The ACC saga - a new approach.

[jellywrestler]

Sounds good to me (but scooters would be just as capable of instilling good road sense).

Dunno whether I agree with you on this one.
Kids don't very often differentiate between scooters and bicycles/skateboards whereas with a proper motorcycle with two different braking systems and a gearbox to learn and manage the step up requires a bit more nouse and with that they seem to respect they have something to be weary of etc.
The other thing is the horrid little wheels on scooters are susceptable to potholes etc and less stable than motorcycles.
power too is not a bad thing, I use to work at massey university in palmerston north and dunno how many times I saw scooters put themselves in danger simply because they didn't have enough ponies to keep up with the traffic

[Katman]

Dunno whether I agree with you on this one.
Kids don't very often differentiate between scooters and bicycles/skateboards whereas with a proper motorcycle with two different braking systems and a gearbox to learn and manage the step up requires a bit more nouse and with that they seem to respect they have something to be weary of etc.
The other thing is the horrid little wheels on scooters are susceptable to potholes etc and less stable than motorcycles.
power too is not a bad thing, I use to work at massey university in palmerston north and dunno how many times I saw scooters put themselves in danger simply because they didn't have enough ponies to keep up with the traffic

You might be right Spyda but I don't think we want to go suggesting that the powers that be ban scooters. A little too close to the bone if you get my drift.

[davereid]

Not scroters...please. Those things are death traps.
Better to go with the Brit model (up to 125 for 15 yo) for learner stage, hp restriction for next stage, then open for full licence at 18+

Actually, statistically scooters are very safe.

For real safe motorcycling we need real balls.

I'd suggest a 125cc, 12hp limit for all motorcyclists. Only racers need more than that, the speed limit is, after all, only 100km/hr, which even 125cc motorcycles can do, all day every day.

Ban pillion passengers, then even if a car driver is at fault, the motorcycle passenger is not at risk.

All we need is the will to put in the restrictions.

[igormortis]

Has anyone brought up a Govt. (ACC) subsidy on approved safety gear?

[fossil]

Has anyone brought up a Govt. (ACC) subsidy on approved safety gear?

How about no gst on safety gear?

[miloking]

I'd suggest a 125cc, 12hp limit for all motorcyclists. Only racers need more than that, the speed limit is, after all, only 100km/hr, which even 125cc motorcycles can do, all day every day.

Well if this is the way it has to be....
Do you think its possible to turbo charge 125cc or just run it on methanol?

[miloking]

Well, duh! Of course that category has the highest % of claims. That's what happens when people are learning...they make mistakes/errors of judgment. I can only imagine the carnage that would exist if there was no cc restriction.
Do you really think it would be responsible to allow 17yo Little Johnny to get on a ZX14? Yes - there will be exceptions (my boy on a Busa at 15) that would be fine, but they would be quite rare. Girls would probably be fine (it's a brain-development thing, apparently) but would be more sensible in their choice of weapon if there was no cc restriction. As for the over 25s...the exceptions would be a much higher %, but overall, still not enough to relax the rules more than just time stages.
IT TAKES TIME TO LEARN TO HANDLE BIKES and the cemeteries are full of those that didn't.

And there you have it...why are we all punished for "people learning" by cracking their skulls? (meaning why is my over 600cc rego gone up nearly double yet 250cc didnt????)
And of course its not ok for little Timmy to buy ZX14 even tho some of the larger bikers are probably safer than those deadly GN250s we force the learners to ride....

[Katman]

And there you have it...why are we all punished for "people learning" by cracking their skulls? (meaning why is my over 600cc rego gone up nearly double yet 250cc didnt????)
And of course its not ok for little Timmy to buy ZX14 even tho some of the larger bikers are probably safer than those deadly GN250s we force the learners to ride....

I knew you'd finally 'get it'.

It makes no difference why we're all being punished - the fact is that we are.

It is therefore in our best interest to reduce the number of cracked skulls. (And it's not only learners who are 'cracking skulls').

[MSTRS:Me]

And there you have it...why are we all punished for "people learning" by cracking their skulls? (meaning why is my over 600cc rego gone up nearly double yet 250cc didnt????)
And of course its not ok for little Timmy to buy ZX14 even tho some of the larger bikers are probably safer than those deadly GN250s we force the learners to ride....

It's the Earnings Comp part - people with big bikes (tend to) earn a lot more than those with 250s. That said, Merc/Beemer/Porsche/etc owners don't part more than Corolla owners, which makes a complete mockery of the bike breakdown.
Also, I don't agree with your premise that big bikes are safer than little ones. All bikes have an equal chance of crashing/falling over. The difference is that big bikes are ridden by those with some experience (they did their falling over on their GN). So the rider determines the real risk.

[jellywrestler]

Has anyone brought up a Govt. (ACC) subsidy on approved safety gear?

you must be joking, i remember when ARAI helmets, the one they (ACC) used in their own advert encouraging riders to wear the safety gear had an import duty of 23%!
this was to protect the local industry which with all due respect weren't producing a helmet with anywhere near the protection qualities of the Arai.
Thankfully nowadays that production techniques have improved that the difference between the best and worst helmets has considerably narrowed

[miloking]

I knew you'd finally 'get it'.

It makes no difference why we're all being punished - the fact is that we are.

It is therefore in our best interest to reduce the number of cracked skulls. (And it's not only learners who are 'cracking skulls').

Yes, and thats exacly the part that gets most frustrating...as iam not cracking my skull and never did and there is nothing i can personally do to stop little Timmy on GN250 from cracking his.
So if more young people take on motorcycling (therefore causing more accidents due to learning process) ..we can expect further increases in ACC fees and possibly new legislations coming to make motorcycling "safer"...

Maybe the only "solution" is that we should all discurage young people from riding or taking on motorcycling so its only experienced riders riding..and once accident stats improve because of it everything will go back to normal...well at leats thats the vibe iam geting from all this...

[Katman]

...well at leats thats the vibe iam geting from all this...

That would be because English is your second language.

[Squiggles]

Maybe the only "solution" is that we should all discurage young people from riding or taking on motorcycling so its only experienced riders riding..and once accident stats improve because of it everything will go back to normal...well at leats thats the vibe iam geting from all this...

Everytime we thrash out the age-experience thing we get the same result, we're ALL crashing. Males & Females both young and old...

[That looks like fun]

Alrighty then Sarcastic reply to one side there are some good positives coming through in this thread. So now the million dollar question, how to put forward these initiatives for debate by people who can make them happen ( Polly ti-scions )
Should we go with Rent A Crowd? (Minto, Bradford, McCarten), BRONZ, Lobby local M.P? Perhaps another Bikoi?
Where to from here?

[davereid]

Maybe the only "solution" is that we should all discurage young people from riding or taking on motorcycling so its only experienced riders riding...

That's a side effect of high ACC levies, and a complicated and restrictive licensing system.

My nephew bought an RG150 as a commuter. He's just in the process of selling it, as the rego and insurance are getting too expensive.

A friend I ride with wanted to get a bike for his wife, she was keen too. But the economics of buying a 250, then selling it to buy another bike at the end of the learner restriction period just made it easier to stick with the status quo, or at least plan "b" which is to get the restricted on a bike borrowed off me, and just leave getting her own bike till she is fully licensed.

These things will never stop a committed rider. But the guy who just wants a bike for commuting, and easy parking may well be put off, and just get a car instead.

I personally think that that is a loss to biking. Most of the old jokers on here started as commuters, as they could not afford a car.