MNZ/Clubs put on the events and only a few came to race.
You were feed a load of crap Jim. You were told (and you accepted) that they would have enough numbers to make a class. Actually, they didn't even have enough at closing date for H.Downs either. You chose the lies over the fact.

This has now brought about a very difficult situation.
The Clubs offered to run Sidecars as part of the programmes and nobody came.
Why would they consider including Sidecars in the future.
I guess its the commissioners call then.


MNZ fought hard to keep the Sidecar Championship alive.
No, you fought the NZSRA all the way, as your dislike for myself and Chris was obvious from 3 or more years ago. You tried in vain to stop Chris racing at Paeroa, and tried in vain to stop the TRRS. You made your bed with one side of the 'Haves' as you put them, and had a total disregard for the 'Have-nots'. You even went a step further by denying the NZSRA and Classic and Post classic clubs a carnet bond for the Aussie trip. But we got around that setback, by paying for it ourselves.

Only a few came so, why continue it.
I am at a loss as to why this is my fault.
You have insinuated, accused, harrassed, assaulted and chosen sides all along Jim. Not once have you bothered to talk to either Chris or myself to get actual fact. I will give you facts all the time, if you'd bothered to call. You know the effects of your actions, but you did nothing to remedy it.
Why should sidecars be treated any differently to other New Zealand Road Race Championship classes.


For the record, I was involved when the NZSRA was formed and have been a card carrying member. I understand they are still using the little purple folded membership cards.


Regards

BJT666 - Jim Tuckerman

Wrong again. We haven't used that card for several years now.

Scrivy

[CHOPPA]

No mate just bought a new business this week I think , watch out for the Interview I did with him. Leighton and Perry are great guys to work with , we are very similar in the way we see things.

Im subscribed!

BTW if there is a board or a meeting for next years nats let me know because I have some constructive suggestions and I think having a riders input will be valuable. Im in wellington too!

[The Chow]

Im subscribed!

BTW if there is a board or a meeting for next years nats let me know because I have some constructive suggestions and I think having a riders input will be valuable. Im in wellington too!

Where do you live? I'm in Tawa PM with your details . No the board meeting was last week.

[Kickaha]

pity that at the moment people want 5 rounds - see pole www.nzsbk.com
I would wonder if that would be skewed by South Island competitors just wanting to do "their rounds"



I have to say though, watching his mechanic win a race against top teams at Hampton Downs due to this was quality entertainment!!

#NZ1 was handicapped much the same as Scrivy is with you on the side



I am a loud mouth as people on here will attest,
I sure can attest to Drew being a loudmouth cunt :whistle:



Shortly after the conclusion of the 2009 Nationals, several prominent sidecar teams returned to Timaru to compete in a combined car/bike event.
This destroyed any argument that could be put forward regarding travel being too expensive.

As you were informed, out of the 12 sidecars attending the Timaru event 6 of those were from Christchurch so very little travel and expense was involved and only 3 of those had competed at the National rounds

6 traveled from the North Island and out of those 6 only 3 had competed at South Island rounds of the Nationals

So in reality only three teams had "extra" expense in returning South after national rounds and in return got to race at an event easily the equal of any National event and in front of a crowd the size that clubs running Nationals could only imagine

[scrivy]

As you were informed, out of the 12 sidecars attending the Timaru event 6 of those were from Christchurch so very little travel and expense was involved and only 3 of those had competed at the National rounds

6 traveled from the North Island and out of those 6 only 3 had competed at South Island rounds of the Nationals

So in reality only three teams had "extra" expense in returning South after national rounds and in return got to race at an event easily the equal of any National event and in front of a crowd the size that clubs running Nationals could only imagine

And how many of those teams were helped financially to get there by the 'Haves' at the time? All if I remember.
Jim is unfortunately ill-informed, but sticking by his 'credible informer'.
Sad really.

[RideLife]

Here's a question for both nominees. How do you intend on tackling the apathy amongst our members? If half the members voted, or even voiced their opinion in the right forum, (that word is not restricted to the internet, it means; 1. A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged), the state of our sport could be much more easily measured.

I don't know what to make of all this 'goings-on'.
But as a MNZ member for maybe 5 years now, I'ld Like to understand more of how thing run, be better informed, and make a wiser vote.

Cost is a big factor meaning a lot of us can't get to MNZ meetings and Be informed.
But would there be an option to make use of 'The Chow's' internet streaming gadgetry, (Thanks for that!), to show us what goes on at these members meetings?

Could it be set up so that only MNZ members could get online access?
Use our MNZ#'s and passwords to gain access through MNZ's or some other web site.

To be informed, and understanding some of this stuff that affects our sport, makes me more wanting to be a part of the solution.
To be in the dark, and only read trash talk on KB..... Makes me want to leave the voting stuff to others who "know" what their doing!

Racey
Alex H MNZ#13989

[BJT666]

Good evening All,

Tonight on this website, Mr Andrew Scrivener has malicously slandered myself and other MNZ members.

This is totally unacceptable to myself and my family.

We have now seen the levels Mr,Scrivener is prepared to sink too.

Mr. Scrivener we will be in touch.

[Kickaha]

Mr. Scrivener we will be in touch.

Bad bad Scrivy:spanking: Looks like you'll be spending time in the naughty chair

[scrivy]

Good evening All,

Tonight on this website, Mr Andrew Scrivener has malicously slandered myself and other MNZ members.

This is totally unacceptable to myself and my family.

We have now seen the levels Mr,Scrivener is prepared to sink too.

Mr. Scrivener we will be in touch.

I look forward to it Jim.
It'll be the first time you've bothered to get off your high horse and talk to one of the 'Have-nots'.

Nothing slanderous in there Jim. Other than absolute FACT!
Get over yourself Mr Tuckerman!!

Scrivy

[old rig]

Good evening All,

Tonight on this website, Mr Andrew Scrivener has malicously slandered myself and other MNZ members.

This is totally unacceptable to myself and my family.

We have now seen the levels Mr,Scrivener is prepared to sink too.

Mr. Scrivener we will be in touch.

what did he say please tell us all

[Marknz]

yep, well that was 3 hours of reading time I'll never get back... :facepalm:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Good evening All,

Tonight on this website, Mr Andrew Scrivener has malicously slandered myself and other MNZ members.

This is totally unacceptable to myself and my family.

We have now seen the levels Mr,Scrivener is prepared to sink too.

Mr. Scrivener we will be in touch.

Get over yourself!

[jellywrestler]

Over and Out posted at 17.09pm,
just past five for some of us; and he's quoting over and out!
6-1 says he's on the Hairdresser Red wines with Crasherfromwayback??

[scrivy]

Good evening All,

Tonight on this website, Mr Andrew Scrivener has malicously slandered myself and other MNZ members.

This is totally unacceptable to myself and my family.

We have now seen the levels Mr,Scrivener is prepared to sink too.

Mr. Scrivener we will be in touch.

Now you have proven uncategorically that you are a total bully Jim.
I can now understand why the MNZ office banned you from entering their premises before you were president, due to your constant attacks and derogatory remarks to staff there and the CEO and president at that time. Your attacks on them never stopped, and again, your attacks haven't yet stopped on myself and Chris.
Your actions on MNZ officials cost MNZ members alot of money in the re-structure you instigated, as you had to pay hush money due to your deluded attacks that were fully documented by staff.
I have a copy Jim.

