Dobbed in weed-growing parents

[Edbear]

with all due respect ED, you have not made a valid point for a long time.

You are here to troll, you add nothing of substance.

go away, please.

LOL! But the thread dies when I go away... :rolleyes:

I made a valid point in light of the bleatings of the pro-cannabis camp that it is safe and harmless, that it reduces violent tendencies, that "most users will use responsibly," etc. It's all bollocks!

Bottom line is that all they want to do is get stoned without consequences. Decriminalising it won't change that and based on experience with other substances and even going through the Portugal links, won't stop crime and won't cost less. Decriminilising comes with a very steep monetary cost that will probably be even higher than it is now, and Portugal recognises that too..

You may feel that having a quiet puff at home is no big deal, but the truth is that this is not the reality for most and gang violence and crime will not go away if it was deciminalised. There will still be a black market, even bigger, maybe, as how many will abide by the law? How many will avail themselves of the detox programmes? No-one here for sure!

[bogan]

I made a valid point in light of the bleatings of the pro-cannabis camp that it is safe and harmless, that it reduces violent tendencies, that "most users will use responsibly," etc. It's all bollocks!

Are you fucking retarded? How does one statistically insignificant incident show the reduction in violent tendencies to be bollocks? I mean you've said some stupid shit to troll people before, but at some point you must realise the dribble you spout just makes you look quite retarded and only results in a piss weak and very much transparent troll attempt.

[Edbear]

Are you fucking retarded? How does one statistically insignificant incident show the reduction in violent tendencies to be bollocks? I mean you've said some stupid shit to troll people before, but at some point you must realise the dribble you spout just makes you look quite retarded and only results in a piss weak and very much transparent troll attempt.

Feel free to come up with some valid research that it does reduce violent tendencies.

People are people and will do what they do regardless. To blame drugs or drink or anything else for one's behaviour is no excuse, neither is claiming it will reduce the likelihood of said actions.

It may have an influence to a small degree, but does not change a persons personality.

Goodness sakes, I gave one example! Do I have to give several pages of examples each time? No-one else here sees the need to back themselves with any evidence or examples except for their own biased opinion, interspersed with vitriol. Give it a break!

[bogan]

No-one else here sees the need to back themselves with any evidence or examples except for their own biased opinion, interspersed with vitriol. Give it a break!

We're still waiting on you to back yourself... If you did so as often as you said you did, your intelligence or motivation wouldn't be called into question nearly so often. FFS man, a Seven Sharp article, really? is this how far things have fallen :rolleyes:

[Edbear]

We're still waiting on you to back yourself... If you did so as often as you said you did, your intelligence or motivation wouldn't be called into question nearly so often. FFS man, a Seven Sharp article, really? is this how far things have fallen :rolleyes:

I believe Katman posted a link about it that was used by Seven Sharp... Didn't notice anyone complaining or commenting on it.

[Katman]

I believe Katman posted a link about it that was used by Seven Sharp... Didn't notice anyone complaining or commenting on it.

I posted a link to an American news report. It certainly wasn't a report that was used by Seven Sharp.

Your research leaves a lot to be desired Ed.

[Edbear]

I posted a link to an American news report. It certainly wasn't a report that was used by Seven Sharp.

Your research leaves a lot to be desired Ed.

I'm having a busy day and my mind is all over the place. You're right, it wasn't this particular report but showed the same incident. Seven Sharp interviewed several people there before the shooting broke out.

[Edbear]

PS. Bogan is shooting the messenger again.

[Katman]

I'm having a busy day and my mind is all over the place. You're right, it wasn't this particular report but showed the same incident. Seven Sharp interviewed several people there before the shooting broke out.

I don't think we can trust anything you say Ed.

You just make things up for the fun of it.

[blue rider]

I don't think we can trust anything you say Ed.

You just make things up for the fun of it.

http://adayinourshoes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/trolls.gif

this anouncement will be followed up by a bunch of nekkid girlz playing hide n seek

[bogan]

PS. Bogan is shooting the messenger again.

Well, when the messenger hands you a crude finger painting done with his own shit and refers to as a Shakespearean masterpiece, it does make for an itchy trigger finger.


this anouncement will be followed up by a bunch of nekkid girlz playing hide n seek

Now that sounds like a fun challenge!

[Edbear]

http://adayinourshoes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/trolls.gif

this anouncement will be followed up by a bunch of nekkid girlz playing hide n seek

That would eliminate most of the members on KB... :laugh:

[Edbear]

Well, when the messenger hands you a crude finger painting done with his own shit and refers to as a Shakespearean masterpiece, it does make for an itchy trigger finger.

I simply pointed to a TV program showing stoners acting as they do. Katman's link was to the same event showing much the same from a different camera angle.

One link is accepted without comment, the other ridiculed by you.

[blue rider]

http://shame-full.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Girl-on-girl-action.jpg

[bogan]

I simply pointed to a TV program showing stoners acting as they do. Katman's link was to the same event showing much the same from a different camera angle.

One link is accepted without comment, the other ridiculed by you.

Katman gave no message with his, so deserved no ridicule. Tbh I looked at that and thought, nah, this can't be the story Ed is talking about cos that doesn't support his claims at all :facepalm: overestimated you again it seems...


http://shame-full.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Girl-on-girl-action.jpg

Hey, I found them, they are not good at hiding at all. Better things to do I guess...

[ducatilover]

Well, when the messenger hands you a crude finger painting done with his own shit and refers to as a Shakespearean masterpiece, it does make for an itchy trigger finger.


:nono: You're not meant to put the finger in the poo, that's why it itches.

[Edbear]

Katman gave no message with his, so deserved no ridicule. Tbh I looked at that and thought, nah, this can't be the story Ed is talking about cos that doesn't support his claims at all :facepalm: overestimated you again it seems...

Hey, I found them, they are not good at hiding at all. Better things to do I guess...

Don't tell me, let me guess, you haven't seen the program have you?

[blue rider]

http://gorillaartfare.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/dirty-sunday-02-fedezz.jpg


http://gorillaartfare.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/krampus-web-fzz.jpg

[Banditbandit]

LOL! But the thread dies when I go away... :rolleyes:

So go .. please go .. 85 pages and it's still climbing .. just do us all a favour - end the thread by going !!!


How many will avail themselves of the detox programmes? No-one here for sure!

Bullshit !!! I've been there done that - and I here ...

[Edbear]

So go .. please go .. 85 pages and it's still climbing .. just do us all a favour - end the thread by going !!!

Bullshit !!! I've been there done that - and I here ...

I was referring to my earstwhile opponents here who are vehemently pro cannabis and use facetious excuses to support their views. I have repeated ad nauseum that their sole interest is to smoke dope freely without consequence. All their arguments are rubbish accordingly.

However, you are probably right and this thread should be finished.

[bogan]

:nono: You're not meant to put the finger in the poo, that's why it itches.

But, what if it is my job?

http://www.flashasylum.com/db/files/Comics/Dave/comicfingering1.png


Don't tell me, let me guess, you haven't seen the program have you?

I hardly see that as relevant.


I was referring to my earstwhile opponents here who are vehemently pro cannabis and use facetious excuses to support their views. I have repeated ad nauseum that their sole interest is to smoke dope freely without consequence. All their arguments are rubbish accordingly.

However, you are probably right and this thread should be finished.

The motivation for their arguments is also irrelevant, its the substance that matters, but I guess that goes against your ways of attacking the person instead of posting things of substance :yawn:


http://gorillaartfare.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/dirty-sunday-02-fedezz.jpg

Found those ones too, they were hiding in a painting!

[Katman]

I simply pointed to a TV program showing stoners acting as they do. Katman's link was to the same event showing much the same from a different camera angle.


What a load of bullshit.

Your reference was to a TV programme showing a bunch of people smoking cannabis.

My link was to a news report about the shooting that occurred at that event.

The two article didn't show "much the same" at all.

Are you on drugs?

[Katman]

I have repeated ad nauseum that their sole interest is to smoke dope freely without consequence.

And what exactly is the problem with that?

I'd go a bit further and suggest that many people simply wish to smoke dope without being labelled a criminal for doing so.

[Edbear]

What a load of bullshit.

Your reference was to a TV programme showing a bunch of people smoking cannabis.

My link was to a news report about the shooting that occurred at that event.

The two article didn't show "much the same" at all.

Are you on drugs?

Sigh... Your link was of the same event the difference being it started after the Seven Sharp video link which had been interviewing people about the legalisation of cannabis but went on to cover the shooting. Same event, same people, same day.


And what exactly is the problem with that?

I'd go a bit further and suggest that many people simply wish to smoke dope without being labelled a criminal for doing so.

Selective quoting again, ignoring the point of the post, but that is normal for you and some others here.

[Banditbandit]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1195/1130536088_9a2f79e3ea.jpg

[mashman]

All their arguments are rubbish accordingly.

Mine aren't.

[Edbear]

I hardly see that as relevant!

Typical...

[Katman]

Selective quoting again, ignoring the point of the post, but that is normal for you and some others here.

What selective quoting?

The quote I posted was the point of your post.

[Edbear]

I was referring to my earstwhile opponents here who are vehemently pro cannabis and use facetious excuses to support their views. I have repeated ad nauseum that their sole interest is to smoke dope freely without consequence. All their arguments are rubbish accordingly.

However, you are probably right and this thread should be finished.


What selective quoting?

The quote I posted was the point of your post.

No, the first sentence was the point. Do try harder please.


Mine aren't.

Unless you come under the point of the first two sentences. If your interest is in whether decriminalisation from the legal and societal implications would be better or worse, then you are right.

[bogan]

Typical...

Yes, if you Google Seven Sharp reviews I'm sure you'll find that is a typical opinion of that show!


Mine aren't.

Yes but it is much easier to discount the substance of them by just saying they are rubbish; surely by now you don't expect this troll to actually back his own claims?

It is now time for really silly hats
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FsvlE8MLoaM/TftXKf7s-QI/AAAAAAAAAXA/MnWDjvrUKC8/s1600/SILLY%2BHAT8.jpg
Look at that shit, there's like a little bathroom in there, in addition to it being ridiculously oversized and unwieldy.

[scissorhands]

Ed, your inability to show compassion or understanding for those outliers who suffer societal rejection and become addicts, makes you look like an unkind and harmful fool.

It is a medical issue, and should never be a legal one.

A bit like you really, except you're[correct?] in denial of your particular brand of religious insanity.

I freely admit I have been negatively affected due to mental health issues stemming from a dysfunctional family, and I sought solace, as the Government agencies and medical support I contacted, is poisoned by bad science and little correct understanding of autism

Again, much like you. You are a mirror image of the ignorance I see in medical science.

Medical science is changing its opinion re cannabis. Once it is passed, you will too Ed. You are fighting a losing war.

AWAKE!!:bleh:

[blue rider]

hats..pfffffft

http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Dita-dita-von-teese-467137_384_500.jpg

[Katman]

LOL! But the thread dies when I go away...


So go .. please go .. 85 pages and it's still climbing .. just do us all a favour - end the thread by going !!!



I was referring to my earstwhile opponents here who are vehemently pro cannabis and use facetious excuses to support their views. I have repeated ad nauseum that their sole interest is to smoke dope freely without consequence. All their arguments are rubbish accordingly.



No, the first sentence was the point. Do try harder please.


No Ed, that first sentence has no 'point'.

The second and third sentences are the 'point' of your post.

Those prescription drugs you're addicted to have fucked your brain to the point that your own posts have to be explained to you.

:facepalm:

[bogan]

hats..pfffffft

http://images.fanpop.com/images/image_uploads/Dita-dita-von-teese-467137_384_500.jpg

You make a compelling argument there, I may have to change my whole stance on the issue.

http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/104/76ed261f7c97492eaa2c4da8b8aeeb8d/l.jpg

[Banditbandit]

let me respond with ...

http://data.whicdn.com/images/38251731/405241_418321114881527_56414853_n_large.jpg

[Maha]

LOL! But the thread dies when I go away... :rolleyes:


Have to agree there Ed, a couple of days ago, this thread struggled to list 1 page without your input. Fact.

EDIT: 16 posts on April 17th (Ed free day)...one page a one post. Then all quiet for four days. You posted today being the 23rd and there’s been 43 posts since.
Your stamina and phishing is to be applauded.

[bogan]

let me respond with ...

