Illegal Doco on TV2.

[jono035]

When was the last time a knife, rope, hammer or car weilded by a pimply deranged snot rag took out a bunch of cops? or a heap of kids before he could be over powered? How often does this happen.

Hell why shouldn't everyone have nukes? They will be even more fun, bigger bang and can kill even more people quicker than a gun. I can't wait to get mine.

Nice scenario. Generally anyone who shows up anywhere with a firearm gets shot pretty quick by the armed offenders squad. If you're talking about Jan Molenaar, I'm pretty certain that if he hadn't had any firearms then he would still have done a similar amount of damage with a knife.

The scenario you outlined, even in the US, is an isolated situation. If someone wanted to they could gas a classroom full of people with chlorine gas, barricade people in and set fire to a building, make themselves a pipebomb from fertilizer and set it off in a crowd.

Personally I prefer the idea of some guy wandering around with a firearm, that at least you can see coming and he has to be there to be taken care of.

Either way, I don't think either of us is going to convince the other and we are getting away from the thread topic so I'm going to leave this here.

To everyone else, I am serious about my invitation to come and see for yourselves what firearms owners in NZ are really like (a lot of fathers, often shooting with their families)...

[jono035]

cars kill people and knives kill people and arrows kill people and ropes kill people and hammers kill people...

I am led to believe that motorcycles kill people... A person can only use one of them at a time, as well.

Well, motorcycle and a hammer on a rope might be the way to go! Just think of the unstoppable power!

Banning motorcycles because they kill people makes about as much sense!

[awayatc]

Hell why shouldn't everyone have nukes? They will be even more fun, bigger bang and can kill even more people quicker than a gun. I can't wait to get mine.

better lay that pipe down for today sonny, you seem to have had enough.....

[The Stranger:Me]

Nice scenario. Generally anyone who shows up anywhere with a firearm gets shot pretty quick by the armed offenders squad.

Yes I see that.
I did look up mass killing via swinging a rope froma motorcycle, but it appears that is not a weapon of choice to nutters. Go figure, I was so sure you were onto something there.

[NDORFN]

Yup 'documentries' like that piss me off - what a beat up.

But dumb gun owners giving reporters 'ammo' for such a doco piss me off more.

I agree. Two wrongs don't make a right. They make enough for stories like this to pay thier dues, so he should be procecuted, plead guilty, and pay a fine which will come out of the revenue.

[awayatc]

Yes, I saw a member of the local gun club on the news saying the same thing about one of the latest shooters too. Who'd have thought eh?

That shooter apparently also had a dick......
as did Molenaar...and most other lunatics
It is therefor safe to conclude that people with dicks are likely to go on shooting rampages....

So to remove yourself from the list of possible gunslinging mentaly deranged prospects I suggest you hand in your dick........
without balls they are only half the fun anyway.......

[ManDownUnder]

Right guns don't kill people, people kill people so hey they must be safe.

Nooo... gun are dangerous. Who said they're safe?

They're a force multiplier... just like anything else that we humans can use to inflict damage on others. That doesn't mean we shoudl outlaw 'em all though. Ban... cranes? Planes, Cars? Bikes? Guns? Crowbars? Big bits of wood, sharp bits of wood? Small fast bits of wood? Stones?

And as with many in the shooting fraternity I'm all for reasonable control of them. My limits differ from others in the shooting world, just like your limits on bike use/ownership differ from other. No biggy.

I think it's simply prudent to recognise there are some idiots that will use firearms in a manner that's against the accepted public good and they need to have their access to firearms cut off. How that's done is a matter for debate - and I enjoy it - it's a goodie.

Stick yer troll back under the bridge

[jono035]

Yes I see that.
I did look up mass killing via swinging a rope froma motorcycle, but it appears that is not a weapon of choice to nutters. Go figure, I was so sure you were onto something there.

126 deaths and 122 wounded in the past 10 years. That list covers the US, Germany, Canada, Argentina, Bosnia, Sweden, Yemen, Scotland, Finland, totalling over 500 million people.

That is 13 deaths per year in that population or 1 death in every 40million people per year in that population.

