Zero Tolerance

[peasea]

More people are murdered by religion each year than by drinking and driving.

"Not really a fair comparison."

Why not? Religious freaks are always going on about how peaceful they are and how gentle they are then they jam a bloody bomb up your arse! Read the history books for crying out loud!!! Religion has a lot to answer for and it's all just hollow words, empty rhetoric and meaningless mumbo jumbo. If you want to help the planet get off your keyboard and go shoot the Pope, the Archbishop of Canterbury and any Muslim you clap eyes on.

Now where's my morning bourbon? I'm off for a ride.

[Paul in NZ]

Like a beer festival?

Absolutely - I mean would you trust a bunch of germanics in tight leather short after a few beers? The buxom wenches with foaming jugs are just bait for the trap...

Nah! Ya gotta be sensible but drunken wankers smashing places up is no good. The other option is to arm the Police and encourage them to shoot drunks.

[Grahameeboy]

More people are murdered by religion each year than by drinking and driving.

"Not really a fair comparison."

Why not? Religious freaks are always going on about how peaceful they are and how gentle they are then they jam a bloody bomb up your arse! Read the history books for crying out loud!!! Religion has a lot to answer for and it's all just hollow words, empty rhetoric and meaningless mumbo jumbo. If you want to help the planet get off your keyboard and go shoot the Pope, the Archbishop of Canterbury and any Muslim you clap eyes on.

Now where's my morning bourbon? I'm off for a ride.

Yep but I am not a Religious Freak and not a Roman Catholic or Church of England but agree that Religion does have a lot too answer for....or should I say people who do things in the name of religion....misguided like drink driving so I partially take back my comment.

[Squeak the Rat]

Sober driver
Taxi...split 4 ways is not expensive.
Dial a Driver
Responsible people..........

Why we do we have this too hard basket mentality.

Huh? All these tools are available to us now!

One glass of beer is not enough to cause a normal person to decide to get drunk and drive. To get past the legal limit stage they must already have an attitude that drink driving is acceptable.

A zero tolerance will not change the attitude of people who currently drive over the current limit.

[scumdog]

Right. And the sober driver is going to drive everyone to work for the next four days. And drive everyone else to wherever they need to go. Because it will be four days before the alcohol level reaches zero..

You may well be right but we only forbid somebody to drive for 12 hours after being 'done' for eba, after that you would not (I believe) get a 'reading' on our present testing systems.

BUT since education doesn't work on Kiwis I suggest the penalties be made harsher.

Like if you blow double the limit or more (where the problem drinker levels seem to be) the vehicle you were driving is pulled from under your arse and crushed. No questions.
3 YEARS disqualification (Use to be the minimum in the early 70's)
Mandatory jail for 2nd and subsequent convictions.
No 'work' licences for 2nd or subsequent eba (You'ld be surprised how many truck drivers get done each year - it's their bloody livlihood fgs!)
Get caught driving while disqualified (as a result of eba) and rule 1 penalty applies.

The other option is to arm the Police and encourage them to shoot drunks.

The Government wouldn't agree - they wouldn't be able to pay for the bullets needed!!

[Grahameeboy]

Huh? All these tools are available to us now!

One glass of beer is not enough to cause a normal person to decide to get drunk and drive. To get past the legal limit stage they must already have an attitude that drink driving is acceptable.

A zero tolerance will not change the attitude of people who currently drive over the current limit.

How do we know?

1 drink can still be enough to impair judgement.

[peasea]

You may well be right but we only forbid somebody to drive for 12 hours after being 'done' for eba, after that you would not (I believe) get a 'reading' on our present testing systems.

Not telling you how to suck eggs SD but my brother in law DID blow a bag one morning and got the big slap. Added to that I swallowed a fair old slice of JB on Saturday and my missus wouldn't let me drive on Sunday, she said I reeked!

1 drink can still be enough to impair judgement.

Too true, I've woken up with some horrors!

[Grahameeboy]

The Government wouldn't agree - they wouldn't be able to pay for the bullets needed!!

Yeah but if they were drunk they would not know you were pretending...pow pow k'pow...your dead....count to 100 and if you can'y your nicked

Too true, I've woken up with some horrors!

How is the Wife?.............

[Ixion]

I do not disagree, however, what is wrong with trying. If what SD says and highre fines will not deter then surely it is worth trying........what have we got to lose.

