Cheeky salesman

[Insanity_rules]

I can't say I've ever had poor treatment from any dealer in Wellington. Major credit to TSS, Wellington Motorcycles and Motomart all for really good experiences. Had good deals from all three and really good service.

[Dave-]

Where do you work Dave- ??

briscoes, riccarton.

[ynot slow]

Yes, I have owned my own company, Part of which was a retail outlet. I have sourced the stock, marketed the stock, and sold the stock. As well as looking after the overall business.

Yes, I have dumped stock at cost and below cost, Though the wheres and whys wouldn't have been passed along to a mere salesperson.

I don't work in retail any more because its a boring job and quite frankly I have more interesting things to do.

If you must know I have my finger in 2 other companies, One of which has retail as a secondary income source.

Don't kid yourself, I have read your dribble, There is nothing you could tell me that is worth a damn, Go back to thinking how your customers are cunts.

Understand ya there.Have done numerous stocktakes and the amount held is mindboggling.I know of furniture shops with wholesale value $100-150 grand in flooring stock,from 2mtr carpet remnants to 35mtr rolls,and furniture stock of $300 grand.Sure the margins seem great(better than 10-20% bike shops work on?)but when a sale is held to rid stock it is not unknown to sell at wholesale less 20% to rid the item,do this a few times at sale time and the boss' choice of buy wasn't shit hot lol.But then buying stock for your customers is hit and miss,some stuff I've thought wtf and sells next day we stock it,other stuff takes 3-4 months,other 12-18months.Then the good finance companies say if you offer I/F terms it will cost you 5-14% off the top,or reduced price uf on sale.

[The Stranger:Me]

actually, it's more about him asking me what I would be willing to offer for the bike THEN telling me he didn't actually have it any more. don't get me wrong, these guys have to make a living too and I am more than happy to help with that.

So he was sounding out the colour of your money, so he could recommend something that fit your budget. What's the problem again?

[ynot slow]

Best thing is go to an Indian shop owner and ask for a discount when buying plums or peaches,as I said to one guy,I can't eat them so why pay for it.He saw the funny side as I was in a butchers shop when an Indian wanted a discount on chops as he couldn't eat the bones,only the meat.The butcher wasn't sure if he was serious or joking at the time.

[Big Dave]

Big Dave, that makes you a rarity!

Yeah - I'm not exactly on the bones of me bum student either.

Maybe that has meant that the trade in price wasn't the sharpest I could have got by a few hundy here and there. But if my bike breaks down getting a loaner is a breeze and they gimme a bit more than my RAT discount without asking. And somewhere to hang if I'm bored and want to annoy Patrick.

[wysper]

it's the salesmans job to find say 3 or 4 bikes he has that he thinks based upon his interpretations of your answers would be good for you, this is where the skill comes in, there's more to selling than just answers, obviously im going to be cautious about selling a super bike to a geriatric, although the skill comes in recognising whether he can operate one (because you never know, he might be)

Fair enough.
What about the client that goes in pretty much knowing exactly what he/she wants. Bike X. Now it is about the dollars. All the salesman needs to do is make the numbers work. How much should the client be expected to pay for the salesman's expertise then?

Usually by the time I actually make it to the shop I am pretty sure I know exactly what I want. I have done my homework, research, asked people I know and trust what they think. Now I am off to buy the bike. About the only service the bike shop is doing for me prior to purchase is offering a test ride.

Everything else is dollars - whats my trade worth, how much is the change over etc.

The payoff for the shop is often later and hard to quantify. If I have been treated well, I buy the bike and am back for accessories, servicing, customising and I will refer people to the shop. If I am treated poorly, my money goes elsewhere and so do my recommendations.

[Headbanger]

The payoff for the shop is often later and hard to quantify.

Funny enough my brother and father were so impressed with the service from Pete when my brother bought his last bike that now any time making a purchase gets discussed the old boy brings out his standard order to talk to Wellington Motorcycles first.

I told the old boy I know that guy through Kiwibiker, I upset him all the time......

[MarkH]

it's even worse when some cunt expects you to sell them the product at cost, what a fucking insult, if im not going to get paid for this sale then im not going to bother selling to you, the next customer might be more willing to recognise skill and be willing to pay for it.

I am confused - I have read this entire thread and wonder where this idea that someone would expect the seller to sell at cost comes from? I am pretty sure that no one here has suggesting any such thing.

I have bought products on sale - am I a cunt for doing that or is it OK to pay less if the seller offers first?

I have asked if a seller could do a better price - with answers of yes in some cases and no in others. When told no I have sometimes bought anyway because after confirming that I was already being offered the best price I decided that it was a fair price. If a seller gets all uppity and takes my low offer as an insult then fine - I can always buy elsewhere. If a seller listens to my offer and rejects it, followed by making me a counter offer then I am happy to listen to his counter offer and either accept or reject it.

so if you right off the bat ask him for a deal you're pretty much saying "im not going to pay you for your knowledge of the bike, your recommendation as a good bike for me, infact I'm going to charge you for it"

I am not to sure how any customer could charge the salesman for his knowledge, but I will say this: for me personally - I'm not going to pay you for your knowledge of the bike, your recommendation as a good bike for me or anything like that! I go into a bike shop to buy a bike and the salesman is there to sell me one. I have done my research before entering the shop and have decided what I want to buy and I am prepared to pay what it is worth, that isn't necessarily the sticker price of course. I don't 'expect' a deal, but I will ask if they will give me one. I may visit the competition and see what kind of deal they will give and if they will offer me a better deal than you then you can miss out on a sale - why should I pay you more for the same product?

