The Group Ride Guide Announcement

[_STAIN_]

So you say the govt may form policy based on my work? I'm flattered.
I never thought the govt gave a rats arse about my opinions.
But I see you do. Thank you.

Listen up John, my next publication includes raising the road toll target to 500. Let's stop all this silly safer journeys stuff and implement that for me now will you. There's a good boy.

I feel you may need to finger read this, it is a "by default document" and now in place could be used against those who chose to ignore "The Guidelines"
"I believe we now need to nurture it and protect ourselves and it from being corrupted into something that can be used against us, either as individuals or a group"

Who is John ?

You are a Mentor ? Do you put yourself forward "in good light" ?

Stange, you clearly do not know me or my experience to speak on this subject.

[Katman]

But it's an interesting thought.

What of the possibility of someone trying to pin someone for a mishap on a KB Social Club a ride? Would that someone expect that a KB Social Club Ride organised on KB should adhere to KB guidelines?

[The Stranger:Me]

But it's an interesting thought.

What of the possibility of someone trying to pin someone for a mishap on a KB Social Club a ride? Would that someone expect that a KB Social Club Ride organised on KB should adhere to KB guidelines?

Perhaps they could expect that if KB had group ride guidelines.
If they did I would imagine that they would be set out or referenced somewhere in the site rules perhaps.
But of course that would be up to Spank or MT if they wanted that.

[Mental Trousers]

Yes Noel, I asked the question because I dont think it was talked over in the forum? Social groups being a part of this website n' all. Your five points made are very valid. I dont organise rides through a social group. I am now a firm beleiver that, I would rather ride my day with people who I know personally and smaller groups.

The Guide is in no way binding to anybody, anywhere. Anyone is free to read it and ignore if they wish. Including people who don't have a user account on kiwibiker.

yes, you are under the KB umbrella and using their communication network so you are obliged to use their documented guidelines to safety, for members.
What Caseye says in Post 88 is true
"In my humble opinion" Though "The Ride Guide" is not a KB sanctioned/approved document, it is nevertheless a written how too and would become by default what any investigation would refer to in assessing blame or culpability.

Nobody is obliged to do anything. The laws are quite clear that OSH etc have no place in a social get together such as a group of people going for a ride. What you're talking about requires law changes that take years to put through so are purely hypothetical and extremely unlikely to happen. Unless someone votes Labour back in again. Then it's very unlikely.

Perhaps they could expect that if KB had group ride guidelines.
If they did I would imagine that they would be set out or referenced somewhere in the site rules perhaps.
But of course that would be up to Spank or MT if they wanted that.

... and that won't ever happen.

As said many times in the past, Kiwibiker is not a club nor any other form of organisation, incorporated body blah blah. It is a website open to anyone with a focus on motorbike stuff in NZ.

[_STAIN_]

Nobody is obliged to do anything. The laws are quite clear that OSH etc have no place in a social get together such as a group of people going for a ride. What you're talking about requires law changes that take years to put through so are purely hypothetical and extremely unlikely to happen. Unless someone votes Labour back in again. Then it's very unlikely.

I am quite aware OSH does not normally come into play with social or sport activities. What I and belive Caseye also is saying, is the perspective taken by a court of law or coroner enquiry where there is a published "Ride Guidelines" for the group (KB) user activities.

Cheers for turning my lights back on.

[The Stranger:Me]

What I and belive Caseye also is saying, is the perspective taken by a court of law or coroner enquiry where there is a published "Ride Guidelines" for the group (KB) user activities.

Cheers for turning my lights back on.

There are NO published "Ride Guidelines" for the group (KB) user activities.

The "group" in the title refers to "group rides" as in a group of individuals out for a ride (any individuals anywhere any time) not KB as a group.
I would have thought that was fairly unambiguous, but perhaps I need to insert a definition for group ride?

