Weekend Warriors

[jono035]

One would go on the training days for the same reason that firefighters train.... to improve skills in a safe environment before having to apply them in a real situation.

I think the point that is being made is that these training days don't train what some people (myself included) think is the biggest part of your on-road safety, i.e. your attitude, self control, cautiousness, situational awareness etc.

[750duc]

I think the point that is being made is that these training days don't train what some people (myself included) think is the biggest part of your on-road safety, i.e. your attitude, self control, cautiousness, situational awareness etc.

Once you are confident in your ability to handle your machine you can spend more time concentrating on the factors you speak of. In my opinion learning any new skills that help keep me alive on the road are time and money well spent.

[dpex]

If you show me yours i'll...... (prolly pounce on it) God what happened to the innocence i once had ??/

I refuse to bring a shovel as well as my coal burner !!! So you'll just have to make it all the way round !!! Yeah thought i'd have a crack at it too !!!

Side note ::; ya need three stamps in ya log book to street race ! Will we see ya at round one of PMCC on the 1st nov too ?

I've got the three stamps Chuppiho.

Yeah. I reckon the cemetery race would be cool. I'll elect to go in the 50CC class so I can beat'm up.:--))

[dpex]

I think the point that is being made is that these training days don't train what some people (myself included) think is the biggest part of your on-road safety, i.e. your attitude, self control, cautiousness, situational awareness etc.

Jono! What's up there as one of the biggest dangers? Surely, it's doing a corner too hot and then freaking when you realise...or perhaps better...believe you're too hot.

You have too natural reactions to this scenario. a) you front-brake and stand the bike up and simply worsen the problem, or, b) you remember that braking in a corner while cause huge shit so you choose to go wide rather than lay the bike down on account of you have no idea how far you can lay the bike down.

The Puke track is a bit like the Coro-loop (the great favourite of so many red misteds)

The idea being that when you do an ART day, and both follow and get led by a very capable line marshal, you get to learn that both you and your bike can do a hell of a lot more than you perhaps would have thought possible.

I remember following one line marshal, quite some time ago, and simply refused to accept he could get away from me....notwithstanding, we had been around and around for many circuits... When I came back to the pits I discovered I'd rubbed some alloy off the bloody crankcase, and still old Zimmer had stood up.

Later, I hung old Zimmer from the garage roof then let her lay over till the crank-case touch the floor. I as utterly amazed. I couldn't see how a bike could keep going forward at such an incredibly deep angle of lean. Yet, she did, and I learned.

This was way deeper cornering than I had ever thought possible.

And so the ART days are there for a learn...if you go there to learn.

Sure, you can go there to simply blast around, but to what point?

[The Stranger:Me]

Jono! What's up there as one of the biggest dangers? Surely, it's doing a corner too hot and then freaking when you realise...or perhaps better...believe you're too hot.

So now with your increased knowledge and confidence you up the pace in the corners - why not, you know the bike is way more capable than you used to think it was. This time, instead of thinking you're too hot, you really are too hot.
How does this help you now?

[The Stranger:Me]

Later, I hung old Zimmer from the garage roof then let her lay over till the crank-case touch the floor. I as utterly amazed. I couldn't see how a bike could keep going forward at such an incredibly deep angle of lean. Yet, she did, and I learned.

So how did you allow for 100kg or more of weight on the suspension?

[jono035]

Jono! What's up there as one of the biggest dangers? Surely, it's doing a corner too hot and then freaking when you realise...or perhaps better...believe you're too hot.

To me, that comes under the heading of self control and knowing your abilities!

I'm not saying that track days are useless, far from it. I really do think that the skills that they teach, however, take a back seat to simply learning to avoiding and mitigate the situations in which you will need them.

I agree with what The Stranger said, if you have the skills to go faster in the corners, you will go faster in the corners and then when you come across something out of your control (gravel, unseen pothole, cow crap etc.) the situation is going to be much worse.

Obviously this is a topic that 10 different people will have 12 different ideas though and it is always interesting hearing other perspectives...

[p.dath]

...
I'm not saying that track days are useless, far from it. I really do think that the skills that they teach, however, take a back seat to simply learning to avoiding and mitigate the situations in which you will need them.

Sure you can avoid and mitigate a lot of situations that would put you in danger, but you can't do it for all of them. Plain and simple, that's how accidents happen.

I agree with what The Stranger said, if you have the skills to go faster in the corners, you will go faster in the corners and then when you come across something out of your control (gravel, unseen pothole, cow crap etc.) the situation is going to be much worse.
...

I definitely take corners much faster than before doing extra training at track days and the like.
I also feel that if I saw an "issue" during a corner that I would stand a pretty good chance of steering around it now. Prior to the extra training I would have had trouble varying off the line I was taking. Now I can do that easily.

