Man-made climate change is done for. Dead.

[Skyryder]

Not entirely its due to national (I expected better) labour, the greens, maori, ACT well all of the money hungry fuckers...........who is the sucker, me for sure as wellas the rest of my fellow New Zealanders......truly.

but it dont matter, the ETS has passed its second reading and will be law in no time, so we can expect there soon will be lower Carbon emissions in NZ soon and the temperatures of the planet and we will be saved......and if you and the other Pro plonkers believe that then you are naive and delusional.

but note this comment and dairy it for a year from now and tell me the advantage we have paid our money for, and again in two years....three and ten, I guarantee you the change will be ZERO, why of all the C02 emmisions only 1.9% of them come from man.

What you have embraced is the biggest scam of the modern world, congrats on that, and there is no I repeat no consensus on the science nor has their ever been so warm up your check books as you write away your hard earned cash to save the planet, cause we all know well that cash will change the climate.............or is the reality that the cash will be skimmed off by government sticky fingers and redistributed to other international agencies like the UN (we all know they are a winner of effectiveness)

so Diary note this and tell us of the changes in the atmosphere I think with you being so directly plugged into the stratosphere you will possibly be the first to know.

I think you are getting the ETS/Carbon trading etc. mixed up with AGW. While one 'is' linked to the other, politically, it does not necessarily equate that the belief in AGW requires the acceptance of Carbon trading.

I don't want to get into Key's ETS scheme as that is another issue but it's suffice to say that Key has never sucked me into believing in him. There is nothing silent about this man contrary to what many say. I heard his footsteps way way back. Some on here are beginning to hear him too.


Skyryder

[Quasievil]

I think you are getting the ETS/Carbon trading etc. mixed up with AGW. While one 'is' linked to the other, politically, it does not necessarily equate that the belief in AGW requires the acceptance of Carbon trading.

I don't want to get into Key's ETS scheme as that is another issue but it's suffice to say that Key has never sucked me into believing in him. There is nothing silent about this man contrary to what many say. I heard his footsteps way way back. Some on here are beginning to hear him too.


Skyryder

the ETS was built on the back of the AGW, AGW bullshit was manipulated to enable ETS.
ETS = tax
AGW = Scientific fraud

together they = us getting screwed

[vtec]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx3q2...eature=popular

A breakdown/explanation of some of the information.

[mashman]

More fuel for the fire?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8376009.stm

[Winston001]

....but it dont matter, the ETS has passed its second reading and will be law in no time, so we can expect there soon will be lower Carbon emissions in NZ soon and the temperatures of the planet and we will be saved......and if you and the other Pro plonkers believe that then you are naive and delusional.

So you don't accept that global pollution is a problem Quasi?? That's what the ETS etc is all about - an attempt to restrict the poisons we release into the environment.

In NZ we aren't really aware of the extent of global pollution. Have a google about Plumes, and the plastics accumulated in a vast section of the Pacific Ocean. Check out ocean acidification which is a direct chemical result of CO2 being absorbed by seawater.

Climate change is old news - all we can do is adjust, but we can at least stop poisoning the place.

[mashman]

all we can do is adjust, but we can at least stop poisoning the place.

Or ban money from the planet and evolve (like we have over millions of years)

[Skyryder]

Galileo could prove the earth 'revolved' around the sun but there were some who when faced with the truth still denied it. They simply did not understand what they saw.


History will place those that deny AGW in the same catorgory.


Skyryder

[Hans]

Galileo could prove the earth 'revolved' around the sun but there were some who when faced with the truth still denied it. They simply did not understand what they saw.


History will place those that deny AGW in the same catorgory.


Skyryder

Should I print this off and remind you in ten years' time?

[george formby]

Please elaborate.

Until recently, the global climate models haven't been run with an actual snapshot of atmosphere and ocean conditions as a starting point. A few attempts have been made at this recently (though it's difficult, as in numerical weather forecasting, to avoid "initialisation shock") but it's too early to say how well their predictions have turned out.

