Race Licence "exam"

[Shorty_925]

Good point ol son
Maybee day licences only issued to people with expired race licences?

And for the people that want to try racing without purchasing a complete licence or the expense of a full licence, the day licence is the best option to get into motorcycling, on-road or off-road.

[paigeo]

Having been an innocent party in a serious accident I too would welcome some sort of training. Maybe not a test but a mentor program. Someone to point out what to do and when. Some sort of probation period where the competitor must stay near the rear of the field to be observed before getting into the thick of things.
Looking back most of the our sports VERY serious accidents could have been prevented with a little education.

[oyster]

Good on ya Frosty for recognising we have a need to improve safety, especially to our newcomers. I'm not sure a "test" is really the way, it's really just a hollow form of policing. And training wins hands down over policing any day. What's really needed is a good manual with a focus on safety.
Typically, someone would come into the sport thus. Through heresay promotion, club website, posters etc they might contact a racer or the club. The club then refers them to a "Club Captain" who, in advance offers via phone e-mail or personal contact gives them a run down on the safety matters and procedures for meeting, their first. A mail out gives them a one page flyer to study up on basic safety for new comers. At their first meeting they are met and supervised throughout by this club person. Sign in, riders breif etc etc to ensure all is explained. Bike, gear check etc as well. Then at the first meeting no racing, just training sessions under close supervision. Once they, and their mentor /guide feel confident they progress to a flag start race. Sometimes this might take several race meetings. With vest on and starting off the back they get underway, continuing their coaching questions and guidance. At this point they are getting to know people and the club mentor introduces them to potential "buddy" relationships where they feel comfortable over a longer period of time that they have help and advice always close at hand.
Add to all this good riders breifings, complete with a BIG sign showing all the flags and their meanings. And finally, we really do need the FULL safety manual, which is a guidebook for everyone, fast or slow, new or experienced to learn from.

[oyster]

Great timing PAIGEO! I was writing my post as yours was going up so when I went back, yep, we're on exactly the same track.

People in Canterbury would understand pretty quicklty what I'm on about, for quite a few years now we've made a big effort to handle our "new inductions" with the very best in bringing them into the sport safely. Time has shown the basic principle of education and training at the start puts them on a good platform to progress from. And the more you get the "regulars" to give a little of their time and experience to new ones, they reflect on the new sense of satisfaction they get also. Then these wheels start to turn automatically.
Winning in all ways......

[FROSTY:Me]

And for the people that want to try racing without purchasing a complete licence or the expense of a full licence, the day licence is the best option to get into motorcycling, on-road or off-road.

Hey dude I'm hearing ya and the very LAST thing I want to do is to discourage ANYONE from dipping their toe in the road racing waters so to speak.
The flip side being its pretty darn nuts paying a bit of money and being allowed out on track on a (for example) gsxr1000 with apsolutely NO flag,safe passing etc knowledge as per the current system. I can 100% assure you this has happened and recently.
I'm NOT commenting in any way on the OFFROAD world I don't know enough to make an educated comment.

Having been an innocent party in a serious accident I too would welcome some sort of training. Maybe not a test but a mentor program. Someone to point out what to do and when. Some sort of probation period where the competitor must stay near the rear of the field to be observed before getting into the thick of things.
Looking back most of the our sports VERY serious accidents could have been prevented with a little education.

I'd argue that this is EXACTLY the point the clubmans class was origonally created to cater to -so Yes if you havent raced before you should be in orange vest back of the clubmans grid for one meeting.

Good on ya Frosty for recognising we have a need to improve safety, especially to our newcomers. I'm not sure a "test" is really the way, it's really just a hollow form of policing. And training wins hands down over policing any day. What's really needed is a good manual with a focus on safety.
Typically, someone would come into the sport thus. Through heresay promotion, club website, posters etc they might contact a racer or the club. The club then refers them to a "Club Captain" who, in advance offers via phone e-mail or personal contact gives them a run down on the safety matters and procedures for meeting, their first. A mail out gives them a one page flyer to study up on basic safety for new comers. At their first meeting they are met and supervised throughout by this club person. Sign in, riders breif etc etc to ensure all is explained. Bike, gear check etc as well. Then at the first meeting no racing, just training sessions under close supervision. Once they, and their mentor /guide feel confident they progress to a flag start race. Sometimes this might take several race meetings. With vest on and starting off the back they get underway, continuing their coaching questions and guidance. At this point they are getting to know people and the club mentor introduces them to potential "buddy" relationships where they feel comfortable over a longer period of time that they have help and advice always close at hand.
Add to all this good riders breifings, complete with a BIG sign showing all the flags and their meanings. And finally, we really do need the FULL safety manual, which is a guidebook for everyone, fast or slow, new or experienced to learn from.