Those aren't real!

This one looks stuck

http://25.media.tumblr.com/ebe0828f180be6cbb6d7f0c587301a40/tumblr_mg9zqucWcg1r3f3m6o1_500.jpg

[Banditbandit]

Those aren't real!

This one looks stuck



No .. probably not ... and yes ...

So let me strengthen my argument with ...



http://pic.footballwallpapers.biz/medium/55/tattoo%20models.jpg

[imdying]

What selective quoting?

The quote I posted was the point of your post.Yes, but that little faggots posts are pointless in any case...

[bogan]

So let me strengthen my argument with ...


I think we are starting to come to an agreement...

http://thegreatone22.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/hottie-03-02-12.jpg

but on somewhat less related topic

http://fashionablygeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Archer-Tattoo.jpg?cb5e28

[Edbear]

Ed, your inability to show compassion or understanding for those outliers who suffer societal rejection and become addicts, makes you look like an unkind and harmful fool.

It is a medical issue, and should never be a legal one.

A bit like you really, except you're[correct?] in denial of your particular brand of religious insanity.

I freely admit I have been negatively affected due to mental health issues stemming from a dysfunctional family, and I sought solace, as the Government agencies and medical support I contacted, is poisoned by bad science and little correct understanding of autism

Again, much like you. You are a mirror image of the ignorance I see in medical science.

Medical science is changing its opinion re cannabis. Once it is passed, you will too Ed. You are fighting a losing war.

AWAKE!!:bleh:

Let me put this really simply.

Anyone with addiction issues or mental issues due to whatever reason, and wants to do something about them should be given as much help and support as possible. I have said I was addicted to prescription painkillers, namely DHC, and it ruined my life.

It had an iron grip on my body and it was a living nightmare to get free of it. I know first-hand, better than my opponents and haters on here, just what it does and how hard it is to get free. For five months, I cried every day in agony and fear of the withdrawal symptoms. My body was tying itself in knots, I couldn't sleep', I had raging diarrhoea, my butt was on fire, I was injecting myself every three days on average for massive Migraine's which felt like an axe was buried in my head. I was bedridden for most of the day and night and in a wheelchair. I was suffering clinical depression.

I reached a point where I just wanted to die, but kept going for my family's sake, who were scared of what I was going through and thought they would lose me.

Don't tell me I lack compassion for genuine sufferers.

My lack of compassion is for those who use stupid arguments that have no bearing on their actual motives, to support their selfishness. And for those who feel they are fully qualified to comment without any inclination to learn anything about the subject, and who impugn bad motive to me and assume they know what I "really mean".

[scissorhands]

I had raging diarrhoea, my butt was on fire

I've been looking for a new signature

[Edbear]

Have to agree there Ed, a couple of days ago, this thread struggled to list 1 page without your input. Fact.

EDIT: 16 posts on April 17th (Ed free day)...one page a one post. Then all quiet for four days. You posted today being the 23rd and there’s been 43 posts since.

These guys would really miss me. Who else can they take out their frustrated egos on... :headbang:

[Edbear]

I've been looking for a new signature

I bet you disappointed the others by getting in first... :weird:

[Maha]

These guys would really miss me. Who else can they take out their frustrated egos on... :headbang:

Like giving candy to a ..........well anything really. :laugh:

[imdying]

For five months, I cried every day in agony and fear of the withdrawal symptoms. My body was tying itself in knots, I couldn't sleep', I had raging diarrhoea, my butt was on fire, I was injecting myself every three days on average for massive Migraine's which felt like an axe was buried in my head. I was bedridden for most of the day and night and in a wheelchair. I was suffering clinical depression.That made my day. Shame he didn't just kill himself.... ah well, opportunity on hold.

[scissorhands]

My lack of compassion is for those who use stupid arguments that have no bearing on their actual motives, to support their selfishness. And for those who feel they are fully qualified to comment without any inclination to learn anything about the subject, and who impugn bad motive to me and assume they know what I "really mean".

potkettleblack

AWAKE!

[Edbear]

Seems to demonstrate their inability to carry on a reasonable discussion on their own. They need a target for their angst and insecurities. :msn-wink:

[Katman]

*a little cry for sympathy*

So now you're comparing people's wish to use cannabis without being considered criminals to your drug addiction?

That is one seriously fucked up argument.

[Edbear]

That made my day. Shame he didn't just kill himself.... ah well, opportunity on hold.

Some have such a pathetic life of their own they are obsessed with me and follow me everywhere, handing out red every opportunity they can. Poor wee darlings, you have to feel sorry for them.


potkettleblack

AWAKE!

Nup!

[scissorhands]

My main stoner friends

2x computer programmers
2x doctors sons
1x scholarship student

Ed, you're an accident prone religious zealot ex plumber.....

you would not have had all those nasty side effects if you had been prescribed cannabis

[Edbear]

So now you're comparing people's wish to use cannabis without being considered criminals to your drug addiction?

That is one seriously fucked argument.

You truly are a sad sack aren't you?

Back to ignore... :sleep:

[FJRider]

Seems to demonstrate their inability to carry on a reasonable discussion on their own. They need a target for their angst and insecurities. :msn-wink:

A target ... like maybe ... a kid that dobbed in parents for growing dope ... ??? <_<

[Banditbandit]

but on somewhat less related topic



Let's digress a little ...

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcShs56X5ggiOCwMcI154UUVACB57usyR OoAnIVGyxDMiC_sWC9hwMsDpyk6

[Edbear]

A target ... like maybe ... a kid that dobbed in parents for growing dope ... ??? <_<

Yeah, the less information the better for their assumptive, knee jerk personalities. Mind you even given as much information as possible, once they have decided on a course of vitriolic prejudice they are incapable of changing their minds or reaching any kind of level of reason. Thereafter they just get more personal and abusive.

Weird how they then think anyone can take them seriously. :weird:

[scissorhands]

I'll give you an A for effort
But a D for logic and reasoning

[Edbear]

I'll give you an A for effort

Some would give me an A for something else... <_<

[Katman]

Yeah, the less information the better for their assumptive, knee jerk personalities. Mind you even given as much information as possible, once they have decided on a course of vitriolic prejudice they are incapable of changing their minds or reaching any kind of level of reason. Thereafter they just get more personal and abusive.

Weird how they then think anyone can take them seriously. :weird:

Once again, that's you to a T Ed.

[bogan]

Let's digress a little ...

Ewww, lets not :bleh:

http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/75/4d872db06075456599c2b2d85262e4a8/l.jpg


Some have such a pathetic life of their own they are obsessed with me and follow me everywhere, handing out red every opportunity they can. Poor wee darlings, you have to feel sorry for them.

Always a cry for attention with you isn't it, pity you feel the need to get you kicks in such a negative way; but I guess that is where the term troll came from.

[Edbear]

:nono:


Always a cry for attention with you isn't it, pity you feel the need to get you kicks in such a negative way; but I guess that is where the term troll came from.

LoL! Backwards much? :laugh:

You guys could simply ignore me, of course. Tell the truth..:

[Maha]

Always a cry for attention with you isn't it, pity you feel the need to get you kicks in such a negative way; but I guess that is where the term troll came from.

He is correct in what he said though, it is very evident that, there are a select handfull on here that appear to be sitting/waiting for Ed next post.
As it was pointed out earlier, how quiet this thread is without Eds input. If it wasn't for Eds posts and the subsequent posts of his followers, this thread would have burnt out long ago, like a used joint.

[Edbear]

Some have such a pathetic life of their own they are obsessed with me and follow me everywhere, handing out red every opportunity they can. Poor wee darlings, you have to feel sorry for them.
Nup!


Fabulous! The usual couple of idiots just have to keep proving me right. Maybe they need some effective medication? :laugh:

[bogan]

:nono:

LoL! Backwards much? :laugh:

You guys could simply ignore me, of course. Tell the truth..:

You keep telling yourselve whatever helps, however, I think the popular opinion is more accurate. I've already told you the truth, you're not on my ignore so I can make sure you don't spread disinformation to market your products. I'm in this thread cos it's like a train wreck you just can't take your eyes off, but with more boobies.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lb01v5LE1h1qzyso7o1_1280.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId =AKIAI6WLSGT7Y3ET7ADQ&Expires=1366778918&Signature=YSba2ZiRBHWS5LAPT1HaJIw69RM%3D#_=_

Looks like we are going for the 100 page mark, how will it get there? Tattoed beauties, Ed's train wreck of a logical discussion, silly hats, or even and actual discussion, maybe even dubstep cos that shit is ridiculous too. who knows, stay tuned to find out...

[bogan]

He is correct in what he said though, it is very evident that, there are a select handfull on here that appear to be sitting/waiting for Ed next post.
As it was pointed out earlier, how quiet this thread is without Eds input. If it wasn't for Eds posts and the subsequent posts of his followers, this thread would have burnt out long ago, like a used joint.

An answered cry for attention is still a cry for attention though, the fact he knows its not going to be favorable attention just makes it more weird.

funnily enough, it doesn't look like the mods are paying attention anymore :whistle:

[Katman]

He is correct in what he said though, it is very evident that, there are a select handfull on here that appear to be sitting/waiting for Ed next post.


Hey, if Ed's happy to set himself up as a target to be shot down, I'm only too happy to oblige.

[Edbear]

You keep telling yourselve whatever helps, however, I think the popular opinion is more accurate. I've already told you the truth, you're not on my ignore so I can make sure you don't spread disinformation to market your products. I'm in this thread cos it's like a train wreck you just can't take your eyes off, but with more boobies.

Looks like we are going for the 100 page mark, how will it get there? Tattoed beauties, Ed's train wreck of a logical discussion, silly hats, or even and actual discussion, maybe even dubstep cos that shit is ridiculous too. who knows, stay tuned to find out...

Sadly it seems some here only have pictures to satisfy their frustrations... :no:

[Maha]

An answered cry for attention is still a cry for attention though, the fact he knows its not going to be favorable attention just makes it more weird.

funnily enough, it doesn't look like the mods are paying attention anymore :whistle:

They are probaly having a laugh like the rest of the non posters...posting pictures in an effort to anger/upset or what ever the hell you are trying to do, speaks volumes that you have run out of ideas and your argument is at an end John.

[Edbear]

An answered cry for attention is still a cry for attention though, the fact he knows its not going to be favorable attention just makes it more weird.

funnily enough, it doesn't look like the mods are paying attention anymore :whistle:

You have much to learn and far to go, young man. May you survive long enough to get there...

[Edbear]

They are probaly having a laugh like the rest of the non posters...posting pictures in an effort to anger/upset or what ever the hell you are trying to do, speaks volumes that you have run out of ideas and your argument is at an end John.

I can imagine some are at once splitting their sides and at same time agonising at the depths ignorant people can sink to.

[bogan]

They are probaly having a laugh like the rest of the non posters...posting pictures in an effort to anger/upset or what ever the hell you are trying to do, speaks volumes that you have run out of ideas and your argument is at an end John.

Actually the pictures stemmed from silly hats are meant draw parallels to the sillyness of Ed's arguments, I tried to engage him in rational discussion (I'm actually on the fence on this somewhat interesting issue) but he refused to back up his statements and instead resorted to pointless redirection or insults. As I said in my previous post, there is still the option for an actual discussion.

[bogan]

You have much to learn and far to go, young man.

So learn how to make a compelling argument and teach me.

[Edbear]

So learn how to make a compelling argument and teach me.


Actually the pictures stemmed from silly hats are meant draw parallels to the sillyness of Ed's arguments, I tried to engage him in rational discussion (I'm actually on the fence on this somewhat interesting issue) but he refused to back up his statements and instead resorted to pointless redirection or insults. As I said in my previous post, there is still the option for an actual discussion.

Maybe my actual point was lost in among my sparring with the idiots? Give me a minute or two and I'll recap wihtout the sparring.

Just got news my youngest is having a baby girl! She went for her 20 wk scan this afternoon! :wings:

Ten seconds later I got a huge order from a merchant! I have bought back a company I sold after my car accident. It wasn't doing as well as I thought it should, so I bought it back and first day was this big order, from the first company I approached.

So sorry if I'm not too down despite the best efforts of some on here... :rolleyes:

[mashman]

You may feel that having a quiet puff at home is no big deal, but the truth is that this is not the reality for most and gang violence and crime will not go away if it was deciminalised. There will still be a black market, even bigger, maybe, as how many will abide by the law? How many will avail themselves of the detox programmes? No-one here for sure!