Codes of conduct and respectability should start from the top. You have made alot of un-true assumptions of me without investigation, and put them up on here as your so-called truths.

I do hope you call me Jim.

[jellywrestler]

some officials are prats
so YOU know watchman then eh?

[scrivy]

For all of you on here, these views are mine only, and do not reflect anyone elses. I am not being a puppet for anyone else. They are solely my views.

I have nominated Chris Lawrance, as I know he can bring respectability to our sport.

Knowing what I do about the current President, I feel strongly that he doesn't act in the appropriate manner becoming of his position, and would like to see him removed. No doubt there are many great things Jim has done, but there is a flip side, and many of these despicable acts (in my view) have since come to light.

Scrivy

[jellywrestler]

Its such a shambles, Dan Stauffer thought it was a joke and thats what all the ozzy riders will hear.


Thanks Graeme!! J



And thanyou again for all your help this year.. For me personally and for the team! Had a great time and looking forward to next year!




Catch ya soon mate!



Dan


, maybe he told you that choppa but I got this from email from him midweek after manfeild, we're hatching a plan already.
Spyda, -the electric spider ltd

[jellywrestler]

I remember Ray Sherman fining me for swearing at another rider

Come on Ian
spill the beans, you can type that word now and won't get a visit from the law...

[budda]

Pete I can just see Gary and Steve calling you a c**T (Not) and remember it's your job , not an unpaid position. On the other hand I could see Barry doing it or John and Mark in the old days LOL

Pete - if I was you, I'd take great umbrage at being called a LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[k14]

Good evening All,

Tonight on this website, Mr Andrew Scrivener has malicously slandered myself and other MNZ members.

This is totally unacceptable to myself and my family.

We have now seen the levels Mr,Scrivener is prepared to sink too.

Mr. Scrivener we will be in touch.
My voting form is sitting on the bench at home with a tick next to Mr Lawrences name. I was considering changing to you after some nicely written points, however after the above you have shown your true colours and I will be sending in the voting form today.

[The Chow]

My voting form is sitting on the bench at home with a tick next to Mr Lawrences name. I was considering changing to you after some nicely written points, however after the above you have shown your true colours and I will be sending in the voting form today.

Hey Kirk , Democracy is good , it gives you a chance make a choice and it is yours. I'm shocked that the whole thing has now got to this point. People are entitled to an opinion as always. However they need to get facts correct. As everyone knows Jim is a friend , but there are times where I just hang my head (he knows that he pisses me off sometimes because I tell him). He has a manner which has always been the same , however it can and does put people off. But you can't take away from him that he does/has done some good things especially when working with Paul Stewart on road racing over the last six years.

Which brings me to a point. The Assault Charge that was mentioned was taken to the Police and investigated , and they found no case to answer as I understand it. Jim told me at the time that it was happening and if something came of it he would have had to step down.

As I said the case was investigated by the police and no case to answer. This is not what Scrivy has said. It is this I imagine is what has got on Jims wick and sent it over the edge. I don't know as Jim has not spoken to me about this .

Anyone that doesn't see that it is a he said she said situation is blind. Anyway it is not my fight , I still around regardless what happens.

[Str8 Jacket]

Dear god, imagine if racing was a "women only" sport...... :facepalm:

I still have no idea who I want to vote for.

[Kickaha]

Dear god, imagine if racing was a "women only" sport...... :facepalm:

Yeah imagine the bitching that would go on then

[Str8 Jacket]

Yeah imagine the bitching that would go on then

Exactly.....

[scrivy]

Which brings me to a point. The Assault Charge that was mentioned was taken to the Police and investigated , and they found no case to answer as I understand it. Jim told me at the time that it was happening and if something came of it he would have had to step down.

As I said the case was investigated by the police and no case to answer. This is not what Scrivy has said. It is this I imagine is what has got on Jims wick and sent it over the edge. I don't know as Jim has not spoken to me about this .

Anyone that doesn't see that it is a he said she said situation is blind. Anyway it is not my fight , I still around regardless what happens.

Hi Ian,

Again, you only got Jims reply.
Why would Jim have to stand down if the event didn't take place? It did take place, exactly as I have stated.
What is amazing - and I did also say this before, is that the Board did NOTHING about it. Absolutely nothing! But they chose to put code of conducts on other people around the same time! That is a double standard, and amounts again to bullying.
Jims remark that there was no case to answer for - again UNTRUE! I will not divulge the police reply on here, but if you want to know, ring me, you know I'll tell you.
Again, why did the Board not take action on a code of conduct charge from Tanias partner against Jim?
That again is another double standard.
MNZ must uphold their mission statement of being 'Fun, Safe and Fair'

You can see where this is going.
As I said, I will not lie about issues. I have stated fact all along.

Scrivy

[Shaun]

Wow, all the politics and personell agend's hiding in this thread really are a turn off for future racers. CLearing the air is one thing, but this is really NOT getting OUR Sport any where guys.

Chow and others have spent a lot of time posting in this thread, ( Positive posts) A shame it has taken so long and such a load of personell agend;s to get the reaction from some on here.

I Put an idea to ALL NZ Race License holders a few years ago, and was totally ignored, the problem with the racing scene in NZ is STILL THE RIDERS

I put an idea forward RE a WEB SITE OR PAGE ON HERE OR ANOTHER SITE where ONLY MNZ LIcense holders could post under the REAL name using there License number to log on so WE could get instant feed back going, and that also was ignored, How many more POSITIVE things/idea's can be ignored before we end up like a CHAIR less world?

QUASI AND BIGGLES FOR ROAD RACE PROMOTERS!!! And KEVIN WAUGH TO WATCH THEM gets my vote.

[ajturbo]

but shaun.... kevin crashes too much.....

sorry kevin, just had too..:facepalm:

[The Chow]

Hi Ian,

Again, you only got Jims reply.
Why would Jim have to stand down if the event didn't take place? It did take place, exactly as I have stated.
What is amazing - and I did also say this before, is that the Board did NOTHING about it. Absolutely nothing! But they chose to put code of conducts on other people around the same time! That is a double standard, and amounts again to bullying.
Jims remark that there was no case to answer for - again UNTRUE! I will not divulge the police reply on here, but if you want to know, ring me, you know I'll tell you.
Again, why did the Board not take action on a code of conduct charge from Tanias partner against Jim?
That again is another double standard.

You can see where this is going.
As I said, I will not lie about issues. I have stated fact all along.

Scrivy

Calm down mate , of course I will support Jim , as I say he has been a good friend to me at times when I needed it (sob sob). I don't care anymore mate what happens , what happens , happens. I can work with a Tuckerman or Lawrance led MNZ , I'm my own person. MNZ is not one person believe it or not. Cheers

[Shaun]

but shaun.... kevin crashes too much.....

sorry kevin, just had too..:facepalm:


Not a bad as me though hahahahahahaa

Read some of Kevins post and insight that goes into them

[jellywrestler]

My voting form is sitting on the bench at home with a tick next to Mr Lawrences name. I was considering changing to you after some nicely written points, however after the above you have shown your true colours and I will be sending in the voting form today.
So captain Kirk. Is that a vote FOR Mr Lawrance (correct spelling) or AGAINST Mr Tuckerman?