Mate I agree with what you are saying in principle as you well know
But as I commented above it might actually DIScourage new racers rather than ENCOURAGE. Im thinking to keep it to the basics you NEED to know. Where Yes knowing what the waved red/yellow flag is important -knowing the RED, BLACK,and YELLOW flags are apsolutely vital.
Thats not to say you aren't bang on right just getting that level of training for ALL new racers might prove difficult

I threw the idea up in this very forum to run a BASIC race training trackday.
The idea was to run through a few starts,cover off the flags,cover off passing rules. run some mock "races" etc.
This was aimed specifically at trackdayers that might want to try racing

[paigeo]

If any rules are made in regarding this matter then we do need to be carefull. Some sort of training come educating is needed but we cant put off new blood getting into this sport. New participants need to have fun first time on the track otherwise they wont come back. Likewise if they have to jump hurdles just to get out there.

[Kickaha]

When I raced Karts they had about 3 grades of licence but a beginner always started in clubmans, once they wanted to move up they asked the steward for a "observation" which meant they did a brief test on the flags and had to get something like 7/10 right, there racing was observed by the steward for the day and if they felt it was satisfactory they got a c grade licence which meant they could compete in other classes at a club level

same process for a "B" but you has to get 8/10 and then you could compete in Island level competion, then an "A" for National level and 9/10 or 10/10 right on the questions which from memory was focused totally on the flags

Not really relevant for bikes but once you went from sprint racing to long track you had to go through the same process again although it was possible to skip a grade if they thought you were up to it

With Motorcycles unless a day licence holder has previously competed or has an expired licence they shouldn't be running in anything but clubmans

[scracha]

Making it any harder would turn more newbies off racing. Plenty of people turn up to non MNZ trackdays and off road trail rides which speaks volumes for what people want/want to do.

Trackdays generally have rules (i.e. no undertaking) and safety procedures. Ride like a dick and you're sent packing. What people want to do isn't particularly relevant.....I want to fly planes but nobody is stupid enough to let me without having first proven I can handle one.

I can't comment on off-road stuff but does a trail ride involve racing?. Regardless, I dare say there are some 'rules' and general etiquette that has to be followed.

Re practical assessment. I'm not advocating making road racing "harder", just "safer". I'd envisage there being at least 2 or 3 "endorsed" riders at most track-days who could follow a trackdayer who "wants to try out racing" around the track and sign their license to say they rode competently THAT DAY. Get two trackdays signed off by two different "endorsed" riders, you can go racing. Nobody who's capable of racing to any degree should find the test difficult. Nobody should really be racing without having first done at least a couple of trackdays. I just dont want to share the track with some goldwing rider who fancies himself piloting a 1000cc sportsbike around the track and does stupid stuff like not looking before coming out of pit-lane or who does 2 laps at walking pace when their bike has problems. The assessment should even prove "fun" and "useful".

"endorsed"...I dunno what the criterion for that could be....perhaps someone who's raced in the appropriate or "bigger" class a minimum of 10 times over the previous 2 years ?

Annual MNZ license, tick the correct boxes on the webbysite test or printed app form.

Day licenses......compulsory 10 minute briefing in a separate pit and perhaps a scratchy test.


MNZ license could be categorised into the different disciplines. You wouldn't want muggins here turning up to a top MX meeting and causing carnage at the first corner.


I don't have any problem wearing a day-glow bib for the first few races in a new class.

[jellywrestler]

forgive my ingnorance I'm not up with the play, is there one MNZ licence these days or do you need a different licence to race farm bikes as opposed to road racing etc?

[Shorty_925]

forgive my ingnorance I'm not up with the play, is there one MNZ licence these days or do you need a different licence to race farm bikes as opposed to road racing etc?