???? How can the black market be even bigger given that those who smoke already smoke? And if you're that concerned about the black market and crime, legalise it.

[Edbear]

???? How can the black market be even bigger given that those who smoke already smoke? And if you're that concerned about the black market and crime, legalise it.

Ask the gangs what they will do.

[mashman]

Ask the gangs what they will do.

Under which context? Decriminalisation or Legalisation?

[FJRider]

???? How can the black market be even bigger given that those who smoke already smoke? And if you're that concerned about the black market and crime, legalise it.

There will be plenty of people that will smoke it ... but can't be bothered growing it. As such ... with the likely increases in penalty's for dealing ... prices probably wont drop much.

[mashman]

There will be plenty of people that will smoke it ... but can't be bothered growing it. As such ... with the likely increases in penalty's for dealing ... prices probably wont drop much.

Why aren't they already? I think you'll find more people will grow their own and will start giving the extra away... but that may well put the price up.

[Edbear]

Under which context? Decriminalisation or Legalisation?

Decriminalisation. Not much difference as far as they are concerned though. They won't give up their control easily and don't care a whit for any laws.


There will be plenty of people that will smoke it ... but can't be bothered growing it. As such ... with the likely increases in penalty's for dealing ... prices probably wont drop much.

Perzackery. Decriminalisation is for those who have a wee bit on hand for personal use, the other laws don't change. So add a major increase in costing for the extra Policing, the rehab/education programs, etc. and you can see why the Portugese experiment is still controversial.

[bogan]

What is the gang's market share on weed? I can't think of anybody I've known that buys weed from gangs.

A lot of the growers are everyday people, no criminal element except for growing, so if more of them pop up it might reduce the price and participation by the more criminal elements.

[Woodman]

Binge drinking is disgusting .



By disgusting, you mean hilarious fun right?

[FJRider]

Why aren't they already? I think you'll find more people will grow their own and will start giving the extra away... but that may well put the price up.

Probably because ... at the moment it's illegal. All the "Responsible people" that smoke ... don't want to risk a Court conviction. Or Police attention drawn to them.

[Edbear]

By disgusting, you mean hilarious fun right?

If that is what it takes for people to have "hilarious fun", it is a sad reflection on family and society. IMHO, of course... :msn-wink:

[mashman]

Decriminalisation. Not much difference as far as they are concerned though. They won't give up their control easily and don't care a whit for any laws.

Aye, sounds about right. Which is just one of the reasons that we should legalise the stuff. :rofl:@more police resources, more treatment "facilities" etc... you'll save a fortune by keeping them out of the courts to start with, may even end up with some drinkers changing their poison and potentially less hospitalisations (although that is one hell of a stretch to imagine), and as it's legal there may well be some tax $ in it along with the gangs being the suppliers for the legal trade. Who knows, they may even go legit :shit:


Probably because ... at the moment it's illegal. All the "Responsible people" that smoke ... don't want to risk a Court conviction. Or Police attention drawn to them.

That's the point of the debate though, the risking of the conviction. Without anyone coming into one's house and without being silly enough to smoke out in the open, the "Responsible people" are already smoking in the safety of their own homes irrespective of the risk. It has been that way since it became illegal. I'd also be curious to know how they'd be able to calculate whether the number of "users" had gone up or down... primarily as it's all currently best guess as to the number of "users".

[Katman]

Anybody watch Seven Sharp last night re: the legalisation of a Cannabis? A great advert for it, NOT! :weird:

Well Ed, if homosexuals and lesbians are now legally allowed to marry, I wouldn't go betting the farm against the cannabis issue.

By the way, did you have a read of the link in post #1226?

[FJRider]

I'd also be curious to know how they'd be able to calculate whether the number of "users" had gone up or down... primarily as it's all currently best guess as to the number of "users".

So how can you be sure then ... you have the numbers to ensure it is (will be) a popular vote then.

Are there enough people in the right places to get the Bill through Parliament ... ??

At the moment ... the answer to both is ... you don't know.

[Edbear]

Aye, sounds about right. Which is just one of the reasons that we should legalise the stuff. :rofl:@more police resources, more treatment "facilities" etc... you'll save a fortune by keeping them out of the courts to start with, may even end up with some drinkers changing their poison and potentially less hospitalisations (although that is one hell of a stretch to imagine), and as it's legal there may well be some tax $ in it along with the gangs being the suppliers for the legal trade. Who knows, they may even go legit :shit:



That's the point of the debate though, the risking of the conviction. Without anyone coming into one's house and without being silly enough to smoke out in the open, the "Responsible people" are already smoking in the safety of their own homes irrespective of the risk. It has been that way since it became illegal. I'd also be curious to know how they'd be able to calculate whether the number of "users" had gone up or down... primarily as it's all currently best guess as to the number of "users".

I was referring to the link on the Portugese situation. Maybe you should read it through? http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/evaluating-drug-decriminalization-in-portugal-12-years-later-a-891060.html



Well Ed, if homosexuals and lesbians are now legally allowed to marry, I wouldn't go betting the farm against the cannabis issue.

By the way, did you have a read of the link in post #1226?

Try to keep up, I know it is difficult for you. I have never argued against the researching of the possible medical benefits of Cannabis, or argued that there are none.

[Katman]

Try to keep up, I know it is difficult for you. I have never argued against the researching of the possible medical benefits of Cannabis, or argued that there are none.

So if it's becoming increasingly possible that cannabis could be used in the treatment of cancer, what if it was found that cannabis use could actually help prevent cancer?

[mashman]

So how can you be sure then ... you have the numbers to ensure it is (will be) a popular vote then.

Are there enough people in the right places to get the Bill through Parliament ... ??

At the moment ... the answer to both is ... you don't know.

I'm not sure at all. It may well be that the population is against the idea and the status quo remains for another 100 years... but we'll never know if we don't try. Given what's happened in Portugal, is it likely that society as we know it is just going to collapse? I can't see it... and worst case scenario is that it has to be made illegal again.

Aye, probably no to both and yes I don't know.

[mashman]

I was referring to the link on the Portugese situation. Maybe you should read it through? http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/evaluating-drug-decriminalization-in-portugal-12-years-later-a-891060.html

I read it through last time around, yes, both pages. I like the approach they've taken and it looks to have turned out as a zero sum game over those 12 years.

[FJRider]

So if it's becoming increasingly possible that cannabis could be used in the treatment of cancer, what if it was found that cannabis use could actually help prevent cancer?

Some may be hard to persuade that ... the smoking of cannabis will help prevent cancer.

Due to the lack of documented facts of it's resulting use (other than through smoking it) ... it would be a difficult argument to pursue.

[Edbear]

So if it's becoming increasingly possible that cannabis could be used in the treatment of cancer, what if it was found that cannabis use could actually help prevent cancer?

As I've said, again repeatedly, :bleh:, if science comes up with a product/drug from Cannabis that was equally effective against others for any illness and had less side effects, I would be all for it.

I would want clinical trials though as proper evidence not the anecdotal everyone wants to go by.

The drug scientists are always very busy looking for the Holy Grail of cancer cures as the first to come up with one would be instantly a Billionnaire. Of course some here are died-in -the -wool conspiracy theorists. :weird: and will never accept that there is a genuine drive world-wide to find more effective treatments.

[bogan]

So learn how to make a compelling argument and teach me.


Maybe my actual point was lost in among my sparring with the idiots? Give me a minute or two and I'll recap wihtout the sparring.

It's getting lost again Ed. How is that recap coming?

[Katman]

The drug scientists are always very busy looking for the Holy Grail of cancer cures as the first to come up with one would be instantly a Billionnaire. Of course some here are died-in -the -wool conspiracy theorists. :weird: and will never accept that there is a genuine drive world-wide to find more effective treatments.

I have long believed that the answer to all our health issues already exist on earth in a natural form - it's up to us to find them.

Far too much reliance is placed on man-made drugs.

Perhaps it's the likes of you Ed that are keeping the drug companies in a roaring trade, and in doing so, holding the well-being of mankind back.

[blue rider]

oh look a girl and a motorbike...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-lY1zM7_18MA/Tu_m70VX-oI/AAAAAAAAAbE/PRe6X13zJLE/s1600/GIRLS%2BON%2BBIKES%2B%25281%2529.jpg

[Katman]

Some may be hard to persuade that ... the smoking of cannabis will help prevent cancer.

Due to the lack of documented facts of it's resulting use (other than through smoking it) ... it would be a difficult argument to pursue.

Yeah, it's far easier just to say "it won't work so we won't try it".

That sounds like it comes straight from the Edbear School of Reasoning.

[PrincessBandit]

Yes, if you Google Seven Sharp reviews I'm sure you'll find that is a typical opinion of that show!



Yes but it is much easier to discount the substance of them by just saying they are rubbish; surely by now you don't expect this troll to actually back his own claims?

It is now time for really silly hats

Look at that shit, there's like a little bathroom in there, in addition to it being ridiculously oversized and unwieldy.

Including a toilet for all the shit!

[Edbear]

It's getting lost again Ed. How is that recap coming?

In short, the question is whether decriminalising Cannabis is the best way to go and whether those who only smoke a joint privately in their own home should be subject to law as it stands.

I personally don't think it will help or lower costs as also is claimed by the pro camp. I do not consider that Cannabis is harmless as much as those using would like to vehemently claim it is. There are too many actual clinical trials to the contrary, (which are summarily dismissed by the stoners).


I have long believed that the answer to all our health issues already exist on earth in a natural form - it's up to us to find them.

Far too much reliance is placed on man-made drugs.

Perhaps it's the likes of you Ed that are keeping the drug companies in a roaring trade, and in doing so, holding the well-being of mankind back.

Most "man made drugs" are from the natural flora of the Earth. Simply finding and extracting the active ingredient and making sure it is in the right dose and effective with minimal side effects. The synthesising of drugs is an effort to keep up with demand and lower the considerable cost of the most needed or required drugs, so that as many as possible can benefit. Who, apart from the "drug companies", has the money to find and develop drugs?

Say what you like about Pharmac, without this department the cost of drugs here would be prohibitive as it is a Government department to try to reign in the drug companies desire to maximise their profits from the drugs they supply.

It is always a balance of cost-benefit as there is smiply not enough money to provide everyone with all the drugs they need.


oh look a girl and a motorbike...
]

Nice photo...

[Katman]

I do not consider that Cannabis is harmless as much as those using would like to vehemently claim it is. There are too many actual clinical trials to the contrary, (which are summarily dismissed by the stoners).


Fuck knows who Angry Harry is but he seems to think alcohol and tobacco are both more dangerous.

http://angryharry.com/reDrugsRanking.htm

[scissorhands]

They should ban people like Edbear, his opinions are far more harmful to society than weed has or ever will be

AND the only reason I 'follow' [not] the fool is to keep kicking his stupid unfactual ass, ass it burns in the wind

[mashman]

It is always a balance of cost-benefit as there is smiply not enough money to provide everyone with all the drugs they need.

Pretty stupid given that money is an infinite resource :msn-wink:, oh and that there are enough drugs if there's enough money.

[Katman]

http://www.catholic.org/health/story.php?id=48525

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/11/28/prescription-drug-death.aspx

[FJRider]

Yeah, it's far easier just to say "it won't work so we won't try it".

That sounds like it comes straight from the Edbear School of Reasoning.

I never said it wont work. But would require proof not as yet gained from testing so far.

Do you have any evidence to support the proposition that those smoking cannabis on a regular basis ... are less likely to be diagnosed with a cancer .. ??

Or ... those that have been diagnosed as such ... were seen to be cured, or at the very least ... had their general condition improved ... ???

And I have little respect for those that push the theory that "Natural" equates to "better" in all/most situations.

[scissorhands]

Ten seconds later I got a huge order from a merchant! I have bought back a company I sold after my car accident. It wasn't doing as well as I thought it should, so I bought it back and first day was this big order, from the first company I approached.



Confirmation

[Katman]

I never said it wont work. But would require proof not as yet gained from testing so far.

Do you have any evidence to support the proposition that those smoking cannabis on a regular basis ... are less likely to be diagnosed with a cancer .. ??



I'm not the one stating that they'd only consider cannabis law reform if it was proven to provide health benefits.

I'm just putting an idea out there.