[The Chow]

So captain Kirk. Is that a vote FOR Mr Lawrance (correct spelling) or AGAINST Mr Tuckerman?

Beam me up Spyda , I pray that there is intelligent life somewhere out in space because there is bugger all down here on earth:facepalm:

Want to meet up for a beer tomorrow evening?

[k14]

So captain Kirk. Is that a vote FOR Mr Lawrance (correct spelling) or AGAINST Mr Tuckerman?
Good point and probably why I am debating voting at all. The form has sat on the bench for a few days whilst I evaluate what the best outcome is, the fact that I didn't send it straight away shows I was considering the vote and didn't want to hastily make up my mind.

[Str8 Jacket]

Good point and probably why I am debating voting at all. The form has sat on the bench for a few days whilst I evaluate what the best outcome is, the fact that I didn't send it straight away shows I was considering the vote and didn't want to hastily make up my mind.

I am with you. It has been suggested to me that I just send in my form with no vote.... I am of the opinion that if I don't vote I can't really have a say. But who damnit!

[The Chow]

Not a bad as me though hahahahahahaa

Read some of Kevins post and insight that goes into them

Ain't that the truth mate ;-)

Hasn't Bret Glazer set up such a website , like you originally talked about?

[Biggles08]

Ain't that the truth mate ;-)

Hasn't Bret Glazer set up such a website , like you originally talked about?

yea mate...www.kiwiracer.co.nz. But as Shaun has said, apathy of the riders make it a very quiet place these days.

[White trash]

Pete I can just see Gary and Steve calling you a c**T (Not) and remember it's your job , not an unpaid position. On the other hand I could see Barry doing it or John and Mark in the old days LOL

I've personally been witness to Garry calling Pete a cunt. It was the funniest fucken thing.......

[White trash]

yea mate...www.kiwiracer.co.nz. But as Shaun has said, apathy of the riders make it a very quiet place these days.

Riders have much better things to do than post on websites actually mate. Probably less than 5% of road racers and even less off road racers actually share their voice on here.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I've personally been witness to Garry calling Pete a cunt. It was the funniest fucken thing.......

Not nearly as funny as the look on his face when I return the compliment...

[Biggles08]

Riders have much better things to do than post on websites actually mate. Probably less than 5% of road racers and even less off road racers actually share their voice on here.

Persactly! I think this was the original point tho Jimmy...and in fact I completely understand why people don't want to get involved in a thread like this, but the original idea of the website was to provide a place to share and learn about things like 'how MNZ works' and also a forum to share ideas by the riders for the riders without the sideshow that KB often becomes.

anyway, back to the slagging people :yes:

[Dodgy]

Hey, I have noticed the absence of Pat on the last few pages while Jim has been logged in and posting - see, guys do have trouble multi tasking!!!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Want to meet up for a beer tomorrow evening?

Get the fucker a nice Red.

[White trash]

anyway, back to the slagging people :yes:

Screw you, poolick.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Hey Pete , riders don't like officials and never have. Nothing new there. But they are unfortunately necessary , Anyway everyone is allowed a point of view , glad to hear you are enjoying the VMX , actually whens the next meeting?

Not always true. Guys like Jim Dougherty are true gentlemen and always a pleasure to deal with. It's no more difficult to be nice to people as it is to be a prick and/or a bully.

As far as the VMX thing goes...I was hoping to do the last round of the National series...but it's on a bloody Saturday! If you ever want to come out for a blast...you're most welcome to ride one of my bikes!

[scrivy]

Hey, I have noticed the absence of Pat on the last few pages while Jim has been logged in and posting - see, guys do have trouble multi tasking!!!

LOL!!!
Both called me Andrew too!! Only my dad did that 10 years ago!

Scrivy

[scrivy]

Not always true. Guys like Jim Dougherty are true gentlemen and always a pleasure to deal with. It's no more difficult to be nice to people as it is to be a prick and/or a bully.


I concur. Mr Dougherty attended our NZSRA AGM last year. He is a gentleman and a much needed person in our sport.

Scrivy

[wharfy]

Good point and probably why I am debating voting at all. The form has sat on the bench for a few days whilst I evaluate what the best outcome is, the fact that I didn't send it straight away shows I was considering the vote and didn't want to hastily make up my mind.

Excellent, evaluating is what people SHOULD do. It is however VERY important that you DO VOTE !

In all the organizations I've been involved in from prison's to Frigate's, IT departments, or sawmill's the ones that were most efficient and ultimately successful had a leader that knew they enjoyed the support and trust of the "crew" .

Unless we vote in significant numbers the president can not be sure they DO have the support and trust of the members.


In an ideal world we would have detailed "policy documents" to read well before the election, with details about what the plan is and how it is going to be implemented. (I for one don't like surprises !)

In the absence of such details we are reduced to deciding based on what we have gleaned through forums like this one or our experiences in dealing with the candidates or the opinions of others we know (and whose advice we know we can trust).

At the very least you can gauge the "style" of the candidates and pick one that is compatible with the environment you would like to play in, and for most of us membership of MNZ is so we can "play" . There is a very small number of people whose livelihood depends on the direction that MNZ takes and they most probably have made up their mind how they will vote (if they are MNZ members).

If you still can't decide send me a PM and I'll help you :)

[Rodger96]

Can I ask where is this all going?to me It seems that a few people that are Involved in all this are digging there grave's deeper,People look at this site and must think that "us" road racer's are a bunch of girly fag's that bitch and moan.doyou see the Top rider's of all classes here Moaning?Sort yah shit out guy's its getting harder for clubs to source Officials and flaggies and run meeting's because of this recession noncence.Why make it harder??

[budda]

Can I ask where is this all going?to me It seems that a few people that are Involved in all this are digging there grave's deeper,People look at this site and must think that "us" road racer's are a bunch of girly fag's that bitch and moan.doyou see the Top rider's of all classes here Moaning?Sort yah shit out guy's its getting harder for clubs to source Officials and flaggies and run meeting's because of this recession noncence.Why make it harder??

ROGER THAT !!!!!!!!!
Oi, wheres me firewood ????????????????

[discodan]

Good evening All,

Tonight on this website, Mr Andrew Scrivener has malicously slandered myself and other MNZ members.

This is totally unacceptable to myself and my family.

We have now seen the levels Mr,Scrivener is prepared to sink too.

Mr. Scrivener we will be in touch.

Thanks for that Jim, now I have made up my mind I can finally stop reading this crap!

[sidecar bob]

Thanks for that Jim, now I have made up my mind I can finally stop reading this crap!

Whereas I will need to keep reading it, because try as I may, I just cant find any malicious slander from Mr Andrew Scrivener, only facts & truth.

[Rodger96]

ROGER THAT !!!!!!!!!
Oi, wheres me firewood ????????????????

Haha Ill organise that now boss!Move that Honda 500-4 engine so I dont trip over and break my other leg....

[fossil]

For all of you on here, these views are mine only, and do not reflect anyone elses. I am not being a puppet for anyone else. They are solely my views...

Yeah right, thats exactly how it looks.

[budda]

Haha Ill organise that now boss!Move that Honda 500-4 engine so I dont trip over and break my other leg....

