The chance of a lifetime: You are asked to start a bike shop. How should it be done?

[T.W.R]

No... what we're saying applies to all businesses. I run a one man band business, it's just me. If I don't turn a profit month in month out, my family doesn't eat. That's not 'industrial scale.'

Same goes for Conquiztador's & Bogan's ideas. Do you really think either of those guys will go for it if they don't think they can make a profit? They aren't proposing to set up NZ Biker's Charity Stores, they're proposing businesses. Both of them have worked out a way to minimize their risk (i.e. not actually stocking parts), whilst still making a profit. If they do their sums right, it could work. But if they can't operate at a profit, all they'll be doing is giving away their own money (and/or the banks) to motorcycle owners.

I don't think and I'm sure either of them don't intend quiting their existing jobs to do this.....there isn't need to for either for it to be operational.

There a plenty of people with fledgling businesses as a secondary job some successful enough to consider becoming their primary form of income.

Do you actually know the failure rate for small business start ups? From memory I think it's about 90% within 3 years. Try googling it..

Due to lack of planning and the lack of management skill

I agree wholeheartedly. But if you track back to where this discussion over profit began, you'll see it had nothing to do with the guys' ideas, but with a post you made that knocked bike shops for making a profit. That's all. All small businesses, including your local bike shop and "Find-a-Bit"... have to make a trading profit to survive. Simple fact.

I'll knock bikeshops for making a profit at the expense of their clientele due to experience from both sides of the counter......and it wasn't aimed at the profit margin it was aimed at how some bikeshops go about making their profit. You should have read the particular posts more thoroughly

[Headbanger]

You have to write yourself a business plan - full of market research, real world examples, realistic trading projections, opportunity and risk assessments and supporting data - that's strong enough, realistic enough, and promising enough to convince a bank/investor.

Either that or you wing it.

Sweet

How many Civil Contracting businesses do you think are started by individuals from scratch. My guess is that most are started by existing organizations with years of relevant experience, excellent contacts, and contracts lined up and almost in the bag.

Historically mainly family businesses in NZ, Pick up any phone book and look at the company names. Though this is changing as many of the old timers are retiring and its generally their capabilities that carry the company.

And I know of a half dozen people that have started their own companies after working in the industry for a decade or two. A truck, an excavator, a shovel and you hit the ground stumbling.

Contracts lined up and almost in the bag?, That's pretty funny.

[Scorp]

I don't think and I'm sure either of them don't intend quiting their existing jobs to do this.....there isn't need to for either for it to be operational.

Which is irrelevant. If they can't run their sideline businesses at a profit, they will effectively be posting their own cash to other bikers along with the parts they've ordered. I think Conquistador and Bogan get that. Can't understand why you don't.

There a plenty of people with fledgling businesses as a secondary job some successful enough to consider becoming their primary form of income.

Only if they are profitable.

You seem to be missing my point. I'm not saying, "don't run a business." I am saying: "Don't run an unprofitable business."

It's really not that complicated a concept.

[Scorp]

And I know of a half dozen people that have started their own companies after working in the industry for a decade or two. A truck, an excavator, a shovel and you hit the ground running.

Pretty much what I figured. Experience + contacts + equipment + an inside track on a contract = you're in business. Profitable trading virtually from day one.

Again... please try to understand that I'm not against people going in to business for themselves. All I'm saying is that anyone who thinks they can wake up one morning and run a business without knowing how and when it's going to start making a trading profit is simply asking for a whole world of pain.

And on that note... I charge by the hour for my time, and this thread is beginning to take up too much of it... which is terribly unprofitable... so I'm going to have to give it a rest for a while.

[Headbanger]

Only if they are profitable.

You seem to be missing my point. I'm not saying, "don't run a business." I am saying: "Don't run an unprofitable business."

It's really not that complicated a concept.

