The motorcycle industry

[Ixion]

That's what is worrying me.

We have no idea what the position of the industry is on the actual levies (unless the MIAA statement can be considered to speak for the industry as a whole . I don't know if it can or not).

The "We will be making strong representations on behalf of motorcyclists and moped riders with an emphasis on taking positive measures to reduce moped and motorcycle accidents" could well mean

"We won't object to the levies, we will just argue that the government encourage "positive measures to reduce accidents" (whatever positive measures etc means) in the vague hope that fewer accidents some time in a nebulous future will turn into the levies becoming less extortionate in an equally nebulous future.

Does the industry oppose motorcycle ACC levies being set at the proposed levels?

I haven't seen anywhere a clear statement on that .

[Big Dave]

Would not a co-ordinated approach be preferable? Arguments consistent, information shared, resources pooled?

As far as I know the MIA represents the importers and the MTA represents the dealers.

I can probably address the MIA meeting. I don't see much point. They know what we know (the whole thing blows) and are doing what they can in the backroom to secure their businesses professionally.

[Big Dave]

>>Does the industry oppose motorcycle ACC levies being set at the proposed levels?

I haven't seen anywhere a clear statement on that .<<

Duly forwarded.

[Usarka]

I can well understand why members of the motorcycle industry don't communicate on here.

At times it can be like throwing one aussie passport into a boat full of indonesians.

[Big Dave]

Hmmmm. The footer on the MTA web?

http://www.mta.org.nz

I'm chasing comment by email now. Will advise.

[Big Dave]

Does the industry oppose motorcycle ACC levies being set at the proposed levels?

I haven't seen anywhere a clear statement on that .

From the MIA:

'We are definitely against the proposed ACC levy increases and I am currently preparing our submission.'

They will forward me a copy when complete.

[lakedaemonian]

I can well understand why members of the motorcycle industry don't communicate on here.

At times it can be like throwing one aussie passport into a boat full of indonesians.

Nice one!

From a single motorcycle dealer's perspective, while I really do see value in the KiwiBiker community in acting like a rather mongrel-ish Target/Fair Go for the motorcycle community, the atmosphere/culture here is often a rather steep uphill battle for dealers.

Obviously, some dealers like the good folks at Mt Eden appear to have successfully managed to navigate their way through Kiwibiker from my more usual lurking perspective....but they appear to be the exception rather than the rule.

I'm no expert on the culture here by any means and I don't think it would be reasonable to ask Kiwibiker to somehow change their culture to make it more dealer friendly......but would a "de-militarized zone" for dealers here have any value? An often shoot first, ask questions later environment is not conducive to participation in this dialogue.

In the past year we've managed to get the Christchurch motorcycles dealers just on Manchester Street working quite closely together at the local level for rider safety training and our Biketoberfest event where typically at the national level motorcycle dealers survive on a daily dose of cannibalistic and ruthlessly competitive infighting.

It's not to say cooperation doesn't exist within or between motorcycle shops or brands...there are a lot of strong relationships out there....but mostly one to one in my opinion. A problem is that often times competition WITHIN brands can often far exceed competition BETWEEN brands. Basically Joe Bloggs Brand ABC Motorcycles often has a more ruthless competitor in Crazy Pete's Brand ABC Motorcycles than the expected Kiwi Brand XYZ Motorcycles.

So, half joking, getting a bunch of NZ motorcycle dealers to agree that the sky is blue is an uphill and not always successful battle.

It took us the better part of a year to put on a single substantial event, and a handful of tiny ones. Making the change this year from dictatorship to a far more democratic committee has it's advantages(and was a large part of the success), but a disadvantage is the need to achieve majority consensus at minimum, but preferably unanimity...and this can take time....lots of time.

Building these bridges also took us a long time...to do so at a regional or national level would be quite time consuming and cumbersome if it were done from scratch beyond the existing, and in my opinion sometimes limited, trade organizations.

My post may come across as negative or pessimistic...I can assure you I'm not......I am an optomist at heart.....I just want to provide a glimpse of how I perceive the NZ motorcycle industry at times.

I kind of think the motorcycle industry and the motorcycle community in New Zealand is filled with a lot of generals and not enough soldiers.

Let me explain:

As a licensed firearms owner in New Zealand, and previously the United States, I was shocked to see the inability of the NZ sport shooting community to effectively counter recent changes to firearms policy and fail to counter the media hammering in the wake of a small number of recent firearms related incidents. With several entities offering to lead the lobbying battle even as a dedicated sport shooter I found the effort to appear divided and confusing.....there was no united voice that I heard....and the amateurish and easily manipulated spokespeople probably would have done better just keeping their mouths shut in the national media(in at least one case I saw, again...all in my opinion).