[bogan]

In short, the question is whether decriminalising Cannabis is the best way to go and whether those who only smoke a joint privately in their own home should be subject to law as it stands.

I personally don't think it will help or lower costs as also is claimed by the pro camp. I do not consider that Cannabis is harmless as much as those using would like to vehemently claim it is. There are too many actual clinical trials to the contrary, (which are summarily dismissed by the stoners).

The cost thing depends a lot on how it is implemented and policed, which I haven't seen what the current popular suggestions are, anyone?

Can you post some links to those clinical trials to give backing and context to that statement?

Another topic that seems to be worth discussing, is could it replace booze and reduce the social impacts and cost that way?

[Edbear]

Fuck knows who Angry Harry is but he seems to think alcohol and tobacco are both more dangerous.]

I have never argued that tobacco and alcohol are in the first inherently harmful, and for the second, the abuse of which is a major problem. Maybe both are more serious than cannabis use as both are legally available, but that doesn't change the facts or my opinion.


Pretty stupid given that money is an infinite resource :msn-wink:, oh and that there are enough drugs if there's enough money.

To an extent you have a point, but mainly re: the Third World. I mean if it comes to that, the Catholic Church could wipe out World poverty with one cheque!

[Edbear]

Confirmation

Of..? Sorry if I by "sheer accident" made their average monthly turnover in one sale, I know that would really grate on you..


The cost thing depends a lot on how it is implemented and policed, which I haven't seen what the current popular suggestions are, anyone?

Can you post some links to those clinical trials to give backing and context to that statement?

Another topic that seems to be worth discussing, is could it replace booze and reduce the social impacts and cost that way?

Are you still too lazy to Google? Type in 'clinical trials of cannabis' and see what comes up...

[FJRider]

I'm not the one stating that they'd only consider cannabis law reform if it was proven to provide health benefits.



Neither am I ... but you seem to support the idea.

[Katman]

Neither am I ... but you seem to support the idea.

No, I support the idea of cannabis law reform regardless of whether it was proven to offer health benefits.

[bogan]

Are you still too lazy to Google? Type in 'clinical trials of cannabis' and see what comes up...

Remember what I said about insults and not backing yourself; and pointless redirection. If you make a statement about clinical trials you should provide links to them, all constructive debate should be well referenced. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referencing The first paragraph in link explains the benefits and reasons why citing (another word for referencing) work is a good way to proceed; the remainder is mostly about style and not so relevant here.

[mashman]

To an extent you have a point, but mainly re: the Third World. I mean if it comes to that, the Catholic Church could wipe out World poverty with one cheque!

Wipe out world poverty with one cheque? Sorry Miss World, but that's highly unlikely... although they could probably manage it for a short period of time.

[Katman]

Are you still too lazy to Google? Type in 'clinical trials of cannabis' and see what comes up...

You mean like this?

http://www.cannabis-med.org/studies/study.php

And this?

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/page5

[FJRider]

No, I support the idea of cannabis law reform regardless of whether it was proven to offer health benefits.

Reform may/will (no doubt) come with restrictions and conditions.

Either or both ... may not be entirely agreeable with all of those groups pushing for it..

[Katman]

Reform may/will (no doubt) come with restrictions and conditions.

Either or both ... may not be entirely agreeable with all of those groups pushing for it..

I would certainly expect there to be conditions.

There's restrictions and conditions for the sale of tobacco and alcohol also.

[Edbear]

Remember what I said about insults and not backing yourself; and pointless redirection. If you make a statement about clinical trials you should provide links to them, all constructive debate should be well referenced. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referencing The first paragraph in link explains the benefits and reasons why citing (another word for referencing) work is a good way to proceed; the remainder is mostly about style and not so relevant here.

Since you are by your own admission unwilling to do any relevant research yourself anyway, you do not inspire me to humour you. At least katman, while he seeks to oppose me, will come up with his own links found by himself.


Wipe out world poverty with one cheque? Sorry Miss World, but that's highly unlikely... although they could probably manage it for a short period of time.

Done any research into the wealth of the Vatican lately? Eye opening!


You mean like this?

http://www.cannabis-med.org/studies/study.php

And this?

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/page5

I do trust you have read them through? Clinical trials on mainly extracts of the active ingredient sought. Little about smoking it except to say it was more effective than a placebo.

The trials you should be looking for are those that research the effects on the person through smoking it, such as the driving one we looked at earlier.

Along with the links you posted should be comparisons of effectiveness and cost by comparison with other drugs.

[FJRider]

I would certainly expect there to be conditions.

There's restrictions and conditions for the sale of tobacco and alcohol also.

I'm thinking more along the lines that ... the hue and cry over the WINZ proposal to drug test their "clients" .. will be a drop in the bucket .. with any new imposed legislation ... (should it ever get introduced)

[mashman]

Done any research into the wealth of the Vatican lately? Eye opening!

The trials you should be looking for are those that research the effects on the person through smoking it, such as the driving one we looked at earlier

Even if they had a few trillion $ they couldn't eradicate poverty forever.

What about those who smoke it to a level where the effects are negligible i.e. they're used to that dosage... similar to say, someone on Tramadol getting used to the effects.

[Katman]

Along with the links you posted should be comparisons of effectiveness and cost by comparison with other drugs.

I just did what you suggested Ed. I typed 'clinical trials of cannabis' into Google.

Don't blame me if they're not the results you were hoping for.

[Edbear]

Even if they had a few trillion $ they couldn't eradicate poverty forever.

Obviously not, that would only work if every nation was fair and equitable and crared about their fellow man. Much like the financial system of the ancient Israelites. It was an interesting history lesson on finance that worked well. Too much greed and avarice today for that though I fear.

What about those who smoke it to a level where the effects are negligible i.e. they're used to that dosage... similar to say, someone on Tramadol getting used to the effects.

Not sure your point, as the issue is about decriminalising it, not who and how many are affected in what way.

To use Tramadol as an example is not correct, as for some it may be lethal or at least have severe side effects, as my own daughter can testify. All drugs affect different people in a dfferent way, so the fact that I tolerate it without any noticable or measurable effects is great. I don't with many other drugs, and as I said before, I choose my medication under the guidance of my Docs. If they say don't drive on this stuff, I don't.

How many users are going to consult their Doctor or a specialist to ascertain how much affected they are and whether they are safe to drive? And then be willing to stop using it if the results don't go their way? Any here..?

[Edbear]

I just did what you suggested Ed. I typed 'clinical trials of cannabis' into Google.

Don't blame me if they're not the results you were hoping for.

They were intersting! My point was you need to be bright enough to find what you are looking for as it relates to the discussion.

Maybe that is too much for some here?:msn-wink:

I am making way too many typos, I'm off to bed to snuggle up to my non-tattood, straight, affectionate and physically attractive wife... :niceone:

[Madness]

10 pages today. Fuck Ed, you need to get a life mate. If you know what I mean.

[mashman]

Not sure your point, as the issue is about decriminalising it, not who and how many are affected in what way.

To use Tramadol as an example is not correct, as for some it may be lethal or at least have severe side effects, as my own daughter can testify. All drugs affect different people in a dfferent way, so the fact that I tolerate it without any noticable or measurable effects is great. I don't with many other drugs, and as I said before, I choose my medication under the guidance of my Docs. If they say don't drive on this stuff, I don't.

How many users are going to consult their Doctor or a specialist to ascertain how much affected they are and whether they are safe to drive? And then be willing to stop using it if the results don't go their way? Any here..?

So me quoting you saying: "The trials you should be looking for are those that research the effects on the person through smoking it, such as the driving one we looked at earlier." How did you interpret your statement... given that you say to research the affects on a person i.e. how they are affected by smoking.

In regards to Tramadol and how many users would consult their doctor. I consulted my Dr and she seemed to think that driving wouldn't be an issue. If I had the choice between a joint as I role them and a couple of Tramadol, giving them both an hour ad then having to get into a car, then I'd take the joint irrespective of my Dr's advice. I know how the drugs affect me.

[scissorhands]

Another topic that seems to be worth discussing, is could it replace booze and reduce the social impacts and cost that way?

For many peps it has. I would hazard a guess that at least 60% of stoners I met thru the cannabis club scene no longer consume alcohol.
I was one of the very few who did, but presently only average 2-3 beers a week due to a head knock, 16 months ago

[scissorhands]

Trailer for an upcoming feature length doco made by a film maker buddy of mine.

He interviewed many authorities, including the UK police minister who came out in support of legalisation, and was then sacked, about 3 years ago

He also made the Inside NZ doco that aired twice in the last year


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kVio5JxrRE

[bogan]

See Maha, I told you rational discussion was beyond him.


Since you are by your own admission unwilling to do any relevant research yourself anyway, you do not inspire me to humour you. At least katman, while he seeks to oppose me, will come up with his own links found by himself.

You need to back your points Ed, that is how research works.


Citation has several important purposes: to uphold intellectual honesty (or avoiding plagiarism),[1] to attribute prior or unoriginal work and ideas to the correct sources, to allow the reader to determine independently whether the referenced material supports the author's argument in the claimed way, and to help the reader gauge the strength and validity of the material the author has used

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referencing

Your attempts at misdirection are completely transparent, as useful as pictures of hats or tattooed beauties, but with none of the visual appeal.

[Akzle]

...a train wreck you just can't take your eyes off, but with more boobies.
but we do like boobies.

I personally don't think it will help or lower costs

I do not consider that Cannabis is harmless

There are too many actual clinical trials to the contrary,

Most "man made drugs" are from the natural flora of the Earth.

The synthesising of drugs is an effort to keep up with demand and lower the considerable cost of the most needed or required drugs, so that as many as possible can benefit. Who, apart from the "drug companies", has the money to find and develop drugs?

pharmeceutical companies.... benefit people?! you're off your fucking trolley. they are interested in production and addiction because that's profitable and guaranteed repeat business.

the four points abve could do with some kind of... fact. as i disagree, and "you don't think" doesn't actually translate into "it will happen if legislation is changed"

i would say that most pharmaceuticals are not based on natural products, nor even synthesised/ concentrated forms of the actives.


The cost thing depends a lot on how it is implemented and policed, which I haven't seen what the current popular suggestions are, anyone?

Another topic that seems to be worth discussing, is could it replace booze and reduce the social impacts and cost that way?

i started a thread some moons ago, for the cost of one drug raid they could have kept a school in chch open and paid 3 or four teachers.
aswell, their reported "street values" are always grossly overstated. some brown kid in rotaz had "a few plants in his shed" that "had a street value of millions" doing the maths on their figuires, his shed would have to have been about 400m^2 and him pulling a pound off every plant.

in terms of "cost-benefit", enfrcing cannabis policy fails.
the only argument from the other side was that a lot of criminals have/use dope, so it's a convinient "kick me" sign and a fairly guaranteed conviction, even if the cops can't prove they burgled/stolen/hijacked/stabbed/DUI whatever.

personally, when i smoke dope on a regular (daily) basis, i smoke less tobacco and drink less booze.

and i'm clearly a well adjusted motherfucker...



The trials you should be looking for are those that research the effects on the person through smoking it, such as the driving one we looked at earlier.

Along with the links you posted should be comparisons of effectiveness and cost by comparison with other drugs.

okay ed, i'll bring a bag of weed, you pop a few slamadols and we'll take that little car for a skid eh? see who's better at it...
i'm sure we can get a KB volunteer for acid, eccy, beer, bourbon tests.... (i'll do the eccy one, if someone shouts the pills)

[Banditbandit]

Ewww, lets not :bleh:



yes - that was a strange path ...

How about ...

http://glambistro.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/cute-Sleve-Tattoo-Design-for-women.jpg

[Banditbandit]

92 pages of crap people - don't you think that's somewhat over the top? Even for Kiwi Biker ??? This is never going to be resolved ... just let it go ..

[Katman]

I have said I was addicted to prescription painkillers, namely DHC, and it ruined my life.


So let me get this straight. You had an addiction to a previous prescription drug but claim to not be addicted to your current drug of choice?

If someone came on here and said "I used to be a smack addict but I kicked that habit and only use Cocaine now and I'm not addicted to that" you'd be the first to cry "bullshit!".

