Police killing us again!

[Crasherfromwayback]

"Mr Wilkin said ...The back of the police vehicle was "virtually torn off". (Herald) Comparing this statement with the picture of the car suggests to me that Mr Wilkin is not a reliable witness.

Tossbag is the term I'd use.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Now, I've done a bit of aerial motorcycling in my day. Firstly, a 7 metre flight is bugger all. It implies a definately low impact speed.

Stop press!!! Ixion and I agree on something! My 120kph 'T' boning of a car threw me approx 20m down the road. 7 metres = not great impact speed.

[avgas]

Police killing us again!

Good god will no one stop them???!!!!!
Quick hero of the internet - protect us all with your reporting!
God speed to you!

Thats right - you and me, we are 'US'.......and they, they are "THEM"
Go burn a flag hippie

[shrub]

Thats dependant on a number of factors, speed obviously, and survivable is not a number, you can fall badly at very low speed and not survive. Something only the crash forensics will know the full story of is my guess, and I'm hoping its not hushed up. As somebody said earlier, its odd the guy made no mention of hearing the ute doing 154kmhr, but the bike sounded like it was speeding, sounds like some knob just wanted to get on the telly. And surely if they though the rider knew the ute driver they would have been able to have a chat with hiim by now? that sounds like poor journalism on the harolds part.

Just before Xmas a guy I was riding with binned his Guzzi at around 100kmh and didn't make it to hospital, and my son binned his VT250 a few years ago at 160 kmh and walked away with a bruised thumb. Best riding lesson ever! What you hit has more impact (no pun intended) than how fast you're going.

And you're right, I reckon the twat on TV was full of crap - most people would notice a ute doing 154 kmh before they'd notice a bike doing damn near any speed.

[Ixion]

Thats nice, but it was Ixions endemic of dereliction which I was referring to.



Yeh it still is, just list the Bikers killed by Police since the inception of the force in this country, it surely shouldn't be hard?

You can't have an 'endemic of'. Endemic means "particular to a certain locality region or people". In this case the people is cops. So endemic dereliction means that the problem isn't just a one off fuck up, it's across the board.

The problem being the police philosophy that handing out a speeding ticket justifies any behaviour , not matter how dangerous.

As to numbers, you can do the arithmetic. The press have identified numerous previous cases . It's them that are calling for a review, not me,or BRONZ (yet). Add on the cases reported on this site and in this very thread. And Ms Candor has provided further input in her posts . As did Mr Goddard.

If you still refuse to admit, in the face of all those reports, that police dangerous driving is injuring and killing us , then nothing is going to convince you, and I'm not going to waste my time trying. Lead a horse to water, and so on. (It may well be injuring or killing non motorcyclists too. I don't know about them, so I'm not commenting on them)

[Ktmboy]

I'd agree that the cops are killing us, but its the policy makers that are even more responsible.

Heres my theory having done 80k a year every year for 20yrs (yes in a cage) for work and seeing the road toll increase whilst frustrations grow.

The revenue pollicy over the last decade has seen our road speeds decrease marketly. How often do you sit behind cages doing 80kph in a 100k zone with 20 cars piled up behind them? Every single day.
No one is keen to overtake because they are scared that plod will come around the corner and they will be given a ticket for doing 107 whilst in an overtaking move.
Its true. This builds to frustration and leads to dodgey overtaking collecting the unsusspecting motorbike rider coming the other way..

Yep speed is killing us. Not fast speed so much but slow speeders.
Well my theory anyway.

[nana_mac]

and further from the nz herald article "However, Carl Jackson, of Jackson Engineering, where Mr Brown worked part-time, told the Herald Mr Brown had been following his ute as the pair headed to their respective homes after spending time at a friend's house on Sunday afternoon. When asked if he had been speeding, Mr Jackson said he "might have been".
He said he didn't know if it had been him police had started to chase, but as he returned to town he "saw the ambulance speeding past" and figured something had happened.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10639521

So here the neighbour says two were seen getting out of the Police car. Sounds like inattentive driving or lets get that B......d instead of using a radio. Which side will he defend and has this person also been given time off the job. If this person was not a Police officer then who was with the affending officer who made the wrong judgment call taking another Motor Bike rider from us all who have respect for them.

R.I.P Paul Let your leathers flap againest your sides on your last ride

[Deano]

Stuff today adds a new datum. They state that the rider was catapulted seven metres.

This article claims he travelled 30m.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10639521

[MSTRS:Me]

The problem being the police philosophy that handing out a speeding ticket justifies any behaviour , not matter how dangerous.

I'm not so sure that this is completely right. In the sense that they 'all' do it...
However, even one - is one too many. Since it's akin to rolling a dice...keep doing it, and eventually you'll throw a double six.

[Ixion]

Link no longer exists.

[Deano]

Link no longer exists.

Fixed now.

[Hoon]

No question, not a clever place to turn around thats a given. I'm no mathmetician or crash analyst but how far would a rider need to scrub off speed to make a collision either survivable or for a skilled rider avoidable? Has any facts been released yet on the actual distance from line of sight on the other side of the crest to where the impact occured?

Yep like yourself and unlike the other KB eggsperts I'm not prepared to come to any conclusion until I know a few more facts namely:

How fast was the rider going?
How much distance did the rider have to act before colliding with the Police car?

If the Police car gave 100m visibility then cleared.
If the Police car was within 100m visibility the rider was travelling at the speed limit then yes definately to blame and the cop should be charged.
From the pics it looks pretty close and forgive me for questioning the accuracy of anyones eye-crometer but I'll wait for the facts from someone on the ground.

[Ixion]

I'm not so sure that this is completely right. In the sense that they 'all' do it...
However, even one - is one too many. Since it's akin to rolling a dice...keep doing it, and eventually you'll throw a double six.

Correct. Not every cop buys into it . Hence 'endemic' rather than 'universal'. 'police philosophy' here means that set by the police higher command. Individual officers may (or may not) apply common sense. And I imagine that general duties officers are less hung up on it than highway patrol. Problem is that there's enough that do buy in to kill us.

[terbang]

Whats the story? Two of them in the car?

[Indoo]

As to numbers, you can do the arithmetic.)

So there are no previous incidents of Police careless driving causing biker deaths are there then Ixion, might want to retract your original claim and replace it with something thats actually true and that you have the figures for. Facts and figures rather than emotive false statements create a far more convincing argument.