[caseye]

I am quite aware OSH does not normally come into play with social or sport activities. What I and belive Caseye also is saying, is the perspective taken by a court of law or coroner enquiry where there is a published "Ride Guidelines" for the group (KB) user activities.

Cheers for turning my lights back on.

In reply and for clarification I've actually stated that this(the ride guide) is Not a KB Document.

"In my humble opinion" Though "The Ride Guide" is not a KB sanctioned/approved document, it is nevertheless a written how too and would become by default what any investigation would refer to in assessing blame or culpability.

It was published on KB by a KB'er,after consultation with many like minded individuals in order to provide as many other like minded people as possible with something to refer too.
KB's forums are here for all to use and post on.As I did when saying we, (KB'ers and I should have said any other motorcycle riding individuals) who have access to these forums now have a guide that we should nurture and protect ,that it is not corruped and used against us.
My intention in outlining what an investigative body what do with the guide was not to associate it with KB but to show how the guides existance would provide THEM literally with a guide.
I still believe the guide is good common sense and that it's existance is a credit to all of those involved in bringing it together for the benefit of all other motorcyclists.

[Transalper]

This thread seems to be stuck in an endless loop.

[Warr]

This thread seems to be stuck in an endless loop.

Would be better if the author had the ability to edit / delete & close the thread

[The Stranger:Me]

This thread seems to be stuck in an endless loop.

Well yes it does sir.
There is an issue here however.

If there is ANY liability arising from The Group Ride Guide (which I sincerely doubt there will be) I do not want that falling on KB, Spankme or MT.

I will not allow people to think the guide is in some way officailly KB sanctioned.
I will do everything I can to ensure people are clear on this point, no matter how difficult it is for them to grasp.

[Katman]

I have been a whole-hearted supporter of the Group Ride Guide from the outset and continue to be so.

It's those outside of KB though, who may well attempt to find a scapegoat, that the site needs to ensure it's protected from.

[Mental Trousers]

Any attempt to hold KB accountable because of something a member posts on the forums is running in the exact opposite direction of the established precedents. Those precedents concern ISP's/web hosts etc who provide a space for customers to do what they want, including running forums for posting material like a guide. Those organisations can not be held accountable if someone posts a howto for making nuclear bombs. It's the exact same principle here.

[aff-man]

Round and round the merry go round...

I may be showing my age but I remember a time when someone posted they were going for a ride and whoever turned up turned up.

since then the "group ride" fiasco has been warped from a shits and giggles blat to what would now be classified as sanctioned events with all the hand holding and stress involved.
I can't even imagine the ramifications of trying to organise another "waikato rally" (some of you fella's would remember that one)

Not that this is a bad thing it does give people a basic understanding of their own responsibilities but it is also formalising any ride advertised on this site, whether that be the intended purpose or not.

I may not be the most experienced rider out there and hell could be mistaken for 18 but I have had my fare share of rides, from when they are fantastic to when the go wrong. I think less and less people are going to be inclined to put anything relating to weekend fun up on the site for fear of not only "legal issues" but also because they could get shit from the community itself for "not following the guide".

And so we go full circle from going on rides with a mate who knows a mate who knows a mate, to going with randoms from the site and meeting new people and such, back to just riding with those you know...

Dunno if his is the right place for this and mods do with it what you will but knowing some of the brain trust and the result this sort of document could produce thought i'd say something.

[Katman]

I think less and less people are going to be inclined to put anything relating to weekend fun up on the site for fear of not only "legal issues" but also because they could get shit from the community itself for "not following the guide".

Maybe that's not such a bad thing.

[FJRider]

If on any group ride anywhere in NZ, organised by anyone in NZ, and a person ... or persons, that injure ... or endanger ... or damage, any other person/property in the course of that ride. Can be prosecuted under existing laws of this country.

To think that the person that posted on KB that they are going for a ride on a particular day, and would those wanting to ride with them ... meet up at ... could in any way, be held responsible for any dickhead behaviour (or results of such) of any person doing that ride.... is totally ludicrous.