[blue rider]

hahahahahahahahaha



blah blah blah

and i'm clearly a well adjusted motherfucker...



yes you are dear....but I can't bling you for that comment....hahahahahahahahaha

[Banditbandit]

and i'm clearly a well adjusted motherfucker

Gawd .. I'd have hate to have seen you before the adjustment was made ..

[Katman]

How totally ridiculous that we appear to be on the brink of legalising and regulating synthetic cannabis while the natural alternative still remains a criminal offence.

[Mushu]

How totally ridiculous that we appear to be on the brink of legalising and regulating synthetic cannabis while the natural alternative still remains a criminal offence.

As much as I'd like to agree they just made more of it illegal. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8614663/Govt-bans-more-legal-high-chemicals
And the Switched On Gardener bosses just got done on charges related to selling and owning weed growing equipment, looks like we'll have to wait longer for legalization (or decriminalization), the idiots still run this country, unfortunately.

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2

[Madness]

and i'm clearly a well adjusted motherfucker...

Clearly.


I'm sure we can get a KB volunteer for acid, eccy, beer, bourbon tests.... (i'll do the eccy one, if someone shouts the pills)

I'll take one for the team too. A trip please, it's been aaaages.


yes you are dear....but I can't bling you for that comment....hahahahahahahahaha

Consider it done.

[scissorhands]

Drugged teenagers 'out of their minds'
TRACEY CHATTERTON
Last updated 1/5/13

Violent and psychotic teenagers high on synthetic cannabis are filling up police cells and hospital emergency departments.

Five people from Bay of Plenty, Canterbury and Nelson have been admitted to hospital with severe kidney failure in recent weeks, after smoking legal synthetic cannabis drugs.

Emergency department doctors were also treating more people with convulsions, vomiting, paranoia and psychosis after having taken the legal highs.

The rise in cases comes as Associate Health Minister Peter Dunne announced a Temporary Class Drug Notice yesterday, banning two more substances found in tested samples of K2 synthetic cannabis.

Police and the Hawke's Bay District Health Board have begun a radio campaign warning the public of the dangers of taking K2.

Hawke's Bay emergency department doctor Brad Sandleback saw at least one patient every shift suffering from the effects of K2 or other synthetic cannabis products.

It was frustrating that people coming in "out of their minds" were sucking up precious hospital resources, Dr Sandleback said.

Security staff were often called upon to watch over agitated and sometimes violent patients.

Doctors could provide "supportive" care only, calming patients and giving them plenty of fluids. There is no antidote.

Doctors were also worried that more people were coming in with "enduring symptoms", National Poison Centre toxicologist Leo Schep said.

Psychotic reactions could last for weeks or even months. Parents were ringing the centre's helpline worried that their sons or daughters were still experiencing psychotic reactions, although they had stopped taking the drug.

Dr Schep said synthetic cannabis products were designed to "lock into" a certain part of the brain.

"Smoking these is like playing Russian roulette."

Eastern district police spokeswoman Kris McGehan hoped the radio advertisements on The Edge and Mai FM would deter young people from buying the drugs.

Police had no jurisdiction over shops selling the legal highs. However, communities around the country were rallying together to try to stamp out their use.

A group of Napier parents, calling themselves the Nanny Brigade, had taken to protesting outside Maraenui shops selling the legal highs.

They wanted to persuade people to take their business elsewhere until the shops stopped stocking them.

In Timaru, dairies agreed to stop selling synthetic cannabinoids after an appeal from mayor Janie Annear.

Mr Dunne's temporary bans, which will come into effect on May 9, bring to 35 the number of substances banned under temporary notices. More than 50 products containing those substances are now off the market.

His Psychoactive Substances Bill, expected to become law in August, will ban all "legal high" products unless their makers can prove they are safe

Dr Sandleback said he had dealt with the effects of legal highs while working in the United States about 10 years ago. "By outlawing it, the problem virtually disappeared."

[scissorhands]

Synthetic cannabis 'ruined my life'
By Mike Dinsdale of the Northern Advocate
1:50 PM Monday Apr 29, 2013


In the experience of Whangarei man Hugh Van Harlingen, synthetic cannabis product K2 is dangerous and should be banned immediately. Photo / Michael Cunningham

A Whangarei man says smoking synthetic cannabis caused seizures that led to his losing his job and left him unable to drive for 12 months.

Hugh Van Harlingen, aged in his 50s, is urging others not to experiment with the "dangerous substances."

He says smoking synthetic cannabis product K2 was the biggest mistake he ever made. Mr Van Harlingen decided to go public after reading in Wednesday's Northern Advocate that Whangarei lawyer Dave Sayes had written to the Government urging an immediate ban on synthetic cannabis products.

"I saw that article and just had to speak out ... I had to let others know what I have been through after smoking K2. K2 ruined my life and I don't want others to go through it," he said.

Mr Van Harlingen said he had been a cannabis smoker, but gave the habit up before trying K2 about five months ago after friends said he might enjoy it.

But two months later his life was in tatters after he lost his job due to getting seizures in the workplace, fits that also led to his being banned from driving until he had been seizure-free for 12 months, because medical experts could not be sure they would not happen again.

"I wasn't a heavy user of K2, just a couple of nights a week to help me relax after work, and I thought that because it was legal it must be safe. But boy was I wrong. It's caused me major problems."

About two months after starting smoking K2 he had had a seizure at work, the morning after having a toke at home.

"It was the first time I ever had anything like that happen to me. I just completely blacked out and can't remember anything about it, but I was fitting, and my arms and legs were jerking about and I was foaming at the mouth," he said.

"All I can remember is waking up in the ambulance on the way to hospital wondering what the hell was going on, but I didn't link it to K2 at that stage."

He was taken to hospital, but doctors were unable to find out what was wrong. His workplace stuck by him, but said he would not be able to drive any of its vehicles. Then a short time later he had another seizure at work and he had to be let go because of his inability to drive and concerns over workplace safety.

Mr Van Harlingen admits he didn't read the instructions on the K2 closely, but assumed it would be like cannabis, given that it was marketed as synthetic cannabis. "But it was different from cannabis and much worse. There was something odd about the feeling it gave."

While the doctors were struggling to find out what was wrong with him, the seizures ceased within days of quitting K2 and now, three months later, he has not had another.

"Now I'm on a sickness benefit and nobody will employ me because I can't drive for 12 months and because I've had seizures at work. It's messed my life up big time," Mr Van Harlingen said.

A Psychoactive Substances Bill has been tabled in Parliament by Associate Health Minister Peter Dunne and is expected to pass by August 1. The bill will restrict the importation, manufacture, and supply of psychoactive substances and only allow the sale of psychoactive substances that can meet safety and manufacturing requirements.

But Mr Van Harlingen said August was too long to wait: "It needs to happen now. This stuff is just too dangerous."

- NORTHERN ADVOCATE

[scissorhands]

Lawyer calls for synthetic cannabis ban
By Mike Dinsdale of the Northern Advocate
2:10 PM Wednesday Apr 24, 2013

A Whangarei criminal lawyer has asked for synthetic cannabis to be banned. Photo / File

A criminal lawyer has written to the Health Minister asking him to ban synthetic cannabis products immediately, saying they are just as dangerous as methamphetamine.

Whangarei lawyer Dave Sayes, who has been working in Northland's courts for more than 20 years, is concerned about the effects of synthetic cannabis products such as K2 due to the "psychosis, paranoia, seizures and gratuitous violence in seemingly non-violent people" he claims they cause.

"I've had a number of people and clients approach me over the last three months about K2, and other synthetics, and the erratic behaviour they are causing to people who use them," Mr Sayes said.

"It's turning people violent. It's turning people ugly. It's got the same effects that methamphetamine has.

"But it's readily and easily available and it's legal. It should be banned straight away."

Mr Sayes has written to Health Minister Tony Ryall asking him to immediately ban such products and the letter has been passed on to Associate Health Minister Peter Dunne, who is leading the charge against synthetic cannabis and party pills.

Mr Dunne's Psychoactive Substances Bill has been tabled in Parliament and is expected to pass by August 1. The bill will restrict the importation, manufacture, and supply of psychoactive substances and only allow the sale of those psychoactive substances that can meet safety and manufacturing requirements.

But Mr Sayes said that is too far away and the products were causing real harm in Northland now.

"It's out there and it's a real problem. It's got the same buzz as methamphetamine and is causing bizarre behaviour in people, including provoking extreme acts of gratuitous violence in people who have not been violent before," he said.

His pleas follows community campaigns in various parts of the country against the sale of synthetic cannabis products and warnings by doctors about extreme reactions in patients presenting at emergency departments after taking the substances.

Edward Jones sells a range of legal synthetic cannabis products from his Vine St, Whangarei store The Brew Store and said it was a simple matter of supply and demand.

"It's legal at the moment and we are an R18 shop and ask for ID from most people," Mr Jones said.

He said alcohol and tobacco were also legal and the damage those two drugs caused was well documented, but he welcomed the Psychoactive Substances Bill.

"It will get rid of the people that don't have any controls [on sale and content] in place."

He said most people buying synthetic cannabis were in their 30s or 40s and many of them professionals.

People can smoke it and not have to worry much about drug testing at their employment, Mr Jones said.

"It's an alternative to cannabis, which is why there's a market," he said.

Meanwhile, Northland police Senior Constable James McCullough said police had real concerns about retailers who choose to stock synthetic cannabinoid products.

"We are encouraging all Northland retailers not to stock synthetic cannabinoid products for their own health and the health of our community."

- NORTHERN ADVOCATE

[scissorhands]

Young teens using synthetic cannabis
BEN STRANG
Last updated 11:57 29/04/2013

Police are warning parents about synthetic cannabis products being used by young teenagers in Kapiti.

Senior Sergeant Alasdair Macmillan said Kapiti police had experienced an increase in the number of youths using synthetic cannabis, which is a restricted 18-over product. But lately teenagers as young as 14 have been found with the drug.

"They were found with the Tai High Silver Pearl product. They are strictly R18 and have caused quite a few issues in Porirua of late.

"It can cause severe paranoia, and in one case a young lady was taken to hospital with particularly bad side effects," Mr Macmillan said.

He urged parents to be aware of the synthetic cannabis and ensure young children do not use the products.

"They have a very long list of side effects. I'd urge parents to be aware of these and also for those who are experimenting, using these synthetic cannabis products."

- Kapiti Observer

[scissorhands]

audio link of Dr Leo Shep
http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/mnr/mnr-20130416-0740-health_officials_warn_against_synthetic_drugs-048.mp3


Scientist pushing K2 ban : natural Cannabis less harmful
Wednesday, 24 April 2013, 3:05 pm
Press Release: NORML

Scientist pushing K2 ban agrees natural Cannabis less harmful

In an interview on National Radio Dr Leo Schep, the toxicologist behind the Kronic ban, admitted that natural cannabis is less harmful than synthetic products currently available.

In a segment on the Nine to Noon programme a Mosgiel mother called for an immediate ban on K2 after her son experienced behavioural problems, and Dr Schep discussed Peter Dunne's Psychoactive Substances Bill, aimed at curbing the harms of synthetic cannabinoids.

Dr Schep said "synthetic cannabinoids are a hyped up version of marijuana... these were designed to lock into parts of the brain... more severely and stronger."

And when pressed by Kathryn Ryan as to whether we have "got a perverse situation at the moment where perhaps the more dangerous product is the legal one and the other is illegal." Schep agreed and said "you're right, you're absolutely right".

Although Ms Ryan mentioned potential issues arising from a black market, Dr Schep concluded "If they were taken out of the dairy today we would cut our problem in half".

But Otago NORML spokesman Abe Gray thinks we can get rid of the entire problem and address black market issues by allowing natural cannabis to be legally bought and sold.

"The demand for K2 would be wiped out overnight if users could legally buy natural cannabis instead of having to turn to the black market which only profits the gangs," Mr Gray said.

The Mosgiel mother admitted her son had been a user of natural cannabis but found it hard to get so he switched to synthetics. It wasn't until he started smoking K2 that the behavioural problems arose.

ENDS

[mashman]

looks like real momentum is building to do something about synthetic cannabis

Like legalising the real stuff perhaps :msn-wink:

[Katman]

Like legalising the real stuff perhaps :msn-wink:

And doing so would see the synthetic shit gone virtually overnight.

(It would appear that last night's Seven Sharp segment on 'legal highs' was somewhat misleading. I'm pleased to hear that moves are still underway to make it harder for these products to make it on to the market. I just hope that animals are not expected to be subjected to the testing that will be required of the products).

