Law change - Daytime headlights and ban on handheld devices

**peasea** · 16th August 2009, 12:38

Originally Posted by T.G.W

Looking even at this media report, it does look that way eh?
Might check on it further, just to make triple sure

If you could, that'd be helpful for all. Cheers

**Slyer** · 16th August 2009, 14:38

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=111897770
Bit too far? :P

**twotyred** · 16th August 2009, 17:01

more motorcycle laws made by non motorcyclists,putting the blame on riders,why legislate when 90% of riders already use their headlights?

After an accident the offending cage will now say "he didn't have his headlight on'" and it will be a legitimate reason why they didn't see you and the onus will be on you to prove you did.

At least running the HID during the day may not be so targeted now...

so much for National not being nanny state governing...

**MSTRS:Me** · 16th August 2009, 17:04

Originally Posted by twotyred

so much for National not being nanny state governing...

I don't think it is helpful to rail about this or that party in these sort of cases. The numpties at NZTA are the ones to blame.

**skidMark** · 16th August 2009, 17:14

Originally Posted by twotyred

more motorcycle laws made by non motorcyclists,putting the blame on riders,why legislate when 90% of riders already use their headlights?

After an accident the offending cage will now say "he didn't have his headlight on'" and it will be a legitimate reason why they didn't see you and the onus will be on you to prove you did.

At least running the HID during the day may not be so targeted now...

so much for National not being nanny state governing...

Because the reaity is they are doing it to keep us safe, then people like you get all upset... because yu think its just another thing to conform to, i think it is a VERY wise move.... one that wil save lives.

And what do you mean regarding the HID lights, why would it be "targeted", you need to elaborate on reasons why it was targeted etc, or it is an incomplete post

**James Deuce** · 16th August 2009, 18:54

Originally Posted by skidMark

Because the reaity is they are doing it to keep us safe, then people like you get all upset... because yu think its just another thing to conform to, i think it is a VERY wise move.... one that wil save lives.

No it won't. It will make not a blind bit of difference. Most new motorcycles are bereft of a light switch and the accident rate for motorcycles is going up.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; I've never had an accident with my headlight turned off, even at night. All my accidents on the road have included a lit headlight on the bike I've been riding.

**Markw336** · 16th August 2009, 20:01

well just your lights on full beam lol soon everyone will complain then they will take that law away

**peasea** · 16th August 2009, 21:00

Originally Posted by James Deuce

No it won't. It will make not a blind bit of difference. Most new motorcycles are bereft of a light switch and the accident rate for motorcycles is going up.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; I've never had an accident with my headlight turned off, even at night. All my accidents on the road have included a lit headlight on the bike I've been riding.

And I had an accident with no lid on my bonce that resulted in no brain injuries. I'm no sillier now than when I was at my siliest, blahlalahoomtang!

**peasea** · 16th August 2009, 21:01

Originally Posted by James Deuce

No it won't. It will make not a blind bit of difference. Most new motorcycles are bereft of a light switch and the accident rate for motorcycles is going up.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; I've never had an accident with my headlight turned off, even at night. All my accidents on the road have included a lit headlight on the bike I've been riding.

You must crash a lot.

**peasea** · 16th August 2009, 21:06

Originally Posted by twotyred

more motorcycle laws made by non motorcyclists,putting the blame on riders...

Mate, it gets better!

I wrote a submission for a car-related regulation change a while back and discovered that out of the four (or was it five?) people making the change only one actually drove!

How many bureaucrats do you think ride motorcycles? I'd guess FUCK ALL!

It's about time a biker made their way to the Beehive.

**skidMark** · 17th August 2009, 08:04

Originally Posted by James Deuce

No it won't. It will make not a blind bit of difference. Most new motorcycles are bereft of a light switch and the accident rate for motorcycles is going up.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; I've never had an accident with my headlight turned off, even at night. All my accidents on the road have included a lit headlight on the bike I've been riding.

Well i think it helps, when i ride with my headight n owbeam during the day everybdy puls out infront of yu i ride with high beams during the day and the problem goes away, you are trying t get the light in thier eyes ie high beam... noot light the rad on low beam, high beam isnt blinding during the day, but it does the job

**Usarka** · 17th August 2009, 08:23

Originally Posted by peasea

I thought (forgive me if I'm wrong) that to use the cell phone for an emergency while driving was exempt. Shouldn't the *555 system only be used for emergencies, like getting drunks and other twats off the road asap?
If that's the case, no problem.

