Motorcyclists don't pay enough?

[Thaeos]

Nor does any other category. It's called the "Motor Vehicle Account" for a reason. You're trying to justify anyone who pays a levy of any kind should be permitted to engage in any other activity regardless of risk. That's like someone whose most dangerous activity is crochet paying the same premium as a trapeze artist without a safety net. Your position is ridiculous.

You're right, nor does any other category. But they are singling us out. And no I'm not ?? I'm just saying that we as a group pay alot more than what they claim we do, or appear to be claiming.

[kwaka_crasher]

The 'motorcyclists' category does not include everything the so-called 'motorcyclists' are actually paying.

It's claimed that $12.3M was collected in levies from motorcycle vehicle licensing. Are you saying that's wrong?

[Thaeos]

It's claimed that $12.3M was collected in levies from motorcycle vehicle licensing. Are you saying that's wrong?

Did I say that?? no.

(Actually others in other threads have pointed out it should be about 16 million or so)

What I did say is that people who are motorcyclists are paying far more towards ACC than just that from the motorcycle rego fee. That's all I've said and continued to say, so I don't know where you're coming from.

[kwaka_crasher]

What I did say is that people who are motorcyclists are paying far more towards ACC than just that from the motorcycle rego fee.

Yeah. Which equates to you don't want to pay the high levy for the high risk activity because you paid other levies unrelated to motorcycling, which is irrelevant because the other activities for which you are levied are done so according to THEIR risk. So...

You're trying to justify anyone who pays a levy of any kind should be permitted to engage in any other activity regardless of risk.

Without a levy being imposed that recognises that increased risk.

[Thaeos]

Yeah. Which equates to you don't want to pay the high levy for the high risk activity because you paid other levies unrelated to motorcycling, which is irrelevant because the other activities for which you are levied are done so according to THEIR risk. So...

You're trying to justify anyone who pays a levy of any kind should be permitted to engage in any other activity regardless of risk.

Without a levy being imposed that recognises that increased risk.

Mate you keep putting words in my mouth.

And the fact is that anyone IS permitted to engage in any other levied activity regardless of risk. Paying a rego fee is not a prerequisite to riding a motorcycle you don't own ... or driving a car you don't pay rego for ...

[Winston001]

It boils down to something like this:

Motorcyclists pay $12 million at the moment.

Motorcyclists cost $60 million in ACC costs.

The shortfall of $49 million is borne by other motorists. You'd need to own a stack of cars - and never use them - to make up that difference.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

It boils down to something like this:

Motorcyclists pay $12 million at the moment.
Motorcyclists cost $60 million in ACC costs.

The shortfall of $49 million is borne by other motorists. You'd need to own a stack of cars - and never use them - to make up that difference.

Againg wrong... they can not say how much motorcyclist pay into ACC... they have now way of calculating it... the 12mil is only from registration collection... You then pay ACC in your fuel as well as P.A.Y.E

From ACC website
Am I covered?

Everyone in New Zealand has 24-hour, seven-day-a-week, no-fault comprehensive injury cover through ACC.

Eligibility for injury cover for everyone in New Zealand

Everyone in New Zealand is eligible for comprehensive injury cover:

• no matter what you’re doing or where you are when you’re injured – driving, playing sport, at home, at work.

• no matter how the injury happened, even if you did something yourself to contribute to it.

• no matter what age you are or whether you’re working – you might be retired, a child, on a benefit or studying

Your PAYE ACC and you ACC from petrol and if you own a car the ACC from that rego has to calculated in to that equation before they can how much ACC you have paid. Your P.A.Y.E ACC covers you for any thing that you do as above no matter how stupid including sport cycling and driving and riding your motorcycle.

There will always seem to be a group that is proping up a minor group in a no faults system and we are all proping up the cyclists, and sports which combined out way the motorcyclist and cycling could be classed as a sport... BUT that is was you pay ACC in your PAYE and it also covers you for riding your motocycle or driving your car.

to tell the honest truth they need to drop the ACC on rego's and put ACC up on every ones PAYE if they want to keep a no faults system as it was orginally designed for.