I doubt many people would forge ahead with a plan if it didn't work on paper, But no matter how much effort is put into the guess work (forecast profits) The real would is always more harsh....and realistic. And its a fact of being in business that at times you may run at a loss, especially in your first few years.

[Ixion]

Do you actually know the failure rate for small business start ups? From memory I think it's about 90% within 3 years. Try googling it.

That figure is a bit misleading though. It includes small business that are wound up for reasons other than illiquidity or banruptcy.

What happens a lot, is that Bill Bloggs is working for wages or salary. And decides to set up on his own -as someone said, a truck and excavator and he's away' other industries, even less outlay

So , he does this for a few years, then, for whatever reaosn, moves back to working for someone else . Sometimes people move back and forth bewteen working for others and being self employed many times. There's not an absolute division between running your own business and working for someone else. Sometimes people even do both at once. Working for wages, maybe part time, and running a small business the rest of the week.

If you cannot show on paper that you can pay wages, pay rent, lease equipment, promote your brand, buy stock, pay insurance, sell your product... and turn in a trading profit, your idea has zero potential for success.

In the scenarios being predicated here, a lot of those aren't going to be big to start with. probably no rent (work from home - internet means you don't need bricks and mortar) , bugger all equipment, probably no brands (they're selling others' brands) no real insurance cost, no wages.

They could also be run in conjunction with a day job.

I'll throw out a thought of something I've seen done quite well - internet sales, but using webcam technology to enable to the buyer to talk with a live person, and view the actual goods. Not as good as being there in meatspace, but more personal than a webpage, and reassuring to many people. Investment is bugger all, and the technology is getting better all the time. Easy to do, web site has the usual pictures and text, plus a "talk to me real time" button. That way the seller can make a personalised saless pitch, ask questions, make suggestions etc.

Just a thought, the whole internet selling paradigm is starting to look really old and tired, it's been around since forever now, and it's overdue for a rev up. This is the 22nd century after all, we can't all keep on living in the past.

[Headbanger]

Pretty much what I figured. Experience + contacts + equipment + an inside track on a contract = you're in business. Profitable trading virtually from day one.

Sort of, You need the experience or your doomed.

Inside track on a contract?, well, yes and no.

It helps to be known in the industry if you want to be taken seriously, But you need many contracts to survive, each month is a make or break situation and everyone is cutting their own throats to lose the most money on each project.

The goal is to survive day 1......

[R-Soul]

I don't think and I'm sure either of them don't intend quiting their existing jobs to do this.....there isn't need to for either for it to be operational.

Not sure what you mean here- my understanding of "operational" is "in business" (i.e. trading).

How do you "start a business" without it being "operational"?

There a plenty of people with fledgling businesses as a secondary job some successful enough to consider becoming their primary form of income.

And if they are not making a profit, they aremaking a loss, so they will need to make more salary to compansate for their business's losses. Maybe they can get a second job to pay for the losses, but then when will they get tome to run their business? And the only way tht it can become their primary form of income, is if it is actually making a profit.

And if it is making nothing or a loss, why would they bother? Out of a misplaced desire to help fellow bikers and undercut bike shops? Nah....

[Headbanger]

I'll throw out a thought of something I've seen done quite well - internet sales, but using webcam technology to enable to the buyer to talk with a live person, and view the actual goods. Not as good as being there in meatspace, but more personal than a webpage, and reassuring to many people.

I was thinking about bringing this up the other day when "The Industry insiders" were throwing rocks at me for saying I expected a reply to an email within a working day. A couple of international retailers I have dealt with have exactly what you describe, real time communication, a real person waiting for your query. Works wonders, Instant info, and brings buyers right into the retail space without leaving home.


Saying don't email us, Ring us if its important just doesn't cut it.

[scott411]

I was thinking about bringing this up the other day when "The Industry insiders" were throwing rocks at me for saying I expected a reply to an email within a working day. A couple of international retailers I have dealt with have exactly what you describe, real time communication, a real person waiting for your query. Works wonders, Instant info, and brings buyers right into the retail space without leaving home.