These are tragedies to be sure, but I do not believe banning guns would have stopped these tragedies from occurring. These are disturbed, isolated individuals who wanted to go out in a spotlight and take a few people who had hurt them with them. There are many ways of doing this too numerous to mention. Assuming that removing their access to guns would turn them into normal, well adjusted members of society is completely ludicrous.

Your kid is probably more likely to be killed by drinking drain-cleaner from under the sink. Lets ban drain cleaner?

[ManDownUnder]

Yes I see that.
I did look up mass killing via swinging a rope froma motorcycle, but it appears that is not a weapon of choice to nutters.

Look up robbery, drug peddling, assault, disorder, protectionism... "Motorcycle and gang" out to do it...

[jono035]

Look up robbery, drug peddling, assault, disorder, protectionism... "Motorcycle and gang" out to do it...

Damn, I was about to apply for a patent on it

I wonder how many of those 'high school shootings' which have become the latest fad would have been high school arsons, or bombings, or poisonings, or gassings, or knifings, or ... uhhh... arrowings(?!) if the person didn't have access to a firearm?

Don't blame the tool, blame the workman. Or in this case, the parents of the kids who were too distracted to see that their kid was so isolated, alone and depressed that they would resort to this kind of behaviour. Not to mention a pretty huge proportion of those kids shouldn't have had access to weapons anyway. That's why gun racks are a legal requirement in NZ and why I have a gun safe. (6mm hardened steel walls, 6mm door, couldn't get into it without destroying the guns, couldn't get it out without destroying the house.

[The Stranger:Me]

Nooo... gun are dangerous. Who said they're safe?

They're a force multiplier... just like anything else that we humans can use to inflict damage on others. That doesn't mean we shoudl outlaw 'em all though. Ban... cranes? Planes, Cars? Bikes? Guns? Crowbars? Big bits of wood, sharp bits of wood? Small fast bits of wood? Stones?

And as with many in the shooting fraternity I'm all for reasonable control of them. My limits differ from others in the shooting world, just like your limits on bike use/ownership differ from other. No biggy.

I think it's simply prudent to recognise there are some idiots that will use firearms in a manner that's against the accepted public good and they need to have their access to firearms cut off. How that's done is a matter for debate - and I enjoy it - it's a goodie.

Stick yer troll back under the bridge

So why draw the line at guns then MDU. As you note they are a force multiplier. Why does one need that much extra force? If there is not a need why have it? There is a need for transport, stones and lumps of wood. Ok, if you need for example a semi auto assault rifle fine demonstrate a clear need, but posession for the sake of compensation is not a need. If need is not a requirement, why stop at guns, why not allow hand grenades for example? Honestly I would be in for a decent gatling gun, could be a fuck load of fun so why not?

Troll? Me? Come on. That said the merest thought of dads army here loosing their cuddle rugs does bring with it a certain amount entertainment however I must admit.

[wbks]

We should probably ban knifes, dudes. They, like rifles, can be used to gather food and use as tools, but can also be picked by nutters to go kill people. EXACTLY like the stranger prescribed. We should probably ban blunt objects, also. So that rules out knifes and anything from a tireiron to a hockey stick
Yes, comparing a nuke to a rifle is fair enough, I mean can't we AAALLLL see the legitimacy in the argument?

[The Stranger:Me]

We should probably ban knifes, dudes. They, like rifles, can be used to gather food and use as tools, but can also be picked by nutters to go kill people. EXACTLY like the stranger prescribed. We should probably ban blunt objects, also. So that rules out knifes and anything from a tireiron to a hockey stick

Why do you gun nutters always go over the top and want to ban everything.
That is just plain stupid.

[wbks]

I don't even own a gun. What? Knifes can be used as tools, but nearly always are used to harm someone else when a nutter has got one.

[jono035]

You shouldn't have to demonstrate why a right is required, you should have to demonstrate why that right should be curtailed. How is a semi-automatic 'assault rifle' any different from a similarly chambered hunting rifle? Semi automatic hunting rifles are very useful for pest control and hunting for sport/food, as well as for certain types of target shooting. Given that you say you don't need a semi-automatic 'assault rifle', then isn't that just a quibble over how the firearm looks? If you want to band firearms because of the way they look, then I think your actual motives differ from your claimed motives.

If you don't like firearms then that is fine, just don't try and tell me what I can or cannot do.