Science is still struggling to model weather patterns a few weeks ahead & on a scale less than 100km square on the day, climate change is a bit more complicated.
The Chinese gummint made it snow recently & shut a major city down.
The Kalahari desert has just been opened up to uranium prospectors, including the national parks. Massive open cast mines, huge processing factorys, rail lines to the ocean etc. All powered by a series of really big coal fired power stations Uranium for all the nice, environmentally aware people in Europe & America so they can have cheap, clean power for plug in cars. Hmmmm, methinks we are on a hiding to nothing.
First smell of summer today, on the bike, melting tar!

[Jantar]

So you don't accept that global pollution is a problem Quasi?? That's what the ETS etc is all about - an attempt to restrict the poisons we release into the environment.

In NZ we aren't really aware of the extent of global pollution. Have a google about Plumes, and the plastics accumulated in a vast section of the Pacific Ocean. Check out ocean acidification which is a direct chemical result of CO2 being absorbed by seawater.

Climate change is old news - all we can do is adjust, but we can at least stop poisoning the place.

The ETS has nothing at all to do with pollution. It is a tax on CO2 (or CO2 equivilent) only. There is no tax on any heavy metals, or chlorides or florides or nitrates etc. CO2 is a fertiliser, not a pollutant, so its a tax on growth. The ETS does not tax any pollutants at all.

If there was a pollution tax to help prevent some of the nastys (not you Nasty) from getting into the environment I would be a supporter. This is not it.

[Skyryder]

Should I print this off and remind you in ten years' time?

If ya want. But ten years is the past history is much longer..........like a generation.


Skyryder

[Winston001]

The ETS has nothing at all to do with pollution. It is a tax on CO2 (or CO2 equivilent) only. There is no tax on any heavy metals, or chlorides or florides or nitrates etc. CO2 is a fertiliser, not a pollutant, so its a tax on growth. The ETS does not tax any pollutants at all.

Not quite. Here are the gases covered by New Zealand's ETS:

* carbon dioxide (CO2 )
* methane (CH4 )
* nitrous oxide (N2O)
* hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs)
* perfluorocarbons (PFCs)
* sulphur hexafluoride (SF6 )

The purpose of taxing the output of these gases is to encourage alternative industrial processes which are less harmful to the environment.

In an ideal world we would also tax heavy metals and complex hydrocarbons to force the same substitution efforts. However our ability to measure this stuff is limited so the greenhouse gas approach is a simple catch-all to deal with pollution.

[Ixion]

Sulphur hexafluoride ?

That be NASTY shit? We got that ?

[Winston001]

Sulphur hexafluoride ?

That be NASTY shit? We got that ?

Hmmm now you mention it, that's a bit of a surprise. Can't imagine where it fits in - ACC staff toothpaste.....??

[SPman]

On a slightly different note. You know why I think this whole scam is coming to an end? The people are no longer believing this BS as much as they used to. Not because of their education in science and discerning critical minds.
The reason is much more prosaic. They should have waited another 10 years, before they called it "Global Warming". The weather has been shit, I actually think people are noticing the weather isn't doing what the puppet masters said it would over a number of years.

So if you don't believe something - it'll just "go away" As far as Australia is concerned, the weather is doing exactly what the "puppet masters" said it would do.
The ETS as being enacted IS a scam - no 2 ways about it! Climate change and excess pollution effects on the environment - it's happening, whether you believe it, or not. Burying heads in the sand and saying "bullshit, bullshit, bullshit", won't make it magically disappear. Natural and or helped by human pollution - who cares - I don't. If people use it as an excuse to clean up our act, then good - but - I don't see it happening. All its doing is making big time capitalists figure out more ways of making more money and screwing over the population to do it.
If the sea levels rise 2 m and the temp jumps 6C, then fucking good - it might clean most of the human pops. off the face of the planet!