Muppet - thats a 400/4, ya 1 legged plonker

Wood should be great burning, been drying for the last 2 years !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Quasievil]

Wow, all the politics and personell agend's hiding in this thread really are a turn off for future racers. CLearing the air is one thing, but this is really NOT getting OUR Sport any where guys.

Chow and others have spent a lot of time posting in this thread, ( Positive posts) A shame it has taken so long and such a load of personell agend;s to get the reaction from some on here.

I Put an idea to ALL NZ Race License holders a few years ago, and was totally ignored, the problem with the racing scene in NZ is STILL THE RIDERS

I put an idea forward RE a WEB SITE OR PAGE ON HERE OR ANOTHER SITE where ONLY MNZ LIcense holders could post under the REAL name using there License number to log on so WE could get instant feed back going, and that also was ignored, How many more POSITIVE things/idea's can be ignored before we end up like a CHAIR less world?

QUASI AND BIGGLES FOR ROAD RACE PROMOTERS!!! And KEVIN WAUGH TO WATCH THEM gets my vote.

We started www.kiwiracer.co.nz to help in a "out of public view" discussion by parties with a vested interest, i.e racers etc and it attracted a few people sure but it wasnt really adopted by many, and its kinda dead, Im not investing time into it to be fair as Im flat out doing other stuff someone can buy it from me tho and work it better possibly, there was a backroom where only MNZ license holders can get into.

I have some ideas about the road racing scene here in NZ sure, I express them now and then usually to the sound of gunfire coming my way lol

[jellywrestler]

Beam me up Spyda , I pray that there is intelligent life somewhere out in space because there is bugger all down here on earth:facepalm:

Want to meet up for a beer tomorrow evening?

WooHoo 28 pages and I finally get asked out!!!

[jellywrestler]

Wood should be great burning, been drying for the last 2 years !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hey this is not a garage sale site, it's a serious/tragicomic site don't you know!

[Kickaha]

I am not an exec member, so I have no sway in the NZSRA
Have you been an exec member in the last couple of years? if not why were you chosen to represent NZSRA at the MNZ AGM last year? or was that just you could have a go about the suspension of Meads licence?


I dont do the Winter meetings, so i can't complain. What I will say to you though Ian, is that it was not the NZSRA that committed to doing the VMCC rounds last year. It was an individual that shouldn't have commented for others.

Since I've been involved with sidecar racing I have been told on numerous occasions by NI Sidecar guys how lucky we are to have the amount of sidecar racing we do in the South at club events and how they would like more in the North

So yes a person took it upon himself to see what he could do about that and got three rounds at Vic club meetings during their winter series something the NZSRA exec or membership seemed to be incapable of doing

The NZSRA had plenty of time before the events to tell the club they wouldn't support them if they didn't want to do them

Good on the teams that made the effort to turn up


You stated (I have the written proof) that if you do not compete in all 5 rounds, you will not have a championship.

Yet when I asked for it he was unable to produce the rule that required us to compete at all 5 rounds



Also, it is MNZ’s understanding that several prominent members of the NZSRA campaigned to scuttle the 2010 Nationals. This was relayed to us by several sidecar competitors and we have no reason to disbelieve them.

What reason would you have to believe them over anyone else?

[jellywrestler]

Good on the teams that bothered to turn up

Wrong choice of words Kickyboy, made the effort to turn up is betterer.

[The Chow]

We started www.kiwiracer.co.nz to help in a "out of public view" discussion by parties with a vested interest, i.e racers etc and it attracted a few people sure but it wasnt really adopted by many, and its kinda dead, Im not investing time into it to be fair as Im flat out doing other stuff someone can buy it from me tho and work it better possibly, there was a backroom where only MNZ license holders can get into.

I have some ideas about the road racing scene here in NZ sure, I express them now and then usually to the sound of gunfire coming my way lol

Ha you bought my domain name last year , when it became redundant. Mate good on you for giving it a go , ideas best you send those ideas to Pete Ramage mate , cause it won't go anywhere here. Bang Bang :-)

[The Chow]

Wrong choice of words Kickyboy, made the effort to turn up is betterer.
Much more betterest

[The Chow]

WooHoo 28 pages and I finally get asked out!!!

Well do you want to have a couple down at the Tawa local? or what?

30 Pages come on people lets try for 50 , thread is getting boring

[Kickaha]

Wrong choice of words Kickyboy, made the effort to turn up is betterer.

edited GFY :motu:

[Rodger96]

Muppet - thats a 400/4, ya 1 legged plonker

Wood should be great burning, been drying for the last 2 years !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah Supose is it is a 400/4 I Remember selling it to you some years ago

[Ronin]

So yes a person took it upon himself to see what he could do about that and got three rounds at Vic club meetings during their winter series something the NZSRA exec or membership seemed to be incapable of doing

The NZSRA had plenty of time before the events to tell the club they wouldn't support them if they didn't want to do them



The then (I think) president refused point blank to even discuss the invite to the VMCC series. But then showed up to race.

[scracha]

R.i.p. Mnz

[Kickaha]

R.i.p. Mnz

You're dreaming, like it or loathe it, that's all we have

[jellywrestler]

What does Mo Haley think of the whole Sidecar thing.
84 years old, been doing chairs since the fifties and there are still machines of his on the track racing
Life Member of the NEW ZEALAND SIDECAR RACING ASSOCIATION
He must have got the latest newsletters and given his thoughts to someone?????

[sugilite]

Thank goodness the pollies have bought back the biff to KB! :woohoo: The stifiling onset of political correctness was making the site bring there for a while. There is gold to be mined in this thread for sure. :sherlock:

Just a comment on a post from yesterday regarding a national road race series direction poll only being open only to nat competitors. I feel this is akin to preaching to the converted. Club race numbers are absolutely booming and the pits are packed, the nats, well yeah, hmm:facepalm:. So why is there currently such a small conversion rate from clubmans to national level racing? Well, obviously the recession and many other factors are coming into play. I believe you will get more useful info out of asking the club racers for their opinions and reasons as to why they do not compete in the nats, get that info and go from there.

There is so much of a squeeze on entertainment $$, especially with the recession blah, blah. I have supported and helped my wife with her market stalls for many, many years, as a result I've attended a mind numbing amount of entertainment events over all sorts of disables, sports and hobbies etc and witnessed a fair few well run events, and seen what "works". After going to the nats at Manfield, it's not hard to see why the spectator numbers are best described as modest, thats because the event needs to appeal to a broader cross section of people, like FAMILIES and partners of racing enthusiasts, and I'm not just talking about putting on a bouncy castle and a coffee tent! Getting other interesting clubs to put on demonstrations of what they do, like medieval jousting, they create massive interest where ever I've seen them, and I believe they often don't charge for doing it either. People just love watching other people smash each other over! :woohoo:
Even a an idea of getting a local Holden and Ford V8 racing teams to set up a display and play on the ford vs holden grudge race at lunch may have merit. Put on a good enough event and attract market stalls, women and kids love that stuff, and it's as a stall holder not unusual to pay $100 to $130 per day for a 3x3 meter stall and have 150++ stalls turn up, manfields definitely got the room and the club rakes in an extra $30,000 + in extra revenue while adding entertainment value. I know one particular organizer of such events (not personal friend or anything!), born to do the job, and I "think" she works for peanuts compared to most professional organizers. Usually I don't bother posting ideas like this in KB, but since movers and shakers are contributing, I thought I'd give it a go :innocent:

[racer40]

To answer a couple of questions from awhile ago:
Do we need a licence increase? NO .
I dont really think there needs to be much change in the club racing scene as there are plenty of events and plenty of competitors attending them.
I agree the SI guys have been great at getting young riders into the sport. There have been some up North, including Avalon Biddle and Daniel Mettam, who learnt their trade in Buckets. I personally have been inviting young MX riders to have a go on my bucket, a couple have and enjoyed it but they enjoy the MX as well and cant do both.
I too have worked with Jim in the past setting up Yamaha promotional tents at events with no problems. However things turned to custard when I couldnt do all the National rounds.
Chris

[jellywrestler]

custard
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Custard...