I have gone into a bike shop to buy a tyre - I didn't haggle over the price and I asked their service dept when they could fit it. They were too busy to do the job anytime in the next couple of weeks. I went to another shop and asked about the same tyre, they offered me a better deal and fitted it a couple of days later. The better shop has since had more business from me, the other shop that was too busy to look after me obviously doesn't need my business. I will even pay more for better service if I decide it is worth it - that doesn't mean I will pay full sticker price for a new bike though.

[Densial]

You are either joking or you seriously believe they have margin in the bike that exceeds 20%, which I very seriously would doubt.

well it's a place to start isn't it? Don't get me wrong, I'm more than willing to haggle, I just don't want to haggle for something that's not there.

[Densial]

The bastard... he knew you wanted a bike, knew what type you were after, established your budget and tried to provide a solution???



Cheeky... No!
Problematic? No!
Taking some initiative... Yes
Offering a possible alternative to meet your needs and limitation? Yes
Doing his job? Yes
Outsmarting you? Yes

Build a bridge, or does the last point still hurt a little?

I'm way over it, stress will kill you y'know, wooo saaa, wooo saaa. Moved on, might even head over that way this weekend if I don't get something else first (TM rocks!).

All I'm sayin is if the dude didn't have the bike anymore (and more power to him for sell'n it) at least let me know. Like I said way back if he'd said "bike is sold, how about I do you a good deal on a later model" I woulda felt less like he was try'n to "outsmart?" me and more like he was try'n to help me get a the bike I might want. Still, each to their own, different strokes n'all, I am more than sure that his sales techniques get him more than enough sales and many people are quite happy with his way. Not be'n smart arse or nothing, I'm just say'n it's not me.

If I (personally me, just my way) ask about a bike then THAT IS THE BIKE I AM INTERESTED IN. I'm not necessarily interested in be'n sold something else that he has happens to have in stock just because he no longer has what I want.

[Swoop]

*Looks around for pitchfork and torch*

Borrow one of mine. I always carry a spare!
*Never know whaen a good mob is going to be passing you by, so always be prepared!*

[Densial]

personally when im selling anything I cant stand it when people EXPECT some sort of deal, so for you to ask him for a good deal because "it was new afterall!" is wankish at best.

Actually, I dissagree, sorta. I agree that you should not necessarily EXPECT some sort of deal, but historically I should be able to ask for a good deal just because "it was new afterall!" The reason is simple.

New motorcycles can be gotten anywhere, if I look at a bike at your shop and like it I can get exactly the same bike at another dealer, you have (from purely the bikes point of view) exactly no point of difference from your competitor. Yes I know, "value add", "after sales service", "loyalty" and all that, sure, but from the point of purely buying the bike, you have nothing. If I buy it down the road it is exactly the same bike.

Used is different, you want that one, with those k's, in that condition, you got no choice, it's that bike or a different bike.

But new? different game. You want me to buy from you, your only differentiator (from purely the bikes point of view) is price. Simple.

[vifferman]

You want me to buy from you, your only differentiator (from purely the bikes point of view) is price. Simple.

I disagree.
The price for new bikes includes a very small margin, so there's little room to move on it, except where it's new old stock, and the wholesaler is running a special clearance runout price, like they did with FahrtSturms and Blackbirds.
But the wholesaler's still the same for all Honda dealers, so there's very little difference. What it comes down to then is the dealer, and what attitude they have. If they're mercenary, and treat you like a wallet with legs, and don't give a shit about you or customer service, and aren't good at pretending they do care, then I'd go elsewhere, even if the price is marginally higher elsewhere.
How's that old aphorism go? "The bitter taste of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten"
That holds true for low quality customer service too.

If I buy a new (or newish) machine, I want it to be from a dealer who at least makes an effort to appear to look after me. For most people, a bike is (in the final analysis) not much more than an expensive toy. Good relations with your dealer is part of the whole experience that makes owning that toy more fun. I enjoyed owning my VFR for all of a couple of days before the bitter taste of an arrogant and mercenary attitude from the dealer spoiled it.
It's just a pity I wasn't more circumspect. While I couldn't have bought this particular bike elsewhere, I can and have spent thousands of dollars elsewhere since then, on parts, consumables, bike gear, servicing. I've got some very good deals, and some excellent customer service.

[Dodgy]

This mystifies me a little, and it seems to show in part that bargining is not really part of Kiwi culture

Other cultures embrace bargining (for example when I was in Egypt) but it seems here that at times the practice is viewed dimply, as if it is dishonest?

I never used to feel comfortable with negotiation, then I got into sales and now sell multi million dollar solutions. At that level the game can take months of negotiation and I do not take it personally, we come in high, the customer wants it lower or more value attached and so the game begins. Where we end up has to be mutually beneficial, otherwise the deal will not go ahead.

Would it not be the same with buying a bike? Ask for free servicing for two years, dealer says one year. Ask for a helmet and jacket at cost... Who knows... play the game