The message has always been: if it's an emergency use 111.

**MSTRS:Me** · 17th August 2009, 10:44

I've just been having a bit of a cleanup of old emails and I came across a couple I sent to TVOne Closeup in response to the segment/s about car headlight use.

Dear sirs

I have been following this issue with much interest, and not a little trepidation. I have my own ideas about what is 'wrong' on our roads, but will elaborate on headlight use only.

Obviously, being seen is highly desireable, but what motorcyclists would seem to experience is that 'other motorists' are not looking. For that reason it has long been a recommendation (not law) that motorcycles have their headlights on at all times. There is little in the way of research to prove that lights-on makes a huge difference for motorcycles, because we are still so often not seen. Being small (non-threatening?) and difficult to gauge in terms of proximity, approach and speed are huge factors in accidents stats. But at least our headlights go some way towards helping to make us stand out better.

It is the call for car headlights on that worries me. Because that will remove the one point of difference that motorcyclists have.
Yes, motorcyclists make up only 2% of the vehicle fleet, but we have the same rights to be on the roads as anyone...it is what we can do to decrease our vulnerability that is being threatened here.

Last year NZTA asked for submissions on the subject of Motorcycle headlights being made compulsory. The below was mine...

Whilst I agree with the intent behind having headlight on, obviously only a motorcyclist can know whether this makes any difference. Having ridden motorcycles for some 35 years, it is my observation that to make any difference to being visible, the headlight must be on high beam. With the poor statistics of car drivers not seeing motorcyclists, and the often poor headlights on motorcycles (particularly older models), then I suggest that if fulltime use of headlights is to be made compulsory, then daytime use of the highbeam is the only realistic measure.

Perhaps then, if cars go lights-on at all times, then to keep the point of difference, motorcycles must go hi-beam-on at all times?

The blue text was my submission to NZTA last Sept when m/c lights-on was being mooted. CloseUp was airing the proposal for cars to be legally bound to lights-on. I followed it up with

After emailing you last week on the subject of headlights-on as it is likely to impact (pun intended) on motorcyclists, and with your second follow-up screened (roadside with the cop) it has become quite obvious that not only are motorcyclists not seen on our roads, but that we are not seen or heard anywhere else either. So that cop thinks that if one life can be saved by daytime use of car headlights, it would be worth it. Really? How many more motorcyclists will die as a result of being invisible in a sea of headlights?

Perhaps someone was listening? So cars are left out of the equation. At least for the moment. I still don't think that compelling lights-on for m/cs will make a difference.
Eternal vigilance is our lot, eh?

**Atlas** · 17th August 2009, 11:27

sadly the media is only focused on the cell phone side of the legislation which will be enough to push through ill thought out changes re bike headlights.

As has been said many times: for 90% of riders with hard wired lights or modern alternators running with lights high beam/fog or whatever... running lights isnt an issue, but for an old bike or scooter that has lights that are 6 volt or relate to engine speed we dont have any benefit of high beam. I recall doing a 12 hour endurance trial on my BSA where my passenger took a dolphin torch, it helped!
I did a run recently where from time to time I checked my headlight and it stayed intact and going, I was impressed.

This law wont stop me riding, but my lights have never been reliable and are largely for WOF compliance. So I may be getting some tickets in future I can do without.

But arent all bikers criminals anyway?

**Genestho** · 17th August 2009, 11:33

Originally Posted by Atlas

sadly the media is only focused on the cell phone side of the legislation which will be enough to push through ill thought out changes re bike headlights.

As has been said many times: for 90% of riders with hard wired lights or modern alternators running with lights high beam/fog or whatever... running lights isnt an issue, but for an old bike or scooter that has lights that are 6 volt or relate to engine speed we dont have any benefit of high beam. I recall doing a 12 hour endurance trial on my BSA where my passenger took a dolphin torch, it helped!
I did a run recently where from time to time I checked my headlight and it stayed intact and going, I was impressed.

This law wont stop me riding, but my lights have never been reliable and are largely for WOF compliance. So I may be getting some tickets in future I can do without.

But arent all bikers criminals anyway?

Probably should have been some sort of heads up so people could've made submissions back last year from the Classics scene. No reason why anyone couldn't send a press release out there now, but I have a feeling it might not change anything. I fear it's too late - BUT, I have been known to be wrong before!
EDIT: Never too late!