In the United States the National Rifle Association would have used it's incredibly powerful lobbying mechanism to leverage it's considerable political power and would probably have successfully countered it. One Unified Voice.....lots of people hate the NRA.....even as a strong advocate I find them a bit...much, but they are effective via means that does not include civil disobeience that can blow up in faces.....like the recent Greenpeace Palm kernal debacle(my opinion).

Taking aside the differences in culture, lobbying practices, etc......it's troubling to see that the NZ sport shooting community that far exceeds the NZ motorcycle community in terms of respective license numbers, has been impotent(in my opinion).....I see troubling parallels in our community:

Lots of folks who PASSIONATELY want to help

Lots of little leaders, some doing an excellent job, others well meaning....but to be honest some may not be putting our collective best foot forward

No United Voice...

Do we need to have a NZ Motorcycle version of something like the US National Rifle Association?

Just my opinion and perspective.......Just trying to share......industry opinion has been asked for, so I'm trying to share my personal perspective.

Thanks for the opportunity to share.

[k2w3]

They'll take my ACC levy OUT OF MY COLD DEAD HAND.

Does that have any parallels, laked?

[The Stranger:Me]

Nice one!

From a single motorcycle dealer's perspective, while I really do see value in the KiwiBiker community in acting like a rather mongrel-ish Target/Fair Go for the motorcycle community, the atmosphere/culture here is often a rather steep uphill battle for dealers.

Obviously, some dealers like the good folks at Mt Eden appear to have successfully managed to navigate their way through Kiwibiker from my more usual lurking perspective....but they appear to be the exception rather than the rule.

I'm no expert on the culture here by any means and I don't think it would be reasonable to ask Kiwibiker to somehow change their culture to make it more dealer friendly......but would a "de-militarized zone" for dealers here have any value? An often shoot first, ask questions later environment is not conducive to participation in this dialogue.

You are frequently at pains to make excuses about the atmosphere or culture around here.

Reality check we are your customers (well not me specifically) so how's about you get to understand the culture, what we want, our needs and our requirements etc. Who knows, in time it may just help you to stay in business.

You will find this is a pretty open and honest place. I'm in IT, I would give my left nut (figuritively) to have this type of feed back from my clients. People tend to NOT tell you how it is to your face. They will here.

Sure there may be witch hunts from time to time, but in my meagre experience the truth usually wins out in the end. This is an excellent process as it often lays to rest the nagging doubt that gave rise to the witch hunt in the first place instead of letting it fester.

Despite the like of Robert Taylor similarly bemoaning attitudes etc here too he sticks around and seems to do very nicely out of it all. Other dealers and various individual salesmen also do alright out of it.

[k2w3]

Most IT clients tend not to bother mentioning it after the umpteenth introduced endless loop, Stranger.

[lakedaemonian]

They'll take my ACC levy OUT OF MY COLD DEAD HAND.

Does that have any parallels, laked?

haha....

The NRA is a strange one......mostly loved or hated I reckon.....but regardless of where folks stand on the firearms ownership/enthusiast spectrum it's hard to dispute it's consistent effectiveness to look after it's constituent group.

They are an incredibly formidable political force.

[lakedaemonian]

You are frequently at pains to make excuses about the atmosphere or culture around here.

Not excuses.....it's my personal opinion, and speculation as to why there is no a larger industry/dealer presence here.

Reality check we are your customers (well not me specifically) so how's about you get to understand the culture, what we want, our needs and our requirements etc.

Why do you think I'm here? I spend a lot of time with my customers in the real world and we have made a big investment(for us) in focusing on this medium.

Who knows, in time it may just help you to stay in business.

Agreed! While we've been very fortunate we don't want to miss the opportunity to try and stay a step ahead of some of the rest.

You will find this is a pretty open and honest place. I'm in IT, I would give my left nut (figuritively) to have this type of feed back from my clients. People tend to NOT tell you how it is to your face. They will here.

I largely agree...and have been pleasantly surprised at the response received by much of the community in my limited exposure in the open so far. As I've stated before, we've been monitoring the forum for years.....and now hopefully we can engage a bit more......albeit carefully while getting a sense of things.

Sure there may be witch hunts from time to time, but in my meagre experience the truth usually wins out in the end. This is an excellent process as it often lays to rest the nagging doubt that gave rise to the witch hunt in the first place instead of letting it fester.

It has certainly been an exciting two days...a bit like real world drama.....condensed and accelerated

Despite the like of Robert Taylor similarly bemoaning attitudes etc here too he sticks around and seems to do very nicely out of it all. Other dealers and various individual salesmen also do alright out of it.

Yep....there are some dealers and dealer reps that have found an enviable place in the community here.

We'll keep on trying to do the same.