[mashman]

And doing so would see the synthetic shit gone virtually overnight.

(It would appear that last night's Seven Sharp segment on 'legal highs' was somewhat misleading. I'm pleased to hear that moves are still underway to make it harder for these products to make it on to the market. I just hope that animals are not expected to be subjected to the testing that will be required of the products).

Very true.

:rofl:... animal testing. screw that, give it to human beings as they're the end recipients and are able to provide feedback. Failing that, just get the natural 'erb on the market.

[_Gina_]

Very true.

:rofl:... animal testing. screw that, give it to human beings as they're the end recipients and are able to provide feedback. Failing that, just get the natural 'erb on the market.
Interesting you should say that...I start work on a control trial for synthetics next week (running the trial that is not being the GP) so will have to post some information as things progress.

I am not a fan of synthetics at all...and I come from the position of having contracted as an EA to the GM of a company called Lightyears Ahead so have had exposure to the industry form the inside of things and have sampled the product so as to have been in a position to comment and all I can say is yuk not for me. In saying that I do smoke pot marijuana from time to time. No stoner though.

[blue rider]

Very true.

:rofl:... animal testing. screw that, give it to human beings as they're the end recipients and are able to provide feedback. Failing that, just get the natural 'erb on the market.



there is no benefit in that....no much better to test the legal high that causes seizures, violent behavious etc etc on animals. At least some laboratorys will make some money - governmental dole anyone?
If this will go through, than really we are a fucked up society with absolutely no moral compass what so ever.

As for cannabis, as much as I would like to see it de-criminalised, this ain't gonna happen, to many interests involved in keeping it a criminal activity.

[Katman]

Interesting you should say that...I start work on a control trial for synthetics next week (running the trial that is not being the GP) so will have to post some information as things progress.


Does this trial involve testing on animals?

[Banditbandit]

93 pages .. you are fucking shitting me !!!

http://media-cache-is0.pinimg.com/192x/c6/32/b9/c632b93c208b5e86731b084535d52911.jpg

[_Gina_]

Does this trial involve testing on animals?
No, Humans.

[_Gina_]

93 pages .. you are fucking shitting me !!!

http://media-cache-is0.pinimg.com/192x/c6/32/b9/c632b93c208b5e86731b084535d52911.jpg

Nice hat! 10 characters

[Katman]

No, Humans.

I'm pleased to hear it.

Do you have any inside word (that you're allowed to disclose) on whether they are still considering testing these synthetic drugs on animals?

[_Gina_]

I'm pleased to hear it.

Do you have any inside word (that you're allowed to disclose) on whether they are still considering testing these synthetic drugs on animals?

Not as I understand it (hence the human control trial groups) although will ask the question for you :)

[scumdog]

Like legalising the real stuff perhaps :msn-wink:

K2 is legal - yet stores everywhere are being robbed/burgled for it.

Would the same not happen if cannabis was made legal and sold in stores??

Jus' sayin'...:whistle:

[FJRider]

K2 is legal - yet stores everywhere are being robbed/burgled for it.

Would the same not happen if cannabis was made legal and sold in stores??

Jus' sayin'...:whistle:

Maybe their benefit doesn't stretch to Booze AND smokes ... they have their rights you know .. <_<

[Akzle]

K2 is legal - yet stores everywhere are being robbed/burgled for it.

Would the same not happen if cannabis was made legal and sold in stores??

Jus' sayin'...:whistle:

probably not, cos every cunt that wanted to, could grow it. every cunt that didn't want to, would know someone who did.. y'know, kind of like how it's been for the last century... only with less police involvement./ cost to society

[gwigs]

K2 is legal - yet stores everywhere are being robbed/burgled for it.

Would the same not happen if cannabis was made legal and sold in stores??

Jus' sayin'...:whistle:
Why would you buy it when its easy to grow....
No need to rob the dairy....just sayin,

[scumdog]

Why would you buy it when its easy to grow....
No need to rob the dairy....just sayin,

But..most grass seems to be bought - sure somebody grows it - for profit.

j.s.

[gwigs]

But..most grass seems to be bought - sure somebody grows it - for profit.

j.s.

Most people dont grow it and prefer to buy it,but many would grow it themselves if it
wasnt for the fear of being busted for cultivation etc..
If it was legal you can bet plenty of people would grow it and probably would share it
with friends and no money exchanged..

[Banditbandit]

Most people dont grow it and prefer to buy it,but many would grow it themselves if it
wasnt for the fear of being busted for cultivation etc..
If it was legal you can bet plenty of people would grow it and probably would share it
with friends and no money exchanged..

yeah scummie ... getting caught for cultivation carries harsher sentences than posession of a small amount ... like one or two tinnies ...

And you can hide one or two tinnies - it's pretty hard to hide two or three plants ...

So buying small amounts carries the smaller risk of visits from popos like you ..

The Gubbermint should legalise possion of a small amount and cultivation of small amounts (12 months worth?) ... that would take away the economics of the criminal groups -as peopel would grow their own rather than buy it from the growers ...

The Gubbermint should keep sale illegal ... but people should stil be able to share it freely ...

[scissorhands]

K2 is legal - yet stores everywhere are being robbed/burgled for it.

Would the same not happen if cannabis was made legal and sold in stores??

Jus' sayin'...:whistle:

Liquor stores get rolled too and security has improved frequency yet still a valid concern. Amsterdam has some very unsavoury aspects.

K2 or cannabis should only be sold from a licensed premises, with age and security features. Not on every street corner as diary's now do for K2

That just aint right considering its harm potential. The recently highlighted dangers of Kronic make it clearly a no go zone for anyone with half a brain. When I had a few packs last year I had no idea about this recent news of harm, and would never have even tried it once, knowing what i know now

[Akzle]

But..most grass seems to be bought - sure somebody grows it - for profit.

j.s.
you must travel in fairly low-brow circles.<_<

my circles trade dope up and down the country, we're gardeners as well as pot heads, and man, we got some skunky shit at the moment :D
and none of us sell it to niggers. we mostly give it away.

search and surveil that, fuckass.

When I had a few packs last year I had no idea about this recent news of harm, and would never have even tried it once, knowing what i know now

it's a drug that wasn't designed to be smoked... go figuire.

[scumdog]

search and surveil that, fuckass.



Why??:rolleyes:

[Road kill]

Liquor stores get rolled too and security has improved frequency yet still a valid concern. Amsterdam has some very unsavoury aspects.

K2 or cannabis should only be sold from a licensed premises, with age and security features. Not on every street corner as diary's now do for K2

That just aint right considering its harm potential. The recently highlighted dangers of Kronic make it clearly a no go zone for anyone with half a brain. When I had a few packs last year I had no idea about this recent news of harm, and would never have even tried it once, knowing what i know now

That last comment applies to a lot of different things people use,,,an fuck themselves up with.

Personally I believe the very few incidents where people have over done it and had adverse affects have been blown way out of the water by the Gov't and their flunkys.
The same thing is said many times about the real thing,,so by that logic you shouldn't be smoking real pot either..

Not that it really matters because it's never really been about protecting people.
It's only ever been about people control and nothing more because if it really was about concern for a few fuck ups when so many others don't have issues with it then a lot of other "legal shit" wouldn't be going on.

I tried some DC3 a few weeks ago,,,instant strong sickening peak for about an hour and then instant straight again like I hadn't touched it.
Didn't like it at all so never again,I prefer a short intense peak followed by a long mellow stone.

Plus I don't have to pay for the real shite:D

[scumdog]

Personally I believe the very few incidents where people have over done it and had adverse affects have been blown way out of the water by the Gov't and their flunkys.

Really?
Well my experience is that K2 shit is as bad as alcohol if not worse at the moment. it is not 'overdone'.

Remove it AND alcohol I say...

[mashman]

Interesting you should say that...I start work on a control trial for synthetics next week (running the trial that is not being the GP) so will have to post some information as things progress.

I am not a fan of synthetics at all...and I come from the position of having contracted as an EA to the GM of a company called Lightyears Ahead so have had exposure to the industry form the inside of things and have sampled the product so as to have been in a position to comment and all I can say is yuk not for me. In saying that I do smoke pot marijuana from time to time. No stoner though.

Not just a pretty cunt eh :msn-wink:... sounds like fun. Are they gonna get you to try out activities whilst under the influence?

[mashman]

K2 is legal - yet stores everywhere are being robbed/burgled for it.

Would the same not happen if cannabis was made legal and sold in stores??

Jus' sayin'...:whistle:

Oh dear.

Quite possibly.

[Usarka]

My fucking house got burgled and they stole my ipad and wallet full of cash. Better make those things illegal too then.....

[Road kill]

Really?
Well my experience is that K2 shit is as bad as alcohol if not worse at the moment. it is not 'overdone'.

Remove it AND alcohol I say...

Does "at the moment" mean until your bosses say it's not or is that a personal reflection ?<_<

[Madness]

yeah scummie ... getting caught for cultivation carries harsher sentences than posession of a small amount ... like one or two tinnies ...

And you can hide one or two tinnies - it's pretty hard to hide two or three plants ...

So buying small amounts carries the smaller risk of visits from popos like you ..

The Gubbermint should legalise possion of a small amount and cultivation of small amounts (12 months worth?) ... that would take away the economics of the criminal groups -as peopel would grow their own rather than buy it from the growers ...

The Gubbermint should keep sale illegal ... but people should stil be able to share it freely ...

I just want to thank you for your contribution. This thread will reach 100 pages before we know it thanks in part to your input.

[scissorhands]

Posted by scumdog

K2 is legal - yet stores everywhere are being robbed/burgled for it.
Would the same not happen if cannabis was made legal and sold in stores??

Jus' sayin'...
Oh dear.
Quite possibly.

If an item is high value and small to transport, it will be the targeted item during a theft.
Ciggys and spirits are the highest value items as is synthetic kronic and real weed.

If a more expensive item was present, say like jewellery, it would be the targeted item

It all comes down to higher value and size to pinch, as well as desirability for the thief's to use personally.

Amsterdam and California has theft for weed activity, weed prices are still very high due to government taxes.

So prohibition or government taxes are the main driver of shop thefts:bleh:
Glad we sorted out the reasoning there:eek:
Carry on as you were:Police:

[Madness]

Pretty shit day to be holding a J-Day.

http://events.nzherald.co.nz/2013/j-day-2014/auckland

[FJRider]

Pretty shit day to be holding a J-Day.



They'll be too stoned to care ...

[Madness]

They'll be too stoned to care ...

You've never tried to smoke a 3-paper in a thunder storm then I take it?

[FJRider]

You've never tried to smoke a 3-paper in a thunder storm then I take it?

correct ...

[scumdog]

Pretty shit day to be holding a J-Day.

http://events.nzherald.co.nz/2013/j-day-2014/auckland

Shoulda been duck shooting like the rest of the country...

[FJRider]

Shoulda been duck shooting like the rest of the country...

You'd give THAT lot guns ... ???? :eek:

[Katman]

Shoulda been duck shooting like the rest of the country...

Yeah, 'cos getting pissed and killing things is so much more civilised.

[FJRider]

Yeah, 'cos getting pissed and killing things is so much more civilised.

Sometimes even ducks ...

[Tarded]

You will never fix a drug users mind.

They are permanently damaged and incapable of reasoning, like christians.

Same faith in nothing and desire to poison everyone elses mind too.

[mashman]

You will never fix a drug users mind.

They are permanently damaged and incapable of reasoning, like christians.

Same faith in nothing and desire to poison everyone elses mind too.

No need to.

And your excuse is?

So you're a christian then?

[scumdog]

Yeah, 'cos getting pissed and killing things is so much more civilised.

Glad you agree...

[scissorhands]

You will never fix a drug users mind.

They are permanently damaged and incapable of reasoning, like christians.

Same faith in nothing and desire to poison everyone elses mind too.

We are born into the grave, damaged at birth due to industrialisation. Lack of reasoning is a societal problem, not a drug users or Christian's exclusive right.

Look how the government has the more harmful legal versions available to the people.... this is where poisoned minds originate from... the source...