1 Licence to cover all forms if that is purchased or a club licence which you can only take part in events run by that club. So you could go from Trials to road racing etc

[Shorty_925]

MNZ license could be categorised into the different disciplines.

Suggest youd be opening a can of worms with that one. Smaller disciplines would probably splinter and get cheaper insurance else where. Trials comes to mind. Bugger all get injured in that sport compared to most other disciplines in a year.

[SWERVE]

I totally agree with you oyster with the principle being safety and the 'buddy system"
But we must not put all the blame on newbies for not knowing or adhering to the rules etc. There are a lot of much more experienced riders who dont know(or chose not to know) about flags etc. While some of the blame obviously needs to lay with the individuals in question the club also has to "get it right too"
Why does MNZ or clubs not produce a simple single sheet for flags which all riders can pin up in their workshop or van etc for quick easy reference or reminder..much easier than finding it in rule book.
Also a whiteboard at briefings with track map and POSTION of flag points on track.......alot of people new and old couldn,t tell you where they are.

Having raced in the Uk and attended many meetings and trackdays i have to say the way riders briefings and the "make it up on the day" way in which meetings are run is a worry sometimes.
Both at MCC and at Vic club meetings WHY does the person giving the breifing not have a microphone or at least a hand-held loud hailer battling with weather/wind and at ruapuna /aircraft usually make the a large part of the briefing unaudible. (Oh and lets not forget the starting of bikes during this and people who attend ,but only to talk to the person next to them) Its just as important for pit crew/helpers toattend & understand the days procedure (not revving bikes) and "talkers' should be jumped on.
A good system that a UK track day company that i used to help out at was to either hold briefing in a room with one exit or to tape of an area with only one exit............at the exit stood a girl (pretty ones work best) who handed out a small laminated/coloured card to everyone as they left......this card went in the gap between screen & fairing (or visible position at front) for the first session as you rode thru track entry SLOWLY! same person would pick them off your machine........ no card= not attended briefing= no racing till you went and got breifing and card to prove. NO EXCEPTIONS.
Im not having a go as i realise that all of the organisers/staff at our meetings work volenterally and without them none of us would race at all. But all it takes is a little bit of thought and organistaion which in time will be beneficial to ALL. I know the clubs are trying and it is improving and it is good beacause thanks to them this is a GROWING sport and the feilds just keep growing.
My $ worth.

[Bsym1]

Personnally it sounds like a good idea, as a someone who currently just races buckets but is looking to move toward clubmans, the idea of the track mentoring is especially appealling not just from an etiquitte and rules ooint of view but also from the perspective of learning a track which should make you a bit quicker and safer if you are not getting cut up by the front runners. Personnally I have had some good advice and help from Chris, Skunk, Fishy and the Wellington bucket guys which does help especially when starting to race in a pack for the first time, as someone coming up the inside can be a bit disconcerting initially.

If someone could post a link to the MNZ rule book especially around flags and track etiquitte would be good.

I looked at the road race rules and they require 3 recorded track events in a race log before you are eligible, maybe that could work well for track racing as well with the first three races in clubmans wearing the vest until deemed at a level to move into the main classes by the stewards. That woudl see racers being able to get signed off in a weekend and still get to go racing while qualifying for the higher grades.

[scott411]

its under conduct of competitors,

http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/down...mpetitions.pdf

its under 6-19

[Skunk]

While some of the blame obviously needs to lay with the individuals in question the club also has to "get it right too"
Why does MNZ or clubs not produce a simple single sheet for flags which all riders can pin up in their workshop or van etc for quick easy reference or reminder..much easier than finding it in rule book.
Also a whiteboard at briefings with track map and POSTION of flag points on track.......alot of people new and old couldn,t tell you where they are.

All riders sign a entry form that (among other things says you are confirming YOU HAVE READ AND UNDERSTOOD THE RULES. Now you want clubs to hand out reminder sheets? Why not photocopy it yourself when you do your regularly read of the rule book?

Vic Club gets the flaggies to hold out the yellow flag for the first lap of practice so riders can see where the flag points are. With the trouble some riders have reading a grid sheet I'm not sure if they could read a map. Surprisingly they still find their way to the track...

MNZ should start testing before they issue the licence in conjunction with with the Clubs. This has to be done by MNZ... Clubs don't control the licences.