[Ronin]

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM Custard...

Custard Wrestling?

[jellywrestler]

Custard Wrestling?
What time and what do I wear?

[scrivy]

What time and what do I wear?

This is you to a tee!

[Ronin]

What time and what do I wear?

I'll check with Dee. She's in charge of the camera.

[jellywrestler]

This is you to a tee!
mate I was ten years ahead of him with that one, made do with the Y fronts I was wearing on the day thanks

[CHOPPA]

Thank goodness the pollies have bought back the biff to KB! :woohoo: The stifiling onset of political correctness was making the site bring there for a while. There is gold to be mined in this thread for sure. :sherlock:

Just a comment on a post from yesterday regarding a national road race series direction poll only being open only to nat competitors. I feel this is akin to preaching to the converted. Club race numbers are absolutely booming and the pits are packed, the nats, well yeah, hmm:facepalm:. So why is there currently such a small conversion rate from clubmans to national level racing? Well, obviously the recession and many other factors are coming into play. I believe you will get more useful info out of asking the club racers for their opinions and reasons as to why they do not compete in the nats, get that info and go from there.

There is so much of a squeeze on entertainment $$, especially with the recession blah, blah. I have supported and helped my wife with her market stalls for many, many years, as a result I've attended a mind numbing amount of entertainment events over all sorts of disables, sports and hobbies etc and witnessed a fair few well run events, and seen what "works". After going to the nats at Manfield, it's not hard to see why the spectator numbers are best described as modest, thats because the event needs to appeal to a broader cross section of people, like FAMILIES and partners of racing enthusiasts, and I'm not just talking about putting on a bouncy castle and a coffee tent! Getting other interesting clubs to put on demonstrations of what they do, like medieval jousting, they create massive interest where ever I've seen them, and I believe they often don't charge for doing it either. People just love watching other people smash each other over! :woohoo:
Even a an idea of getting a local Holden and Ford V8 racing teams to set up a display and play on the ford vs holden grudge race at lunch may have merit. Put on a good enough event and attract market stalls, women and kids love that stuff, and it's as a stall holder not unusual to pay $100 to $130 per day for a 3x3 meter stall and have 150++ stalls turn up, manfields definitely got the room and the club rakes in an extra $30,000 + in extra revenue while adding entertainment value. I know one particular organizer of such events (not personal friend or anything!), born to do the job, and I "think" she works for peanuts compared to most professional organizers. Usually I don't bother posting ideas like this in KB, but since movers and shakers are contributing, I thought I'd give it a go :innocent:

Those are some good ideas! There needs to be some thinking outside the square. A DJ and a freestyle rider to entertain while the pick up truck goes out or the ambo goes out or something..

THe reason why most club races dont do the nats is cause theres only a handful of people capable of getting around the track in 115% of Andrews time. Tell him to slow down

[CHOPPA]

The grass is always greener....

http://thomasr.org/blog/2011/04/fixing-motorcycle-racing-in-australia/

[jellywrestler]

THe reason why most club races dont do the nats is cause theres only a handful of people capable of getting around the track in 115% of Andrews time. Tell him to slow down that's pretty well on the money, most don't want to get out of their comfort zone.
I rocked up to levels for the nats, talked to a local who was pretty quick in the winter races who said he was the man when he was in the top three, wasn't interested in his mates seeing him 10th or similar so didn't even bother.
Reality is Mr Choppa, even if there were two rounds for the nationals what other superbikes would be out there compared with the five rounds???
I can think of sweet FA, Tony Rees maybe, he's happy with doing the odd meeting but who else?
And if it were two rounds who would bother (individual or importer) building up a bike for that?

[jellywrestler]

A DJ and a freestyle rider to entertain while the pick up truck goes out or the ambo goes out or something..


Morris Dancers at high noon

[ashracer]

What a great read this thread has been, i have read all 31 pages. I will be back about 10pm friday night. The alter ego Pat Watchman might appear after a few beers about then for a rant.
Keep up the release of facts Mr Scrivvy, I reckon you have police reports, emails, letters & all sorts stashed away.
This is far better than watching TV.

[steveyb]

Those are some good ideas! There needs to be some thinking outside the square. A DJ and a freestyle rider to entertain while the pick up truck goes out or the ambo goes out or something..

THe reason why most club races dont do the nats is cause theres only a handful of people capable of getting around the track in 115% of Andrews time. Tell him to slow down

I have been holding my water and just enjoying the entertainment. It is a bit schadenfreude type entertainment, but what the hey.

I wanted to comment on the second sentence by Choppa.

One of the big observations I have made in the past three years of running Moto Academy NZ and looking at riders and looking around at racing is that I think one of the biggest issues that faces Motorcycle Roadracing (can't comment on other aspects, but I would suspect they aren't too far different) and something that very few people think about and appreciate I suspect, (this sentence is too long!!) is that the VAST majority of participants treat this game as a hobby (there, finished).
Very, very, very few treat it as a sport. Even a large number of the riders at the national level only treat it as a hobby, not as a sport.

Go on, look at yourself if you were just affronted.

How much do you train? I mean real training.
How much do you practice?
Do you attend international events inorder to match yourself against the best elsewhere. (And don't go on about the cost. Many other sports people find a way).
What other advice, input etc do you take to improve? Sports psychology, massage, yoga, stretching etc etc.
Do you have a coach?
Do you study the sport? Other than watching MotoGP on the couch with a few beers?

Look at any competitive national level runner, rower, tri-athlete, football player, rugby player, etc etc etc.
Look at the training and practice they do. Shit even a local club rugby or football or netball player will be doing heaps more training than the majority of roadracers. Clearly this is mostly true of club riders, but even at national level it is true. Also clearly some riders don't need to do much extra, they just have it, but treating it as a sport is also more than doing training. There are the presentation and preparation aspects as well.

Until the majority, not the minority of the national level riders are treating it as a real sport, then I believe that forward movement will be stifled and sponsors will continue to regard it as a hobby activity too.

Why should anyone in organisation put in the hard yards (and they really can be hard yards) when the majority of the riders don't? (and don't go on about how much money you spent doing it and par infra you must be dedicated, cos that is only one aspect and if you spent all that money without doing the other hard yards, isn't that just money wasted?).

Can, open, hmmm worms........

[Biggles08]

The grass is always greener....

http://thomasr.org/blog/2011/04/fixing-motorcycle-racing-in-australia/

Interesting read...I especially liked the part about riders having to be a marketing commodity themselves also.