Saying don't email us, Ring us if its important just doesn't cut it.

to be fair on the 'industry' as you put it i told Robert that it was unacceptable to expect more than a day reply to emails in retail type enviroments, in fact even a day is to long, i think an hour to 90 minutes is where I try to aim for.

what Ixion is saying with a webcam interface is a intersting idea, as even the US websites i deal with only seem to operate in there work hours, so interenational tyupe sales would require 24 hour staffing, almost impossible in NZ imo at the moment, but maybe on some of the biggest web based retailers around the world, although i wonder how long until the person would be photoshopped into someone more attractive than the person that was answering the question,

[Big Dave]

Skype at the workstation - we have a few proposals out to implement it now.

[R-Soul]

That figure is a bit misleading though. It includes small business that are wound up for reasons other than illiquidity or banruptcy.

What happens a lot, is that Bill Bloggs is working for wages or salary. And decides to set up on his own -as someone said, a truck and excavator and he's away' other industries, even less outlay

So , he does this for a few years, then, for whatever reaosn, moves back to working for someone else .

Yup because his buisiness is not making enough money to support his ambitions/requirements- it has therefore failed.

In the scenarios being predicated here, a lot of those aren't going to be big to start with. probably no rent (work from home - internet means you don't need bricks and mortar) , bugger all equipment, probably no brands (they're selling others' brands) no real insurance cost, no wages.

They could also be run in conjunction with a day job.

But you are paying in time, effort 9things that are limited resources) and for stock. You cant sell something you dont have (or something you cant get real quick). And if you can get it quick online, why cant your customers? Why would they go through a middle man?

I'll throw out a thought of something I've seen done quite well - internet sales, but using webcam technology to enable to the buyer to talk with a live person, and view the actual goods. Not as good as being there in meatspace, but more personal than a webpage, and reassuring to many people. Investment is bugger all, and the technology is getting better all the time. Easy to do, web site has the usual pictures and text, plus a "talk to me real time" button. That way the seller can make a personalised saless pitch, ask questions, make suggestions etc.

Just a thought, the whole internet selling paradigm is starting to look really old and tired, it's been around since forever now, and it's overdue for a rev up. This is the 22nd century after all, we can't all keep on living in the past.

Not a bad idea, although you take out the main differnetiator of the Net - automation, speed of processing and lack of salaries of salespersons (which is where cost savings come from mainly). A lot of companies do have telecentres (which is similar)

[Headbanger]

to be fair on the 'industry' as you put it i told Robert that it was unacceptable to expect more than a day reply to emails in retail type enviroments, in fact even a day is to long, i think an hour to 90 minutes is where I try to aim for.

what Ixion is saying with a webcam interface is a intersting idea, as even the US websites i deal with only seem to operate in there work hours, so interenational tyupe sales would require 24 hour staffing, almost impossible in NZ imo at the moment, but maybe on some of the biggest web based retailers around the world, although i wonder how long until the person would be photoshopped into someone more attractive than the person that was answering the question,

Oh noes, You said the "R" word.

The sites I have used didn't have the webcam, Just a live chat client. You log in and put in your query and it gets dealt with in real time. For me its been a deal-maker. I have always been quite happy to log onto the site in question late at night to get the real time interface.

On a local scene it can just be implemented into a desktop running at the company premises.

Initial cost=Zero.....provided someone is already employed to sit at that PC.

[avgas]

Hooters
Big giamungus pair of Hooters

and a devilish ,,,take me home smile

Hell I would even buy something

Stephen

I agree completely with this statement.
No more ugly biker knobs in bike shop. Gimmie hot chicks.
I have idea - Mermaids should sell bikes!

[Headbanger]

Yup because his buisiness is not making enough money to support his ambitions/requirements- it has therefore failed.

Damn, And I was quite happy about everything I achieved in my last business venture, Damn that job offer with company wagon, higher wages, and less stress.