[Banditbandit]

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRT7btQEuu_u_lpp_cR87ZapAxkvirDW 5Xy7TdZ8qbxZaV46Bospr34T4-Axw

[scissorhands]

or much of the media, music and film and creative works we enjoy, and have done so for a long time
jesters and baffoons would abound, in the day

towns without art are usually not as good
tv cop show actors having a sheesh on the weekend:laugh:

[Akzle]

four more pages guys.. look lively...

[mashman]

So after reading the thread. Have the anti-cannabis brigade learned anything? I'm gonna go for :killingme

[Katman]

So after reading the thread. Have the anti-cannabis brigade learned anything? I'm gonna go for :killingme

Hey, at least Ed opened up about his addiction.

[mashman]

Hey, at least Ed opened up about his addiction.

Fair point... and a great start. Only 4 more to go. I have to say I'm looking forward to Ed Anger

[Edbear]

Fair point... and a great start. Only 4 more to go. I have to say I'm looking forward to Ed Anger

Nah, that's as real as Katman's delusions about me. :sleep:

[bogan]

So after reading the thread. Have the anti-cannabis brigade learned anything? I'm gonna go for :killingme

Well, some of us who used to be more on the fence have.

[mashman]

Nah, that's as real as Katman's delusions about me. :sleep:

Let me see the anger Ed.


Well, some of us who used to be more on the fence have.

Hopefully in a positive way... erm, the way I might mean positive, not Ed

[bogan]

Hopefully in a positive way... erm, the way I might mean positive, not Ed

Indeed, Eds 'argument' was a bit lacking in substance, however the 'substance abusers' seemed to have a lot more...

[Madness]

3 more.

I haven't seen anyone get the learn quite like Grubber did in this thread in a very long time. Cannabis users aren't all druggies, the obvious "dropouts" that stereo-types might have us believe. They're often normal people, each contributing to society in their own way and often right under the nose of the sheeple who believe all Cannabis users have two heads and devil horns.

[mashman]

Indeed, Eds 'argument' was a bit lacking in substance, however the 'substance abusers' seemed to have a lot more...

I get Ed's argument, although I don't give it the weight that he feels that it deserves. A simple freedom that'd stop the labeling of people that use the stuff as criminals as well as removing the waste of money that goes towards chasing and incarcerating people for something that is essentially about as dangerous as alcohol at worst.

Doh add

v's

It's bad for your health.

[Akzle]

Hopefully in a positive way... erm, the way I might mean positive, not Ed
HIV?

Indeed, Eds 'argument' was a bit lacking in substance, however the 'substance abusers' seemed to have a lot more...

have a lot more arguments? or substance abuse?

[mashman]

HIV?

No thanks.

[Akzle]

No thanks.

are you sure...?

[FJRider]

have a lot more arguments? or substance abuse?


more lacking ...

[mashman]

are you sure...?

What methods of delivery are you proposing?

[sidecar bob]

3 more.

I haven't seen anyone get the learn quite like Grubber did in this thread in a very long time. Cannabis users aren't all druggies, the obvious "dropouts" that stereo-types might have us believe. They're often normal people, each contributing to society in their own way and often right under the nose of the sheeple who believe all Cannabis users have two heads and devil horns.

I doubt the "sheeple" (and what a retarded term that is) think cannabis users have two heads & devil horns, they just think they are deluded dreamers not worth wasting time on.

[scissorhands]

so stop wasting so much time arresting them.... subjecting them to hate speech.... there is reasons that they are addicts, mostly medical and bad parenting

having big brother put the boot in, to boot, really helps - not!

hate speech just inflames conflict and keeps the drug war going
your polarising speech entrenches bad behaviours on both sides!!

[98tls]

I get Ed's argument, although I don't give it the weight that he feels that it deserves. A simple freedom that'd stop the labeling of people that use the stuff as criminals as well as removing the waste of money that goes towards chasing and incarcerating people for something that is essentially about as dangerous as alcohol at worst.

Doh add

v's

It's bad for your health.

Crazy eh.Imagine the cost to society from tobacco and whilst theres a shift to seperating smokers from others its pretty much acceptable practice.

[Madness]

I doubt the "sheeple" (and what a retarded term that is) think cannabis users have two heads & devil horns, they just think they are deluded dreamers not worth wasting time on.

You may have to trawl back to Grubbers earlier epic fail to understand what I was getting at, I wasn't generalising all non Cannabis users. To stereotype a group of society in such a way would be extremely ignorant in my opinion and would drag one down to the level you so clearly occupy. Honest question; what are your views on pissheads?

[mashman]

Crazy eh.Imagine the cost to society from tobacco and whilst theres a shift to seperating smokers from others its pretty much acceptable practice.

Probably coz anyone, apart from sidecar knob coz he's special :drool:, realises that it is users choice in regards to the users health... be it fatty fooods, 10 litres of coke/day, a cig, a spliff, a few swift drinks after work etc... I'm all for letting people kill themselves if they so choose to, or at least take the chance. It's gotta be safer than riding a sidecar. Remove the $ cost entirely and there's no cost at all :D, just us stupid fucks filling our body's full of dangerous chemicals and losing X number of years off our lives.

[sidecar bob]

I know exactly what you mean, I feel the same way about pissheads. You may have to trawl back to Grubbers earlier epic fail to understand what I was getting at, I wasn't generalising all non Cannabis users. To stereotype a group of society in such a way would be extremely ignorant in my opinion and would drag one down to the level you so clearly occupy.
Im not stereotyping. I just find that whenever some halfwit comes into work with huge dreams, fuck all money & no realistic idea about how business is done, I can guarantee their car will reek of pot & have roaches in the ashtray.

[scissorhands]

mild alcohol consumption may increase life expectancy, a happy stoner may be better off than a miserable teetotaller, plants to help forget may just do exactly that

maybe its fun and social and happy to do with other people??
like having a beer or coffee

[Madness]

Im not stereotyping.

Like fuck you're not. And I'm the one on drugs in this conversation, classic.

[mashman]

mild alcohol consumption may increase life expectancy, a happy stoner may be better off than a miserable teetotaller, plants to help forget may just do exactly that

maybe its fun and social and happy to do with other people??
like having a beer or coffee

Hush your mouth. That's ridiculously way too sensible of a point of view to have. :spanking:

[scumdog]

I do wish people would stop rabbitting on about how much worse than cannabis alcohol is.

We all know too much alcamahol is not going to be good for you.

But it's as if the toker-types need something to point out as worse than cannabis so that they feel good about themselves.

(Assuming they don't drink and toke at the same time...)

[mashman]

I do wish people would stop rabbitting on about how much worse than cannabis alcohol is.

We all know too much alcamahol is not going to be good for you.

But it's as if the toker-types need something to point out as worse than cannabis so that they feel good about themselves.

(Assuming they don't drink and toke at the same time...)

It's merely to highlight the hypocrisy of the anti-brigade's argument. Whilst the anti-brigade see alcohol as benign, tokey-types accept the risks of alcohol and the risks of cannabis and generally choose to be a tokey-type for a reason... and not just mindlessly taking drugs for the sake of it.

[scumdog]

It's merely to highlight the hypocrisy of the anti-brigade's argument. Whilst the anti-brigade see alcohol as benign, tokey-types accept the risks of alcohol and the risks of cannabis and generally choose to be a tokey-type for a reason... and not just mindlessly taking drugs for the sake of it.


Sorry, I must have missed quotes from the 'anti-brigade' that indicate they thought alcohol as 'benign'...
(Although in moderation it can be - like a lot of other things)

[Mushu]

I do wish people would stop rabbitting on about how much worse than cannabis alcohol is.

We all know too much alcamahol is not going to be good for you.

But it's as if the toker-types need something to point out as worse than cannabis so that they feel good about themselves.

(Assuming they don't drink and toke at the same time...)

I smoked weed for the same reason the average person drinks alcohol (a wind down, an escape or social lubricant), why shouldn't they be compared.


Sorry, I must have missed quotes from the 'anti-brigade' that indicate they thought alcohol as 'benign'...
(Although in moderation it can be - like a lot of other things)

The same can be said for pot.

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[scissorhands]

I do wish people would stop rabbitting on about how much worse than cannabis alcohol is.

We all know too much alcamahol is not going to be good for you.

But it's as if the toker-types need something to point out as worse than cannabis so that they feel good about themselves.

(Assuming they don't drink and toke at the same time...)

aahh they would be the ones who were shocking alcoholics before they became stoners
its like ex tobacco smokers being the worst

plus its turning the tables and emotional blackmail for the hypocrisy

but for them, they are so much better off on grass than booze

I tend to agree its safer, and makes police work a lot easier

True rasta dont drink or tobacco either, but be politic aye?

[Katman]

I

But it's as if the toker-types need something to point out as worse than cannabis so that they feel good about themselves.



Dude, anyone with a handlebar moustache, wearing a cowboy hat and a his/hers matching jacket, probably shouldn't be questioning other people's feeling of self-worth.

[scumdog]

Dude, anyone with a handlebar moustache, wearing a comboy hat and a his/hers matching jacket, probably shouldn't be questioning other people's feeling of self-worth.

oooo...you're SO judgemental!:laugh:

[mashman]

Sorry, I must have missed quotes from the 'anti-brigade' that indicate they thought alcohol as 'benign'...
(Although in moderation it can be - like a lot of other things)

The ones that were wittering on about being able to moderate their alcohol consumption to the point of them not being intoxicated. They're around if you really wanna go and look for them. But even the mighty mash says "fuck it" when there's 98 pages to wade through.

[mashman]

oooo...you're SO judgemental!:laugh:

and you are the law. You two should get together. Not in the biblical sense like, unless of course you're into that sort of thing and Katman gives consent.

[Katman]

You two should get together.

We had a brief encounter.

(Not in our undies though).

[mashman]

We had a brief encounter.

(Not in our undies though).

So let me get this straight. You weren't wearing undies?

[gwigs]

This is what driving stoned looks like.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/8333428/This-is-what-driving-stoned-looks-like








<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/dw1HavgoK9E?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Mushu]

This is what driving stoned looks like.

Interesting, they should have tested alcohol and some common prescription drugs (eg. tremadol) at similar levels at the same time for comparison.

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[scumdog]

Interesting, they should have tested alcohol and some common prescription drugs (eg. tremadol) at similar levels at the same time for comparison.

Sent from my XT535 using Tapatalk 2

Seen a few alcohol-related tests - similar results and mostly BEFORE they get to the legal limit.

[Edbear]

Seen a few alcohol-related tests - similar results and mostly BEFORE they get to the legal limit.

That has pretty much been my point all along. Alcohol is legal and highly regulated and look at the issues we have with it. Legalising Cannabis is not going to change much as there is an increasing number of people driving under that influence too.

The problem with decriminalising cannabis is shown in the Portuguese example where it has had very mixed results. It definitely doesn't save any money or solve the gang problem. Added to that is the actual number of users who "just have the occasional joint at home" is definitely in the very small minority.

[scissorhands]

That was a lot of weed they consumed. They looked more and more stoned, but even the .3 gram after the 1st seesh is a lot of weed to bong, for someone [the 2 males] with no cannabis in their system.

To go on and consume 1.5grams [the regular user girl] and then be tested is equivalent to someone drinking 10-15 beers

ridiculously big amount of weed consumed.

[scumdog]

That was a lot of weed they consumed. They looked more and more stoned, but even the .3 gram after the 1st seesh is a lot of weed to bong, for someone [the 2 males] with no cannabis in their system.

To go on and consume 1.5grams [the regular user girl] and then be tested is equivalent to someone drinking 10-15 beers

ridiculously big amount of weed consumed.

The only thing missing from the test was a few 'collision avoidance' tests where an unexpected obstacle is put on front of the driver, something they could not really anticipate..

[Mushu]

Seen a few alcohol-related tests - similar results and mostly BEFORE they get to the legal limit.

Yea there have been plenty of alcohol related tests but a direct comparison would be interesting, especially if they use legal limits as the yard stick on both test groups (given they were several times the legal limit for these tests) although I would be even more interested in the comparison to common prescription drugs.

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[scissorhands]

Just saw that lynch mob of protesters outside the head shop in Manurewa:laugh: on the news... its still gaining momentum!

[mashman]

That has pretty much been my point all along. Alcohol is legal and highly regulated and look at the issues we have with it. Legalising Cannabis is not going to change much as there is an increasing number of people driving under that influence too.

The problem with decriminalising cannabis is shown in the Portuguese example where it has had very mixed results. It definitely doesn't save any money or solve the gang problem. Added to that is the actual number of users who "just have the occasional joint at home" is definitely in the very small minority.