[old rig]

What a great read this thread has been, i have read all 31 pages. I will be back about 10pm friday night. The alter ego Pat Watchman might appear after a few beers about then for a rant.
Keep up the release of facts Mr Scrivvy, I reckon you have police reports, emails, letters & all sorts stashed away.
This is far better than watching TV.

i think what mr scrivvy has stashed away:shutup: would get him arested :yes:

[Biggles08]

I have been holding my water and just enjoying the entertainment. It is a bit schadenfreude type entertainment, but what the hey.

I wanted to comment on the second sentence by Choppa.

One of the big observations I have made in the past three years of running Moto Academy NZ and looking at riders and looking around at racing is that I think one of the biggest issues that faces Motorcycle Roadracing (can't comment on other aspects, but I would suspect they aren't too far different) and something that very few people think about and appreciate I suspect, (this sentence is too long!!) is that the VAST majority of participants treat this game as a hobby (there, finished).
Very, very, very few treat it as a sport. Even a large number of the riders at the national level only treat it as a hobby, not as a sport.

Go on, look at yourself if you were just affronted.

How much do you train? I mean real training.
How much do you practice?
Do you attend international events inorder to match yourself against the best elsewhere. (And don't go on about the cost. Many other sports people find a way).
What other advice, input etc do you take to improve? Sports psychology, massage, yoga, stretching etc etc.
Do you have a coach?
Do you study the sport? Other than watching MotoGP on the couch with a few beers?

Look at any competitive national level runner, rower, tri-athlete, football player, rugby player, etc etc etc.
Look at the training and practice they do. Shit even a local club rugby or football or netball player will be doing heaps more training than the majority of roadracers. Clearly this is mostly true of club riders, but even at national level it is true. Also clearly some riders don't need to do much extra, they just have it, but treating it as a sport is also more than doing training. There are the presentation and preparation aspects as well.

Until the majority, not the minority of the national level riders are treating it as a real sport, then I believe that forward movement will be stifled and sponsors will continue to regard it as a hobby activity too.

Why should anyone in organisation put in the hard yards (and they really can be hard yards) when the majority of the riders don't? (and don't go on about how much money you spent doing it and par infra you must be dedicated, cos that is only one aspect and if you spent all that money without doing the other hard yards, isn't that just money wasted?).

Can, open, hmmm worms........

Mate, you are 100% correct about this. I don't really think its the core problem for no sponsors etc, although in a certain way it is. I do think most don't give it the 100% commitment that they should/could and would rather others make their bike 2kg's lighter rather than eat less pies and train more.

I know of a few at the top of the nationals that do train hard however, but the majority probably don't. This is one thing I have already decided on doing this year in the off season more of. I have just joined up in a football club so my ring will be hanging out for the next month or two until I get to the fitness level I should be at.

Anyway kind of digressing I know but riders do need to take it more seriously and if they did I'm sure we would get more voting too.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I concur. Mr Dougherty attended our NZSRA AGM last year. He is a gentleman and a much needed person in our sport.

Scrivy

And the bad guys?

If you give them enough rope...

Sooner is better.

[wharfy]

Mate, you are 100% correct about this. I don't really think its the core problem for no sponsors etc, although in a certain way it is. I do think most don't give it the 100% commitment that they should/could and would rather others make their bike 2kg's lighter rather than eat less pies and train more.

I know of a few at the top of the nationals that do train hard however, but the majority probably don't. This is one thing I have already decided on doing this year in the off season more of. I have just joined up in a football club so my ring will be hanging out for the next month or two until I get to the fitness level I should be at.

Anyway kind of digressing I know but riders do need to take it more seriously and if they did I'm sure we would get more voting too.

I've been cutting down on pies and getting massages !!!

[jellywrestler]

pies
MMMMMMMMMMMMM pies...

[lostinflyz]

long speil......


you have a point but this is almost a team sport. Its just not possible to single handedly take the time to build, develop and maintain a bike, train properly and work to make a living (assuming you even possess the skills to do all 3). Its also important to remember this is almost (bar one really) a completely amateur sport (i.e. no one does it as a job, even part time).

Very few people have the money to purchase a bike, hire a crew and employ trainers ect on the world scene (and be competitive), let alone our little corner of the world. How many top level riders struggle to find rides in so many different series because they just can't bring the funding to make it happen.

back to bitching people, bring on friday drinks i say

[ajturbo]

I've been cutting down on pies and getting messages !!!


messages.. lack of pies...

just what is our ... hobby ... turning into when wharfy has been reduced to this....:facepalm:

[Shaun]

ATTN CHRIS LAWRANCE


Please elaberate a LOT on your buisness experience

Your Profile on www.mnz.co.nz only shows that you are a racer who has travelled the world a bit ( Good on ya for that) And goals for the future based on what Scrivy has been saying on here for a long time, funny how he wrote your profile by the look of it?

JT has done huge good things for OUR sport over many many years, ( YES I consider him a friend) SO I would really like to see this carried out proffesionaly rather than the way it has become on here with all the politics and personell issue;s

I for one have emailed JT and asked/suggested that he 100% Stays of this site with all the rubbish being thrown around, " He said she said" Bollocks.

I Know I have typed some SAD shite on here over the last few years, but I DID have a very BAD Head injury, ( AND SHORT MAN COMPLEXES) and have lost one sponsor and one old friend after 25 years of being involved in racing here in NZ due to my RANTING about shite?????

CHRIS, if you are serious about this roll ask your Friend and Promoter to STOP bringing all the garbage to this Public Forum and take care of it all in a PROFESSIONAL BUISNESS like manner, Scrivy is a buisness man and know,s how to act accordingly, and this is NOT the way guy,s.

PLEASE THINK OF THE FUTURE OF OUR SPORT AND THE YOUTH READING THIS

[sidecar bob]

Im not answering on behalf of Chris & im sure he will be along in due course.
I do know Chris has run his own very succesful business for a number of years associated with the building trade.
Also, regarding some of Scrivys posts. They contain FACTS people should know before voting for a candidate. If people are fine with the behaviour of a candidate they should vote for him, but it is important that they know who they are voting for.
Of course Scrivy wrote the profile in the voting pack, he signed it so thats hardly a revelation. It was a requirement & also a requirment to be a maximun of 300 words, why was Jim afforded two pages then? Presidential preferance?
Scrivy not behaving like a businessman??? Should he just lie down & be rolled? or grow some balls & have the gumption to tell the truth instead of cowering in the corner, id say he's behaving like a consumate businessman.
P.S, Wheres Billy & RT when Jim needs them?

[Crasherfromwayback]

AND THE YOUTH READING THIS

Don't be silly. Today's yoof can't read. You've seen their pathetic tags on the buildings!

[steveyb]

Its also important to remember this is almost (bar one really) a completely amateur sport (i.e. no one does it as a job, even part time).

Very few people have the money to purchase a bike, hire a crew and employ trainers ect on the world scene (and be competitive), let alone our little corner of the world. How many top level riders struggle to find rides in so many different series because they just can't bring the funding to make it happen.



Sorry Tim, but it is precisely statements and attitudes like that (and not pointed at anyone in particular let alone you) that allow people to rationalise not treating this as a true sport. There are ways and means and it does not always take money. Ask the leading NZ amateur sailors or golfers how they manage.