[Ixion]

When they hold a track day on a race track with blind corners, gravel on said corners, ditto potholes, bumps and tree roots. And opposing traffic, white lines painted on the track oil spills here and there, intersections, and farmers driving tractors onto the tracks; then I'll sign up for track days (actually, if there was such a track it would be invaluable, and I really would be keen). Oh and moss . And dead possums. And roadside doggies keen on a nice game of chasing things. And a herd of cows, plese. All of which I encountered in one afternoon's ride last weekend


Until then , as far as I can see "track days" (a shallow euphemism for "race days"), merely teach how fast one can go in ideal controlled conditions. Inevitably, the rider who has spent the day belting round a race track flat out , is going to approach a corner on the road on his way home with a "Oh, that's easy , I've just been going round corners that sharp at warp speed, whee here we go". Then realise to his horror that THIS corner has a pothole right on his line, an SUV coming toward him, and gravel along the road edge. And because he's riding to race track conditions he now has no extra left in reserve. Nowhere to go, no reserve cornering capacity (because, on a race track , you will ALWAYS be cornering at ,maximum capacity). Toast. And another statistic.

The race track is the race track, no matter how euphemistically named. And the road is the road. Confusing the two is not a good thing IMHO.

I also feel that if I saw an "issue" during a corner that I would stand a pretty good chance of steering around it now. Prior to the extra training I would have had trouble varying off the line I was taking. Now I can do that easily.

Except that you don't have any reserve traction for steering around. Because , following racing practice, you committed all of it when you went into the corner.

[p.dath]

...
Except that you don't have any reserve traction for steering around. Because , following racing practice, you committed all of it when you went into the corner.

What possibly would make you think because I have been to an advanced rider training day on a track I am now riding every corner on the road to the maximum of my abilities? It would scare me far too much to even contemplate doing that.

I don't ride anywhere near the limits of my bike on the road. I know from being on the track, where I have greatly extended my own limits, that I feel pretty comfortable with my skills on the road. Riding on the road following extra training is nearly always easier and smoother for me.

I'm 100% confident that my likelihood of becoming a statistic has been greatly reduced by attending additional advanced rider training - not increased.

[sinfull]

but to what point?

Give it up ! come race me cause i've slowed down heaps !!! !

[SARGE]

WOW.. where to start??...


i guess you could pigeonhole me as a "weekend Warrior" now .. maybe a "once or twice a month warrior" now .. but i used to commute every day on Spooky ( and incidentally. i have been on some form of 2-wheeled transport since 1970-ish)

i have a company vehicle now ( truck) and long hours and family commitments stop me from riding as often as i want to but i dont consider myself ANY type of Born Again Warrior.. and yes . .i put 8-10 hours in traffic every day .. but a 6T truck is nothing like a 200 kg bike btw)


i have ridden through axle deep snow, black ice, Hurricane Andrew, 110F Arizona heat, Los Angeles traffic and mossy NZ back-roads.

i have drag raced a Vmax, (2 years) been in top gear around Daytona International Speedway (3x) and gapped the fuzz on a US Midwest interstate highway (lost count)

i have hit a deer, spun out on a roadkill raccoon and bounced off the back of a truck (most of the above in very little if any bubblewrap, including a helmet.. and everything since 1983 with no depth perception due to the fact that im missing an eye)


but i only ride my bikes a couple times a month now so you MUST be a better rider than i am ...

i'll get off your roads now ... im sorry

[jono035]

WOW.. where to start??...

That's a hell of a laundry list there, mate.

[James Deuce]

WOW.. where to start??...


i guess you could pigeonhole me as a "weekend Warrior" now .. maybe a "once or twice a month warrior" now .. but i used to commute every day on Spooky ( and incidentally. i have been on some form of 2-wheeled transport since 1970-ish)

i have a company vehicle now ( truck) and long hours and family commitments stop me from riding as often as i want to but i dont consider myself ANY type of Born Again Warrior.. and yes . .i put 8-10 hours in traffic every day .. but a 6T truck is nothing like a 200 kg bike btw)


i have ridden through axle deep snow, black ice, Hurricane Andrew, 110F Arizona heat, Los Angeles traffic and mossy NZ back-roads.

i have drag raced a Vmax, (2 years) been in top gear around Daytona International Speedway (3x) and gapped the fuzz on a US Midwest interstate highway (lost count)

i have hit a deer, spun out on a roadkill raccoon and bounced off the back of a truck (most of the above in very little if any bubblewrap, including a helmet.. and everything since 1983 with no depth perception due to the fact that im missing an eye)


but i only ride my bikes a couple times a month now so you MUST be a better rider than i am ...

i'll get off your roads now ... im sorry

I nearly said something like that, but I didn't want to look like a girl.

[Madness]

When they hold a track day on a race track with blind corners, gravel on said corners, ditto potholes, bumps and tree roots. And opposing traffic, white lines painted on the track oil spills here and there, intersections, and farmers driving tractors onto the tracks, Oh and moss And dead possums. And roadside doggies keen on a nice game of chasing things. And a herd of cows.

You forgot the "Traffic Safety" enforcement officer with a laser gun, a ticket book and three days of quota to catch up on. Bloody dangerous things they are too!