Are we TOTALLY invisible?

[Katman]

I can understand what you're saying, and you may have a good point.

Well there's progress.

However it seems that you are in constant opposition to nearly all other users, regardless of which thread you're posting in.

So?

[JudaBaker]

I believe that we should treat every other road user with caution (bordering on suspicion) but feel that anything much more than that is simply perpetuating the 'us versus them' mentality.

We need to take whatever steps we can to engender a sense of harmonic co-existance.

We won't get that by constantly refering to them as "fucking cagers".

Yes, because a car actually has just as much of a right to be on the road as a bike does, believe it or not.. (It seems alot of people don't)

I have for the most part found car drivers to be respectful and they normally give me more unused road space between us than I would normally get when driving a car myself. I have even had cars wait to make sure what direction I am travelling through an intersection after forgetting to turn the indicator off. The problem is that you will get idiots and morons on the road regardless of their preferred mode of transport, and more cars equals more idiots driving them, the type of idiot that will pull in front of anything, bike or not.

[p.dath]

I actually wonder whether this "treat every car driver as though they're trying to kill you" is a concept that is holding us back.

I agree. I think living with the perception that everyone is trying to kill you on the road is a little psychotic.

It's simple. There are risks on the road. You have to learn to recognise them. You have to learn to mitigate them.

And in case it isn't obvious - the same thing applies to most things in your life. Everything carries a risk. You need to recognise them, and mitigate them. Doesn't mean you should avoid life or change your entire lifestyle. I think they call it "life experience".

[Old Steve]

But don't forget to wear earplugs - otherwise you'll become a deaf old man.

What was that you said? Too late, I already am. I need loud pipes so I can tell if my engine is running or if I've stalled at an intersection - again.

[insane1]

loud pipes do make a diffrence the more you can make yourself seen+heard the better.

[Kickaha]

loud pipes do make a diffrence the more you can make yourself seen+heard the better.

I ride a Bevel drive Ducati with Conti pipes and they aren't exactly quiet and I notice no difference at all in traffic

In the several company cars and utes I have had with the windows up and radio at a moderate level I have not heard any bike until it is pulling alongside no matter what pipes it has on whether on the open road or around town (hearing is checked annually)

LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVE in my opinion is nothing more than good marketing and I doubt can really be proved either way

[imdying]

In the several company cars and utes I have had with the windows up and radio at a moderate level I have not heard any bike until it is pulling alongside no matter what pipes it has on whether on the open road or around town (hearing is checked annually)

Totally agree. People can run loud pipes if they like, makes no difference to me, but I wish they wouldn't fool themselves into thinking it's helping them be noticed in traffic.

[MIXONE]

I ride a Bevel drive Ducati with Conti pipes and they aren't exactly quiet and I notice no difference at all in traffic

In the several company cars and utes I have had with the windows up and radio at a moderate level I have not heard any bike until it is pulling alongside no matter what pipes it has on whether on the open road or around town (hearing is checked annually)

LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVE in my opinion is nothing more than good marketing and I doubt can really be proved either way

Totally disagree.I ride a belt drive ducati with loud pipes and notice that traffic tend to give me more room because they hear me coming.Also the traffic lights at work malfunctioned the other day sticking on green for both up and down traffic.One of my workmates was coming down the ramp in his car as I was coming up.He heard me long before seeing me and stopped rather then continuing and nailing me on the next corner.

[p.dath]

My bike dosen't have a load exhaust, so I can't speak out of personal experience. But here are my thoughts anyway.

You have 5 senses. That means you have 5 ways to be able to "stimulate" another road user into noticing you.

Hearing is a sense. Load pipes is a way to stimulate that sense (so is a horn ...). Sure not all road users will hear you because of there car stereo or what ever - but making no noise is guaranteed not to stiumulate their audible sense.

So it seems very reasonable that loud pipes will have more of an impact in getting you noticed as opposed to making no noise at all.


Have you seen the issue with electric cars and pedestrains stepping out in front of them because there didn't "hear" the car? They are looking at regulating that electric cars make a noise like petrol cars to prevent these stupid mistakes.

[Kickaha]

Totally disagree.I ride a belt drive ducati with loud pipes and notice that traffic tend to give me more room because they hear me coming.Also the traffic lights at work malfunctioned the other day sticking on green for both up and down traffic.One of my workmates was coming down the ramp in his car as I was coming up.He heard me long before seeing me and stopped rather then continuing and nailing me on the next corner.

How can anyone ever know they were heard rather than seen by all these people giving them more room?

I see them several car lengths away, I don't hear any of them until they are pulling alongside no matter what brand and type of bike and exhaust

[caseye]

Sorry kat and p.dath but to treat any other road user as not a physco out to kill you as a bike rider is tantamount to suicide.
This does not mean you will become a physcotic wreck yourself it simply means YOu look out for all of them, all the time.
I'm not somoene who pathologically hates car/truck drivers just because they drive instead of ride, but treat em both with kid gloves and be prepared for anything from them , Oh Yes.
I know what you are both saying, but it is only allowing for the LOWEST COMMON Denominator and quite frankly I'm sick of being treated this way by Govt agencies, Police and anyone else who sudenly beciomes someone with power.

[p.dath]

Sorry kat and p.dath but to treat any other road user as not a physco out to kill you as a bike rider is tantamount to suicide.

Using my own mantra - that's a risk I'm prepared to accept.

[caseye]

Using my own mantra - that's a risk I'm prepared to accept.

Good luck my friend, and yes I do count you as one.You can't possibly tell me that you don't see everyone around you and assess ahead of time what they're going to do next.Naturally I'm talking about any and all motorists, not just car users.
Risk is relevant, please stay alert when riding around cars/cages and not being on full alert all the time they are there.Thats when, "they" will Getcha!

[Katman]

Sorry kat and p.dath but to treat any other road user as not a physco out to kill you as a bike rider is tantamount to suicide.

I'm quite capable of surviving simply by treating every car driver with caution.

Seeing every car driver as "out to kill you" is bordering on psychosis.

[Old Steve]

I drilled the back baffles out of my exhausts the evening of this incident, below:

Coming home from work in my first week of riding a bike, down Chapel St in Tauranga, towards the lights at the bottom of the hill, I'm in the right hand lane right beside the open driver's window of a Nissan Cefiro boy racer in the left hand lane. Out of the corner of my eye I saw his hands move on the steering wheel and he just pulled right into my space, I braked and pulled right into the right hand turn lane, he never saw me.

He had to stop at the red light under the bridge so I wheeled up beside him and asked what he didn't see, my fluoro jacket, my largest 250 cruiser, my headlight on high beam. He said, "I looked in the mirror and you weren't there." He never turned his head before he pulled into my lane. I lectured him on the need to look over your shoulder before changing direction, and suggested that his parents got married.

If my bike had been making the noise it makes now, he'd have known I was there.

Now I'm more careful about where I ride in relationship to other vehicles, luckily I got the chance to learn from that experience. If I hadn't seen his hands turn the wheel I could have been another one of the ACC's statistics.