You keep saying "what have we to lose" and "what harm can it do". Implying , nothing and none.

In fact we have a great deal to lose , and it can do a great deal of harm.

We will lose credibility. At present the limit is considered reasonable. People agree that anyone over it deserves punishment. They agree that driving over the present limit is dangerous. A zero limit would not be respected. Only a wowser would believe that driving after a single glass of wine is dangerous. So when people were stopped and prosecuted, their friends would not say "Well, you deserved it, that was silly and dangerous" They would say"Oh bad luck , stupid law, bloody cops".

It would put pressure on the cops to turn a blind eye. Because many of them would not believe in it.

We would probably actually see an increase in driving when actually drunk. Because the people who now stop after a couple "No thanks, I'm driving, and I've already had a couple", will figure "Oh hell, I've already had one, so that's that. Might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb"

It would be a major detriment to social activities in much of the country. Dial a driver and sober driver sharing etc may work fine in yuppie Devonport. "Oh I'm alright, Maurice and I can just walk down to the cafes". But in a lot of the country social events , even just a meal with the neighbours, mean driving. Because there are no taxis. And the other nearest neighbours are 30km in the other direction.

Even in cities, the disuption to social activities would be great. And not just parties. There are a good many old people who rely on their car to get to church. Where they would , by zero tolerance, be banned from Communion. The communion wine, remember. Zero tolerance means zero. For everyone. Not just zero for other people or zero for activities you do not approve of.

The loss of social grace, of conviviality , is indeed a loss, and society would suffer harm thereby. A wowser society, grey, cruel, Puritan, devoid of friendship , good cheer, and merriment: such a society would indeed be a loss.

And as for the ultimate goal of the wowsers, prohibition? Well, anyone who does not belive that would do no harm needs some compulsary history lessons.

[scumdog]

You may well be right but we only forbid somebody to drive for 12 hours after being 'done' for eba, after that you would not (I believe) get a 'reading' on our present testing systems.

Not telling you how to suck eggs SD but my brother in law DID blow a bag one morning and got the big slap. Added to that I swallowed a fair old slice of JB on Saturday and my missus wouldn't let me drive on Sunday, she said I reeked!

And your brother HAD stopped drinking 12 hours earlier?

(BTW we get heaps done after they have had "just had 4 or 5 hours sleep mate" meaning they finished drinking about 6 or less hours ago... 'sleeping it off' does not work if the sleep is only a few hours).

[Squeak the Rat]

1 drink can still be enough to impair judgement.

Not for decisions about big risks. How many people have one drink and then jump off a building? Answer: only those that were contemplating suicide in the first place.

[peasea]

How is the Wife?.............

Not very good actually, one of the reasons I left her in 01.

[MSTRS:Me]

3 YEARS disqualification (Use to be the minimum in the early 70's)

Whilst I agree with the sentiment (and the other points you made), on which planet was the above? Old drunk I knew back then was pulled for no tail light on his Ford Popular (only had one to start with, I think) - bad boy, he was pissed - wouldn't have known it from his driving tho - he got 6 months disq

[Ixion]

You may well be right but we only forbid somebody to drive for 12 hours after being 'done' for eba, after that you would not (I believe) get a 'reading' on our present testing systems.

Correct. The present testing systems have a "bottom limit". To prevent spurious very low readings . Like speedos that start at 5kph. But the bottom limit is not zero. 12 hours is enough (in most cases) for alcohol levels to drop below the *present* limit - but not to rop to zero. It's one of those curves where the last little bit takes ages - like top speed on a 250.

Personally I have no issue with tougher penalties for those exceeding the present limit. An even tougher ones for those who injure or kill when over the limit. As I have said, the present limit is reasonable, and sufficient for social purposes.

[peasea]

[QUOTE=scumdog;1036122]

And your brother HAD stopped drinking 12 hours earlier?

He was an in-law, my brothers are ok, that guys a wanker. Anywayyyyy, I can't recall how much sleep he'd had, probably not 12hrs. He's a shocker, my sister left him and he eneded up doing time for ripping off old ladies in insurance scams. Shows you the type he is and that's the type we want off the roads. (And out of the community.)

I've been a bit isolated the last couple of days, what happened near Rotorua? I heard a Guzzi went down and people died. It hasn't been a happy few days on the road.