IMPORTANT - Submission To The Government

[Grahameeboy]

UK..yes it is for the roads, however, I reckon that ACC levy is a good investment


Motorcycle (with or without a sidecar) (TC17)

Engine size (cc)	12 months rate	6 months rate
Not over 150	£15.00	Not applicable
151-400	£33.00	Not applicable
401-600	£48.00	Not applicable
Over 600	£66.00	£36.30

[Katman]

Rego costs are already through the roof...

You're precisely the sort of rider whose rego should double in price.

[Cr1MiNaL]

You're precisely the sort of rider whose rego should double in price.

Your probably right. because I'm young and living life to the max eh? I'm prolly stupid/Gen Y/ Immature/ etc too

[Usarka]

Why isn't there an initiative for pushbike riders and pedestrians to wear fluoro protective gear?

[cowpatz]

There are a couple of points that need to be more closely scrutinized.

1. The document is titled safer journeys. How will increasing an ACC levy make the journey safer? Even if the levy were to double would that have a significant impact on the number of motorcyclists? The levy is just cost recovery and therefore in my view does not contribute to a "safer journey" and should not be an initiative.

2. From 2000 to 2008 the number of bike registrations increased by a factor of 4 . The number of casualties increased by a factor of 2. This is actually a significant reduction in rider/casualty ratio from 2000 to 2008.

What is needed is data showing the distribution of casualties per age group versus the number of riders within each group. I know that licence/age stats are available but that is somewhat meaningless.

The number of over 40 rider casualties does appear to be over represented but if they comprise the bulk of the riding community then it is what would statistically be expected based on probability.

[MarkH]

If you can afford 2 bikes.......

.....that cost less than half as much for both as some spend on one Harley or Ducati.....

[James Deuce]

Your probably right. because I'm young and living life to the max eh? I'm prolly stupid/Gen Y/ Immature/ etc too

Well you do happily drop other people in the shit without owning up, so I'd say that was a big fat yes.

[Squiggles]

Well you do happily drop other people in the shit without owning up, so I'd say that was a big fat yes.

I resent being grouped with him

[James Deuce]

I resent being grouped with him

Don't worry, you're not. You could eat my children with some fava beans and a nice chianti, and you STILL wouldn't be lumped in with him.

[Grahameeboy]

.....that cost less than half as much for both as some spend on one Harley or Ducati.....

You still have 2 bikes........or am I missing something....

[MarkH]

You still have 2 bikes........or am I missing something....

Well, I wish I had two bikes - but why should I pay more in ACC levies on my rego if I have 2 bikes than someone that has 1 bike. Suppose I have 2 bikes and someone else has 1 with the value of his 1 equal to my 2 and both of us doing the same kms.

2 bikes = 2 regos = fair enough
but
2 bikes = 2 ACC levies = not fair!

If I won Lotto I would probably have 5 bikes (at least) but then the ACC levy could be shrugged off much easier. Someone that has a weekday commuter + weekend ride + family car/van/whatever would be paying a lot more than their fair share of ACC levies! A wealthy person with one expensive car has more money, spent more on vehicles and pays less in ACC levies.

It seems that they don't really care if it isn't fair, they aren't interested in being fair - they just go with whatever is easiest to administer.

[FROSTY:Me]

Can I ask you guys. Has anybody actually listeed to what the Minister of transport has to say ?
I know full well what politico's have to say is usually shite but he does genuinely have public safety at heart.
Re the ABS thing I suspect all it would take is someone to point out to him that a lot of bikes don't actually come out with ABS brakes for him to reconcider.
He made a wonderfull comment that actually has me thinking--Hey he might have a few clues. To paint a picture the interviewer kept baiting him into saying that YOUNG drivers were a big issue.His reaction was to say NO its INEXPERIENCED drivers regardless of age that are the issue
I just love it -- a MOT with some bloody brains

[Usarka]

His reaction was to say NO its INEXPERIENCED drivers regardless of age that are the issue

A lot of experienced drivers drive pissed.

I'd say it's stupid drivers that are the issue.....

[Ixion]

The BAS thing is only bikes over 600cc and only from 2015 (ie new bikes first registered after 2015. It's not retrospective) . There are ABS models available now for a lot of >600cc bikes, just we don't see them because the demand isn't there. I suspect by 2015 most big bikes will have ABS available.

Whether that will make much difference to the injury rate is another matter

Arguably ABS would be more useful on smaller bikes. But that ain't going to happen

[p.dath]

...
1. The document is titled safer journeys. How will increasing an ACC levy make the journey safer?

We don't want to increase the ACC levy. The problem is there is a large deficit building ($1.5b) - an overdraft if you like. The country has to pay it back.

2. From 2000 to 2008 the number of bike registrations increased by a factor of 4 . The number of casualties increased by a factor of 2. This is actually a significant reduction in rider/casualty ratio from 2000 to 2008.
...
The number of over 40 rider casualties does appear to be over represented but if they comprise the bulk of the riding community then it is what would statistically be expected based on probability.

Devils Advocate. Do we really want such a fine grained billing system so as to target people ring down to their age? Such a system could be very expensive to administer, and can you imagine the hoops you would have to start jumping through to renew your registration. No more just specifying the bike and paying the bill. Now you will be proving your age, fronting up in person with birth certificates and the like.


Now if you tell me that private "ACC" cover was bought back, then I would be very keen. The private sector will naturlally do what is best to maximise profit (and hence costs). Those that are "less expensive" (aka, less risk) individuals will go to cheaper providers that will accept them.
Those that can't will have to stick with ACC - but with only higher risk candidates ACC would cost a lot more.

Of course, this doesn't help the sector who ride without a rego, licence, etc and make no direct contribution to ACC.

Someone did make some mention to adding an ACC level to petrol. I'm still mulling that over, but I think it has some merit - until electric or non-petrol bikes start becoming the normal thanks to a market distortion caused by an added "tax".

Oh the conundrum. There is no perfect system. Just a matter of choosing a system that meets most of our needs, and leaving it alone (otherwise we risk stuffing it up by trying to make it perfect).