[scott411]

Sorry Tim, but it is precisely statements and attitudes like that (and not pointed at anyone in particular let alone you) that allow people to rationalise not treating this as a true sport. There are ways and means and it does not always take money. Ask the leading NZ amateur sailors or golfers how they manage.

im not to sure he is not closer to the mark, anyone that does not call motorcycle racing a true sport is a tosser imo, and if you put any of these tossers on a bike and see how tired they are after 1 lap at slow speeds they normally never mention it again.

but we are not a professional sport in NZ, most of the riders could probebly loose a few pounds, eat a bit healthier, and train a bit more,

but you look at any rugby team below professional ranks, (heartland championship, top club level) and you will find alot of people in those teams that are like our motorcycle racers, there because they love playing the game, as we love racing motorcycles around in circles,

in the end it takes alot of money to do what we do, and if someone thinks less of me for turning up a few kg's overweight, or fading at the end of races they can go stick it, because i am doing it from my wallet, and have a huge smile on my face while doing it.

[The Chow]

im not to sure he is not closer to the mark, anyone that does not call motorcycle racing a true sport is a tosser imo, and if you put any of these tossers on a bike and see how tired they are after 1 lap at slow speeds they normally never mention it again.

but we are not a professional sport in NZ, most of the riders could probebly loose a few pounds, eat a bit healthier, and train a bit more,

but you look at any rugby team below professional ranks, (heartland championship, top club level) and you will find alot of people in those teams that are like our motorcycle racers, there because they love playing the game, as we love racing motorcycles around in circles,

in the end it takes alot of money to do what we do, and if someone thinks less of me for turning up a few kg's overweight, or fading at the end of races they can go stick it, because i am doing it from my wallet, and have a huge smile on my face while doing it.

Fucken A Scott , thats exactly why we should do it. IT IS FUN!!!! First. If you are good enough and WANT to take it further then it is up to YOU!

Fun first /Fame (if you are good enough) later not the other way. So can we just get over ourselves and get out and enjoy this great sport no matter if its Road,Dirt,Sidecars or what ever. This sport will NEVER be professional in this country (like the majority of the world or at least in the southern hemisphere). Run teams that's a great , but remember the FUN side of things ,people are just too serious and need to get over themselves.

[Crasherfromwayback]

in the end it takes alot of money to do what we do, and if someone thinks less of me for turning up a few kg's overweight, or fading at the end of races they can go stick it, because i am doing it from my wallet, and have a huge smile on my face while doing it.

Well said.

[codgyoleracer]

I have been holding my water and just enjoying the entertainment. It is a bit schadenfreude type entertainment, but what the hey.

I wanted to comment on the second sentence by Choppa.

One of the big observations I have made in the past three years of running Moto Academy NZ and looking at riders and looking around at racing is that I think one of the biggest issues that faces Motorcycle Roadracing (can't comment on other aspects, but I would suspect they aren't too far different) and something that very few people think about and appreciate I suspect, (this sentence is too long!!) is that the VAST majority of participants treat this game as a hobby (there, finished).
Very, very, very few treat it as a sport. Even a large number of the riders at the national level only treat it as a hobby, not as a sport.

Go on, look at yourself if you were just affronted.

How much do you train? I mean real training.
How much do you practice?
Do you attend international events inorder to match yourself against the best elsewhere. (And don't go on about the cost. Many other sports people find a way).
What other advice, input etc do you take to improve? Sports psychology, massage, yoga, stretching etc etc.
Do you have a coach?
Do you study the sport? Other than watching MotoGP on the couch with a few beers?

Look at any competitive national level runner, rower, tri-athlete, football player, rugby player, etc etc etc.
Look at the training and practice they do. Shit even a local club rugby or football or netball player will be doing heaps more training than the majority of roadracers. Clearly this is mostly true of club riders, but even at national level it is true. Also clearly some riders don't need to do much extra, they just have it, but treating it as a sport is also more than doing training. There are the presentation and preparation aspects as well.

Until the majority, not the minority of the national level riders are treating it as a real sport, then I believe that forward movement will be stifled and sponsors will continue to regard it as a hobby activity too.

Why should anyone in organisation put in the hard yards (and they really can be hard yards) when the majority of the riders don't? (and don't go on about how much money you spent doing it and par infra you must be dedicated, cos that is only one aspect and if you spent all that money without doing the other hard yards, isn't that just money wasted?).

Can, open, hmmm worms........



(I like my "Hobby" - & dont you dare try to turn me into a professional sportsman, as it would simply spoil all the fun :-)

ON THE BRIGHT SIDE THOUGH
YOU'RE FAT & OLD, - WHERE AS IM JUST OLD

[wharfy]

messages.. lack of pies...

just what is our ... hobby ... turning into when wharfy has been reduced to this....:facepalm:

I can't afford massages so have to make do with messages (mostly from computers - I haven't got any friends) :(

Of course the pies I do consume come from an award winning bakery :first: Oh, and with a motorcycle park right outside :)

[Kiwi Graham]

Of course it is a sport…………A sport I thoroughly enjoy taking part in, yes it’s a hobby, one I choose as my main pastime (in the summer).

There are hundreds of ‘sports’ played at an amateur level, a lot of these same ‘sports’ are also played at a professional level too. It doesn’t diminish the importance of any sport if its competed at the amateur level.

We don’t have enough (one I think) riders who are solely paid to ride their motorbike so we can’t call NZ nationals a professional sport, nor is it ever likely to be.

None of the above is to say why we shouldn’t run our sport in as professional way as possible. Training our officials (which will hopefully breed consistency) will go along way to achieving this, supporting those that put their time and energy into organising events is paramount because without their efforts nothing will happen.

Riders you may have to sit down to read this……….Its not all about you!
Many more people get similar pleasure out of ‘taking part’ without riding a motorbike!

So when we are talking to the two candidates about ‘what are you going to do for our sport’ it is more than just riding the bike.
What about money/resources towards training Marshalls, providing safety equipment, subsidising the cost of NI rounds (did you know it cost in excess of 60k to run a National round at HD!!)

Why don’t we bring the washing in guys (so much seems to be yesterdays news anyway) and ask poignant questions of the candidates while we have the opportunity?

KG

[budda]

P.S, Wheres Billy & RT when Jim needs them?

Be careful what you wish for - Billy has had 'puter issues since Minefeild, but is close to being back on-line ..... I can hear the click of the magazine loading from here ......

[budda]

of course it is a sport…………a sport i thoroughly enjoy taking part in, yes it’s a hobby, one i choose as my main pastime (in the summer).

Why don’t we bring the washing in guys (so much seems to be yesterdays news anyway) and ask poignant questions of the candidates while we have to opportunity?

Kg

THANKYOU Sir

[Ronin]

This thread is more awesome than a truck full of spastics.

[wharfy]

I have been holding my water and just enjoying the entertainment. It is a bit schadenfreude type entertainment, but what the hey.

I wanted to comment on the second sentence by Choppa.

One of the big observations I have made in the past three years of running Moto Academy NZ and looking at riders and looking around at racing is that I think one of the biggest issues that faces Motorcycle Roadracing (can't comment on other aspects, but I would suspect they aren't too far different) and something that very few people think about and appreciate I suspect, (this sentence is too long!!) is that the VAST majority of participants treat this game as a hobby (there, finished).
Very, very, very few treat it as a sport. Even a large number of the riders at the national level only treat it as a hobby, not as a sport.