[Fluffy Cat]

On the head. Thank you NighthawkNZ. The whole country... sorry tax.... no sorry. Acc levy payers should be paying more in contributions. This is anathema to the present govt.
All other methods become quite ridiculous, punitive and hard to enforce. Imagine trying to police cyclists and the costs of admin of any such scheme. What about mountain bikers that never venture onto a road. We would need special extra fit police to head out to the hills to find and bring to justice these obnoxious people. What if they had more than one bicycle we would surely have to levy them on each, as there mates might use one. Then these levy paying vehicles would need to be checked for safety. So some form of vin plate and wof would be needed.
Mountaineering, tramping, rugby you can go on.
Or in the UK you pay NI National Insurance its a tax everyone who earns pays. This makes the NHS the money it needs to run well almost. All MV users have to pay insurance. Now I am a pom i know about this many here think its cheaper. Bwwwaaahhhhhahahhhhh. Try getting an on line quote. I was paying 650GBP in 1992 for tp third party on a ZX10 at 24years of age. So it sort of works as a filter i guess.
Guess the point is we all need to pay more.....those that can pay that is.....

[kwaka_crasher]

Mate you keep putting words in my mouth.

Just trying to get to the bottom of your position since you seem incapable of explaining it.

And the fact is that anyone IS permitted to engage in any other levied activity regardless of risk. Paying a rego fee is not a prerequisite to riding a motorcycle you don't own ... or driving a car you don't pay rego for ...

The fact is that the risk is still levied. The risk in this case is the motorcycle on the road. The ACC levy component of the vehicle license is to cover that particulary risk.

[kwaka_crasher]

Again wrong... they can not say how much motorcyclist pay into ACC... they have now way of calculating it... the 12mil is only from registration collection... You then pay ACC in your fuel as well as P.A.Y.E

Earner and employer levies do not get used to fund motor vehicle crash costs, so that's irrelevant.

From ACC website
Am I covered?

Everyone in New Zealand has 24-hour, seven-day-a-week, no-fault comprehensive injury cover through ACC.

Eligibility for injury cover for everyone in New Zealand

Everyone in New Zealand is eligible for comprehensive injury cover:

• no matter what you’re doing or where you are when you’re injured – driving, playing sport, at home, at work.

• no matter how the injury happened, even if you did something yourself to contribute to it.

• no matter what age you are or whether you’re working – you might be retired, a child, on a benefit or studying

Yes, but all the costs of those different instances are levied and paid from the appropriate account. The money from the appropriate account is collected from levies specific to to that account (largely). The problem is the Motor Vehicle account. In the case of a pedestrian or cyclist being hit by a motor vehicle the cost is covered by the motor vehicle account and only the motor vehicle has been levied for road use.

Your PAYE ACC and you ACC from petrol and if you own a car the ACC from that rego has to calculated in to that equation before they can how much ACC you have paid. Your P.A.Y.E ACC covers you for any thing that you do as above no matter how stupid including sport cycling and driving and riding your motorcycle.

No. The motorcycle riding (on road) is not covered by the earner account levies which is where earner & employer premiums are paid to - it's covered by the motor vehicle account regardless of whether the motorcycle you're riding has had it's motor vehicle levy paid as part of the motor vehicle licence fee or not. That is to say, if you're riding a unlicenced motorcycle on the road and are involved in a crash, you're covered.

There will always seem to be a group that is proping up a minor group in a no faults system and we are all proping up the cyclists, and sports which combined out way the motorcyclist and cycling could be classed as a sport... BUT that is was you pay ACC in your PAYE and it also covers you for riding your motocycle or driving your car.

to tell the honest truth they need to drop the ACC on rego's and put ACC up on every ones PAYE if they want to keep a no faults system as it was orginally designed for.

That won't be no-fault (in your definition - "no-blame", not the ACC definition) because people who earn more will pay more thus subsidising those who pay less. To actually be no-fault (again, the colloqiual definition) everyone should pay the same amount, regardless of circumstance.

IMHO the entire concept of no-fault is flawed if you don't want one group subsidising another.