Researcher criticises motorbike levy logic

[2wheeldrifter]

Thank Sanx

Thanks Mstrs

also just found some figures here... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...d.php?t=110119

[bogan]

This $12M they allegedly collect in fees is a fabrication. There is no way that figure takes into account ACC fees associated with salaries and registration of other vehicles. I believe the $12M is the money they recieve from motorcycle registration only.

also, I think there been some rises since then anyway, using current rates, and 2007-2008 registered bike numbere (couldnt find current but i assume its gonna be more) they should have collected 16mil. WTF.

http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/statistics/m.../docs/2008.pdf got data form there

[cheshirecat]

Apologies if this is a repost

But this article

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/new...ike-levy-logic

carries some useful data against the ACC and The Dishonorable Nick

Thanks,
I've just emailed for comments to every ACC email contact I can find

[Rhubarb]

Here are some figures I have copy and pasted from the Southern Rider site.

Car Occupants:
- 8525 active claims
- $208,305,000
- $24,434 per claim

Cyclists:
- 567 active claims
- $12,573,000
- $22,174 per claim

Pedestrians:
- 1115 active claims
- $24,494,000
- $21,967 per claim

Motorcyclists:
- 3173 active claims
- $62,523,000
- $19,704 per claim

We're cheaper !!

[James Deuce]

Fair enough - but if they are investing for profit where are our 'no claim bonuses' like other insurance companies?

Don't get me wrong, I'm with you. But I do think that ACC is one of the better run Government businesses. They just don't go the whole way.

Tie ACC to license instead of rego. Then NCBs are easy to do. No license, no cover. Annual license fee instead of annual rego. Multiple licenses, mulitple fees, however if you use it for work the specific license fee could be a claimable employer perk.

Fairer than current practice, but not as fair as adding a dollar a litre to fuel.

[dipshit]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/new...ike-levy-logic

At least this is presented better than... "waaa, it's all the car drivers fault!... waaaa, there should be better training for car drivers!"


Still, 60% car's fault and 40% rider's fault in multiple vehicle accidents for motorcyclists doesn't change the big picture that much.

[MSTRS:Me]

Don't get me wrong, I'm with you. But I do think that ACC is one of the better run Government businesses. They just don't go the whole way.

Tie ACC to license instead of rego. Then NCBs are easy to do. No license, no cover. Annual license fee instead of annual rego. Multiple licenses, mulitple fees, however if you use it for work the specific license fee could be a claimable employer perk.

Fairer than current practice, but not as fair as adding a dollar a litre to fuel.

Nope. Fee that pertains to the 'riskiest' class applies across the board.

[Rhubarb]

Tie ACC to license instead of rego. Then NCBs are easy to do. No license, no cover. Annual license fee instead of annual rego. Multiple licenses, mulitple fees, however if you use it for work the specific license fee could be a claimable employer perk.

Fairer than current practice, but not as fair as adding a dollar a litre to fuel.

Good thought.

What about purchasing ACC miles (similar to Road User Charges for diesels).

I am a fair weather weekend rider. Riders like me are on the road a lot less therefore the odds of us having an ACC claiming accident is also less.

The more you ride, the more you pay.

By the way James Deuce - good discussion, thanks

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

Despite all that, ACC have an average return of 8.7% over the last 5 years..

so they make a profit I want a no claims as well since it our money

[Ixion]

$12M? From which year? There are approx 130,000 mopeds/motorcycles regd...using a loose average of $150 ACC each, I come up with $19,500,000.
Of course, many of those machines will be 'on hold' outside of summer.

In 2008 there were 71648 LICENSED motorcycles (ie , rego actually paid up, not on hold) and 25304 mopeds ditto

The rate for a motorcycle was $204.66 (ACC levy component) then . That's $14.7 Million. I don't know the levy rate for mopeds then, but it was around $60. That's another $1.5 million or so. Total at least $17 million.

That's what MoT say they collected on behalf of ACC

Where's the missing five million dollars Mr Judge

[MSTRS:Me]

The figures for registered etc vary from one source to another. I actually used figures that you posted somewhere yesterday. I know the ACC content of a m/c is greater than that of a moped, which is why I take a stab at an average for the sake of simplicity. The end result basically shows the same thing...$12M does not fly.

[rok-the-boat]

Listen guys - there is no rule that says motorcycles have to pay their way in terms of ACC. Pedestrians don't have to. Cyclists don't have to. We should be 'looked after' for doing our bit to save fuel. The car drivers should pay more - and that is most of us too, myself included. Government should subsidise some of that, which is why we pay our taxes, our very high taxes. One day, down the road, we will be paying our way in hospital fees, road tolls, education, and then some bright spark will ask - what the hell are our taxes for!!! We are over taxed already.

[Coldrider]

Listen guys - there is no rule that says motorcycles have to pay their way in terms of ACC. Pedestrians don't have to. Cyclists don't have to. We should be 'looked after' for doing our bit to save fuel. The car drivers should pay more - and that is most of us too, myself included. Government should subsidise some as that, which is why we pay our taxes, our very high taxes. One day, down the road, we will be paying our way in hospital fees, road tolls, education, and then some bright spark will ask - what the hell are our for!!! We are over taxed already.

In NZ we get our health & acc coverage so cheap it is laughable.
In reality as Fred Dagg used to sing, 'we don't know how lucky we mate, we don't know how lucky we are'.

[bogan]

In 2008 there were 71648 LICENSED motorcycles (ie , rego actually paid up, not on hold) and 25304 mopeds ditto

The rate for a motorcycle was $204.66 (ACC levy component) then . That's $14.7 Million. I don't know the levy rate for mopeds then, but it was around $60. That's another $1.5 million or so. Total at least $17 million.

That's what MoT say they collected on behalf of ACC

Where's the missing five million dollars Mr Judge

I did similar calculation and got 16mil, older figures though. Perhaps a thread should be started to get to the bottom of this issue, it would certainly make them look bad if they are blatantly lying about figures, though it sounds like they are doing that about most of the other figures too.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

This $12M they allegedly collect in fees is a fabrication. There is no way that figure takes into account ACC fees associated with salaries and registration of other vehicles. I believe the $12M is the money they recieve from motorcycle registration only.

Correct...

Salary and wages PAYE also have to be added to that figure and as you said any other vehicle rego the Biker has... (can only ride/drive one at a time) Plus the ACC in fuel...

There is no way they can calculate how much a biker has put into ACC

They can only calculate from registrations which is only a fraction of the over all ACC we pay as a collective.



However our fundemental argument still lies on the "no fault system..." If they start charging any extra than any other road user then they are pointing fingers and it is no longer a "No Fault system"