Go on, look at yourself if you were just affronted.

How much do you train? I mean real training.
How much do you practice?
Do you attend international events inorder to match yourself against the best elsewhere. (And don't go on about the cost. Many other sports people find a way).
What other advice, input etc do you take to improve? Sports psychology, massage, yoga, stretching etc etc.
Do you have a coach?
Do you study the sport? Other than watching MotoGP on the couch with a few beers?

Look at any competitive national level runner, rower, tri-athlete, football player, rugby player, etc etc etc.
Look at the training and practice they do. Shit even a local club rugby or football or netball player will be doing heaps more training than the majority of roadracers. Clearly this is mostly true of club riders, but even at national level it is true. Also clearly some riders don't need to do much extra, they just have it, but treating it as a sport is also more than doing training. There are the presentation and preparation aspects as well.

Until the majority, not the minority of the national level riders are treating it as a real sport, then I believe that forward movement will be stifled and sponsors will continue to regard it as a hobby activity too.

Why should anyone in organisation put in the hard yards (and they really can be hard yards) when the majority of the riders don't? (and don't go on about how much money you spent doing it and par infra you must be dedicated, cos that is only one aspect and if you spent all that money without doing the other hard yards, isn't that just money wasted?).

Can, open, hmmm worms........

I have to say in my case this is dead right.

When I played rugby (at club level - my rugby was almost as crap as my riding :) I put in a LOT more effort than I do for racing. I enjoyed playing rugby for a whole host of reasons, but I NEVER came of the field with my hands trembling from adrenalin, that happens after almost every race !!!
I know that I should eat less exercise more and get some professional coaching, but I'd rather spend money on one of those sexy carbon-fiber front guards that are on trade me :)

p.s. I know they are outside the rules, but if I do get one I'll worry about that if I ever get a podium

[sidecar bob]

This thread is more awesome than a truck full of spastics.

Mmmm, Spastics. . . . .
Its also better than falling into a barrell full of nipples & coming up sucking your thumb!!
Sorry Spyda.

[jellywrestler]

Question time.
It is my understanding that with the recent trip the Sidecars took to Aussie to compete at the Barry Sheene memorial meeting, with freight entry fees etc paid for from over the ditch that there was to a reciprocal trip for the Aussies to come over here and race.
When and where is this being looked at happening; and where will the funds be sourced to cover this venture?

[jellywrestler]

nipples
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM nipples...


Doh, now I've got a woody!

[Ronin]

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM nipples...


Doh, now I've got a woody!

Bit early for a Bourbon.

[jellywrestler]

Bit early for a Bourbon.
Anyone that knows me knows that I don't drink spirits though

[Ronin]

Anyone that knows me knows that I don't drink spirits though

So you have a spare woody?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Anyone that knows me knows that I don't drink spirits though

You should try Red Wine mate.

[jellywrestler]

You should try Red Wine mate.
Last time I had red wine I ended up listening to Englebert Humperdinck, and started liking it. No way thanks!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Fair enough too.

[scrivy]

Motorcycling New Zealand was advised that Mr Chris Lawrance was about to undergo major surgery (Kidney replacement). After doing some investigation, it became apparent that his condition could effect his ability to ride.
He was still working, still driving, and not on ACC or a sickness benefit - but it could affect his racing??? How did you assume that Jim??
Therefore under it's 'Duty of Care', MNZ put a hold on Mr Lawrance's licence and advised him he would need to supply a "Medical Certificate" before his licence would be released.



Also, it is MNZ’s understanding that several prominent members of the NZSRA campaigned to scuttle the 2010 Nationals. This was relayed to us by several sidecar competitors and we have no reason to disbelieve them.
But while attending the Hampton Downs round of the Suzuki Tri Series, we were advised that Mr Lawrance and Mr Scrivener were organising a trip to Australia for sidecars to compete at the “Barry Sheene Memorial”

As we understand it, this was driven by Mr Scrivener and Mr Lawrance.

I am at a loss as to why this is my fault.

Can you see the pattern that is happening here Jim?? I can see it plain as day. You were told by the 'Haves' (as you put them) an absolute crock of shit!! But you chose to listen to them absolutely. You were proven totally wrong on each case, yet you still accepted their 'Truth' as gospel! Why is that??
You know deep down that you were served it up on a platter. But you singlehandedly chose to treat the 'Have-nots' with contempt and try to bully us into racing.

Now, as for your 'informer' or 'advisor', I have a written copy from him of his threatening remarks made about Chris Lawrance, stating that 'Chris won't race again for a while mate!!'
This happened prior to Paeroa - of which we all know what actions you took in vain to stop Chris from racing. That makes you look like nothing more than a puppet Jim.

You say how was it your fault? You chose personalities over commonsense.
Oh, and you also had the power to do so. That was a despicable act from someone with power. Again, the Board should have asked more questions of your actions. But alas, they didn't. Shame on them for not making you tow the line, with your apparant 1 vote and all.




ATTN CHRIS LAWRANCE


Please elaberate a LOT on your buisness experience

Your Profile on www.mnz.co.nz only shows that you are a racer who has travelled the world a bit ( Good on ya for that) And goals for the future based on what Scrivy has been saying on here for a long time, funny how he wrote your profile by the look of it?
That's fact Shaun, yes I did write it. As you'll see, it has my name on the bottom of the page. That was a requirement, that is why I also asked who nominated JT, which he said was blatantly not my busines.....

I for one have emailed JT and asked/suggested that he 100% Stays of this site with all the rubbish being thrown around, " He said she said" Bollocks.
Chris doesn't need to be told to stay off this site by anyone. He hasn't ever attacked anyone, either verbally or otherwise. Chris isn't a bully, so doesnt stoop to those levels Shaun.

I Know I have typed some SAD shite on here over the last few years, but I DID have a very BAD Head injury, ( AND SHORT MAN COMPLEXES) and have lost one sponsor and one old friend after 25 years of being involved in racing here in NZ due to my RANTING about shite?????
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/96822-Scrivy-For-quot-Road-Race-Commissioner-quot
Remember this thread Shaun? You had no problems with me or Bob back then, but overnight you changed. Why is that Shaun?? You too were feed a pile of shit, and you too were suckered in. You love to bag us on here, and have even sent us snide remark texts. But you bag us if we have our say? Strange.

CHRIS, if you are serious about this roll ask your Friend and Promoter to STOP bringing all the garbage to this Public Forum and take care of it all in a PROFESSIONAL BUISNESS like manner, Scrivy is a buisness man and know,s how to act accordingly, and this is NOT the way guy,s.
Promoter?? WTF?? Shaun, this isn't a political party campaign. I simply nominated Chris, I don't speak for him!
All along I have been answering questions that people have asked. I have never liked infactual statements, so I bother to tell the truth. I have broad shoulders, I don't care what people think of me in doing so. The old saying 'Truth hurts sometimes'.

PLEASE THINK OF THE FUTURE OF OUR SPORT AND THE YOUTH READING THIS

It's on an internet site Shaun. If you don't like these posts, you really should go back and read your posts Shaun. The language etc is really off putting for a start!
And you have a higher standing in the racing world than I do, so maybe you should be setting a higher standard?

Scrivy.