So legalise it.

[bogan]

It definitely doesn't save any money or solve the gang problem.

Source?

And if you mean this one (http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/evaluating-drug-decriminalization-in-portugal-12-years-later-a-891060-2.html) it says nothing of the sort.

[Mushu]

Source?

And if you mean this one (http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/evaluating-drug-decriminalization-in-portugal-12-years-later-a-891060-2.html) it says nothing of the sort.

Ed: shown to have his head up his ass again, lol.
Judging by what I have read, it hasn't cost anything at all for Portugal to have decriminalized drugs, and as far as I can tell less people in prison needlessly must save some money. Also HIV rates in Portugal have dropped significantly (according to the quoted source) surely that saves money in the healthcare department too.

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[Edbear]

Source?

And if you mean this one (http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/evaluating-drug-decriminalization-in-portugal-12-years-later-a-891060-2.html) it says nothing of the sort.

You did read both articles?


Ed: shown to have his head up his ass again, lol.
Judging by what I have read, it hasn't cost anything at all for Portugal to have decriminalized drugs, and as far as I can tell less people in prison needlessly must save some money. Also HIV rates in Portugal have dropped significantly (according to the quoted source) surely that saves money in the healthcare department too.

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HIV has nothing to do with Cannabis use. You also didn't read the entire articles either?

[bogan]

You did read both articles?

Of course. If you found something it will be a simple matter for you to back yourself by posting the quotation, along with it's location and which article it is in.

[gwigs]

Police want to supply free heroin


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1364755/Police-want-to-supply-free-heroin.html

Yes Well mmm..

[mashman]

You did read both articles?

HIV has nothing to do with Cannabis use. You also didn't read the entire articles either?

And the conclusion from the feet on the ground is "No drug policy, Zobel says, can genuinely prevent people from taking drugs -- at least, he is not familiar with any model that works this way. As for Portugal, Zobel says, "This is working. Drug consumption has not increased severely. There is no mass chaos. For me as an evaluator, that's a very good outcome.".

Did you read the articles?

[mashman]

Police want to supply free heroin

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1364755/Police-want-to-supply-free-heroin.html

Yes Well mmm..

Ya gotta laugh or :facepalm: when you read things like

"There had been previous experiments in prescribing heroin. In 1989, a system offering chronic addicts pharmaceutical heroin on the NHS began in the North. The so-called Widnes experiment, under Dr John Marks, a psychiatrist, ran for five years.

The clinic claimed there were no drug-related deaths or HIV infection, and a significant improvement in health among the group of addicts. Police in north Cheshire reported a 93-per-cent reduction in drug-related crime among the addicts but in 1994, the experiment's funding was stopped."

Wonder how the UK woulda turned out.

[Mushu]

HIV has nothing to do with Cannabis use. You also didn't read the entire articles either?

Both pages?
Yes I read the whole article, did you?

Of course HIV has nothing to do with cannabis use but you did refer to Portugal saying there had been no benefit, pretty sure the article said the opposite, the only problem they're having (according to the article) was a likely future lack of funding due to problems with the euro.

So it seems like there would be some benefit to decriminalization

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[Edbear]

Of course. If you found something it will be a simple matter for you to back yourself by posting the quotation, along with it's location and which article it is in.


And the conclusion from the feet on the ground is "No drug policy, Zobel says, can genuinely prevent people from taking drugs -- at least, he is not familiar with any model that works this way. As for Portugal, Zobel says, "This is working. Drug consumption has not increased severely. There is no mass chaos. For me as an evaluator, that's a very good outcome.".

Did you read the articles?

I have read both and will post the relevant quotes later.

[unstuck]

Some bugger just dobbed me in, and I lost all my weed.:baby:

[Akzle]

100 fucking pages. Does this mean laava gets some kind of accolade?
Must be one hell of a mod orgy, since it STILL hasnt been binned.

[mashman]

I have read both and will post the relevant quotes later.

I await with baited breath... although I'm gonna eat my toast and brush my teeth so it'll be a little less baited in a tick

[mashman]

Some bugger just dobbed me in, and I lost all my weed.:baby:

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Someone else's daughter grassing you in perhaps :eek:

[Edbear]

"Drug users aren't criminals, they're sick."

Interesting comment...

Note the Portuguese example is not without regulations that I doubt many here would like, too.

"The police still search people for drugs," Goulão points out. Hashish, cocaine, ecstasy -- Portuguese police still seize and destroy all these substances.

Before doing so, though, they first weigh the drugs and consult the official table with the list of 10-day limits. Anyone possessing drugs in excess of these amounts is treated as a dealer and charged in court. Anyone with less than the limit is told to report to a body known as a "warning commission on drug addiction" within the next 72 hours.

The Second Time Brings Consequences "

"We haven't found some miracle cure," Goulão says. Still, taking stock after nearly 12 years, his conclusion is, "Decriminalization hasn't made the problem worse." Nor has it made it better?

It is not a cheap exercise...

"At the moment, Goulão's greatest concern is the Portuguese government's austerity policies in the wake of the euro crisis. Decriminalization is pointless, he says, without being accompanied by prevention programs, drug clinics and social work conducted directly on the streets. Before the euro crisis, Portugal spent €75 million ($98 million) annually on its anti-drug programs. So far, Goulão has only seen a couple million cut from his programs, but if the crisis in the country grows worse, at some point there may no longer be enough money"

And I'm sure you users believe this guy doesn't know what he is talking about either...

"Pinto Coelho is a doctor too. He has run rehab centers and written books about addiction. Now he's at odds with former colleagues and with "the system," as he says."

[Laava]

Who will get post 1500?

[bogan]

Nor has it made it better?

That question mark suggests 'definitely' is a bit of a stretch.


It is not a cheap exercise...

"At the moment, Goulão's greatest concern is the Portuguese government's austerity policies in the wake of the euro crisis. Decriminalization is pointless, he says, without being accompanied by prevention programs, drug clinics and social work conducted directly on the streets. Before the euro crisis, Portugal spent €75 million ($98 million) annually on its anti-drug programs. So far, Goulão has only seen a couple million cut from his programs, but if the crisis in the country grows worse, at some point there may no longer be enough money"

Again, cost of preventative, anti-drug programs doesn't reflect the actual money it may save.

Making your comment that "It definitely doesn't save any money or solve the gang problem." completely without factual backing. Ed, you have to learn to read with comprehension instead of just reading what you want to hear.

[Mushu]

"Drug users aren't criminals, they're sick."

Interesting comment...

Note the Portuguese example is not without regulations that I doubt many here would like, too.

"The police still search people for drugs," Goulão points out. Hashish, cocaine, ecstasy -- Portuguese police still seize and destroy all these substances.

Before doing so, though, they first weigh the drugs and consult the official table with the list of 10-day limits. Anyone possessing drugs in excess of these amounts is treated as a dealer and charged in court. Anyone with less than the limit is told to report to a body known as a "warning commission on drug addiction" within the next 72 hours.

The Second Time Brings Consequences "

"We haven't found some miracle cure," Goulão says. Still, taking stock after nearly 12 years, his conclusion is, "Decriminalization hasn't made the problem worse." Nor has it made it better?

It is not a cheap exercise...

"At the moment, Goulão's greatest concern is the Portuguese government's austerity policies in the wake of the euro crisis. Decriminalization is pointless, he says, without being accompanied by prevention programs, drug clinics and social work conducted directly on the streets. Before the euro crisis, Portugal spent €75 million ($98 million) annually on its anti-drug programs. So far, Goulão has only seen a couple million cut from his programs, but if the crisis in the country grows worse, at some point there may no longer be enough money"

And I'm sure you users believe this guy doesn't know what he is talking about either...

"Pinto Coelho is a doctor too. He has run rehab centers and written books about addiction. Now he's at odds with former colleagues and with "the system," as he says."

It's decriminalization, not legalization so of course the cops still search people, I would expect that to not change and the interviews would go a long way towards helping those that use to excess.

The cost is obvious, like in any healthcare situation, helping those who are sick costs money. (it also costs to see them in court and lock them up and not helping them surely increases chances of reoffending) and it's the euro crisis that threatens their funding, not some kind of drug induced crisis.

It seems to me Pinto Coelho doesn't know what he's talking about although everytime I see his name it comes up in articles that support the opposite view to his which likely effects the quality of his arguments that I am exposed to.

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[Katman]

Ed, you have to learn to read with comprehension instead of just reading what you want to hear.

That's not what he's been programmed to do.

[Madness]

100 pages eh? Calls for a doob.

[mashman]

"Drug users aren't criminals, they're sick."

Interesting comment...

Note the Portuguese example is not without regulations that I doubt many here would like, too.

"The police still search people for drugs," Goulão points out. Hashish, cocaine, ecstasy -- Portuguese police still seize and destroy all these substances.

Before doing so, though, they first weigh the drugs and consult the official table with the list of 10-day limits. Anyone possessing drugs in excess of these amounts is treated as a dealer and charged in court. Anyone with less than the limit is told to report to a body known as a "warning commission on drug addiction" within the next 72 hours.

The Second Time Brings Consequences "

"We haven't found some miracle cure," Goulão says. Still, taking stock after nearly 12 years, his conclusion is, "Decriminalization hasn't made the problem worse." Nor has it made it better?

It is not a cheap exercise...

"At the moment, Goulão's greatest concern is the Portuguese government's austerity policies in the wake of the euro crisis. Decriminalization is pointless, he says, without being accompanied by prevention programs, drug clinics and social work conducted directly on the streets. Before the euro crisis, Portugal spent €75 million ($98 million) annually on its anti-drug programs. So far, Goulão has only seen a couple million cut from his programs, but if the crisis in the country grows worse, at some point there may no longer be enough money"

And I'm sure you users believe this guy doesn't know what he is talking about either...

"Pinto Coelho is a doctor too. He has run rehab centers and written books about addiction. Now he's at odds with former colleagues and with "the system," as he says."

Why is it such an interesting comment? Food is a drug for some people, coffee, people who drink alcohol (not alcoholics) etc... Nothing much interesting about it other than it describes a wide range of user groups. I think you'll find that's a label to appease the fascists of this world.

As for the regulations... I reckon they should go even further, hence legalisation. By all means try to encourage "addicts" to go into rehab programs as any drug can be addictive, but don't hang your hopes on it. If the programs are available, then they only have themselves to blame should they do something stupid. I have no qualms with being tested at work providing the tests are measuring if I have taken anything within say 6(ish) hours.

It's cheaper to legalise... and you'll likely end up with the same is it or is it not working questions. I say this because decriminalisation does not stop you from taking the drugs. I find it moderately amusing that they ended up in a situation where being caught with drugs in your pocket leads to being processed through the system etc... Primarily because the person may well have never been stopped, yet all of a sudden the person will be labelled sick. I reckon that probably sums up many of the mature brigade and plenty of the young brigade. After all, we aren't out to get hammered and we aren't constantly hammered. As has been mentioned, where some have a couple of drinks at the end of the day (alcohol is a drug), others have a wee toot. Tagging them as sick is placation, no more, no less. Legalisation will save on fuckloads of cash and should generate some in return.

:rofl:@Pinto Coelho. He wants a drug free world and is the last of the great dissenters. That should tell you something. No doubt he understands addiction very well, but saying "Pinto Coelho wants his country to return to normalcy, in the form of the tough war on drugs". Normalcy? Everything was normal before him and his prehistoric cohorts banned the substances back ion the day. And all because they want to save people from themselves, oh and to stop the hemp industry. It's a noble sentiment, but it is an unwanted one on my count, and likely many others too. When do we get to exercise our choice?

[awayatc]

thats a fucking long post mushman.............

could maybe even read some of it with the right drugs.....

However I don't do drugs....

Don't need to

brain is chemicaly perfectly balanced as is...

lucky me...

[unstuck]

100 pages eh? Calls for a doob.

Sounds good, but they only left me with enough for a couple of joints, and I smoked that as soon as they left. :headbang:

[mashman]

thats a fucking long post mushman.............

could maybe even read some of it with the right drugs.....

However I don't do drugs....

Don't need to

brain is chemicaly perfectly balanced as is...

lucky me...

:rofl:... The post could have been much longer. I haz a unique style ;)

[scissorhands]

1500 posts, yes