Islamisation

[R-Soul]

Argh! Too late - there are christians everywhere back here!


You think the people committing violent crime in New Zealand are the ones who had no smacking in their lives? I work with violent offenders and I would say that 90% of them had violent parents (either mother, father or both). I think the problems you envision come when the smacking generation realise they don't know any way of dealing with their problems other than the family fist.



Can we just ban religion altogether then?
I don't know how I end up feeling like I'm defending the Taleban. I'd be more than happy if they disappeared from the face on the earth. Same with Destiny Church. I know some muslim's who would never hurt anyone and just want to go about their lives, i know some christians who are the same, heck I even know some non-religious people who don't feel the need to push their beliefs on other people, and don't feel the need to kill anyone in the course of their lives.

Surely it's extremism of all flavours that needs to be addressed, not singling out random religions, ethnicities or the like.

yeah, but are you becoming an extrme moderate now?

You see that is the problem - moderates just could never be arsed, or simply dont have the political will to be extreme in their "moderateness". We simply have to takle this aspect on faith. Much like religion.
One of life's little ironies...

This is why it is always the extremists that claim to be the word and the "truth" of the people, and to others listening to it, it sounds true because nobody opposes them. But the truth is that the moderates dont feel extreme enough pretend to speak for an entire religion or people.

And when extremists communicate, they scream out their beliefs, while moderates state them calmly, which is why moderates never make as much of a headline impact.

Mankind has an annoying habit of only listening to those who shout the loudest...

[R-Soul]

If you think about it maybe we have more to thank religion for than we do actually have to curse it for!

The silent majority who do not mess with our lives, probably only do so "because of their religion"!

I disagree. think about it tis way. If people thought that there was not an afterlife, and that tis was teh only one going, do you think they would be more or less likely to join in wars, crusades, carry out suicide missions, or even do crime. Do you think that they would be more careful with the one they have got? Do you think that they would insist that their religious masters show more commitment to their own cause (eg by carrying out suicide missions themselves first) before they committed all they have?

I think that, because most people feel that they probably are going to get a "second chance" (or even innumerous chances), they will more readily commit their lives to causes based in religion.

Religion NEEEDS to promise an afterlife, or else nobody would show any kind of commitment to the shit that have wanted their followers to do throughout history.

[rustyrobot]

yeah, but are you becoming an extrme moderate now?

Argh - I probably am. There's some sort of strange paradox in there. If you commit to live a life of 'do no harm' and let others live their lives how they want (live and let live), what do you do when they way others live is all about making people do what THEY want (thinking of pretty much every major philosophy here: communism, capitalist, christianity, islam, hinduism, etc.).

...And when extremists communicate, they scream out their beliefs, while moderates state them calmly, which is why moderates never make as much of a headline impact.

Mankind has an annoying habit of only listening to those who shout the loudest...

That is so sadly true. It's all about how convinced you are yourself. That's why people follow screwballs like Jim Jones, Charles Manson, Bin Laden, Brian Tamaki, (add nutbar leader here). The voices of moderates get lost in all the noise. Fortunately though, lots of moderates find themselves in policy making positions, and amongst the civil service, so while the gas-bag populists get the positions of note, the moderates do their work behind the scenes, and get to stay round longer than 3 or 4 years too.

[marie_speeds]

There is currently a group in NZ as we breath who are being vilified by the govt and the press. Everything about this group of people is bad, bad, bad. Lock up your sons and daughters, keep them safe, because this group of people are just downright dangerous. They should be banned, and kept out of society. Because no good ever comes of them.
Then there is the group themselves. Yes they say there are those of us who are a bit extreme. But the rest of us just moderate fun loving people with a common idol that we worship. We are not out to harm anyone, we are just here because of our common interest and love. Why is the Govt vilifying us? Why the constant bad press? Not all of us are extreme or dangerous! We shall form a group and we shall fight this injustice. We will prove to the population of NZ that we are not bad, not dangerous, and that no one has anything to fear from us. The majority of us are good law abiding citizens, few bad apples does not mean that we all should be penalised.

[Berries]

I thought this thread was about Islam, now you are just talking about bike riders. Or the cops.

Burn them all.

[Edbear]

I disagree. think about it tis way. If people thought that there was not an afterlife, and that tis was teh only one going, do you think they would be more or less likely to join in wars, crusades, carry out suicide missions, or even do crime. Do you think that they would be more careful with the one they have got? Do you think that they would insist that their religious masters show more commitment to their own cause (eg by carrying out suicide missions themselves first) before they committed all they have?

I think that, because most people feel that they probably are going to get a "second chance" (or even innumerous chances), they will more readily commit their lives to causes based in religion.

Religion NEEEDS to promise an afterlife, or else nobody would show any kind of commitment to the shit that have wanted their followers to do throughout history.

Everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die...

One of the rare cases where I agree with you in the main, though. Especially the bit about "leading by example". Whatever happened to the cry, "Follow me!" as they charged off into battle..? Let the clergy and the pollies fight the battles, after all they're the ones who want the fight, aren't they?

[Hitcher]

Dearest members

I fear that this thread is fast approaching the stage where it shall be deemed "religious discussion" and relegated to the dark, dismal and dingy depths of Pointless Drivel, in accordance with The Site Owner's express wishes on such matters.

And you did so well for so long...

[Edbear]

Dearest members

I fear that this thread is fast approaching the stage where it shall be deemed "religious discussion" and relegated to the dark, dismal and dingy depths of Pointless Drivel, in accordance with The Site Owner's express wishes on such matters.

And you did so well for so long...

Maybe after 22 pages people are running out of things to say.

[marie_speeds]

I thought this thread was about Islam, now you are just talking about bike riders. Or the cops.

Burn them all.

LOL Maybe I was and maybe I wasn't .....


Nah your right! It was bike riders. But what I was trying to show was that it is very easy to condemn a certain part/group of society based only on what the media portrays. How does the average safe bike rider prove that not all riders are dangerous and bad? How does the average moderate Muslim prove that not all Muslims are extreme fundamentalists?

[rustyrobot]

From tattoos to a menacing nickname, MOB has everything you'd expect from a rough and tough biker gang.

But look a little closer and you'll see that the group has little in common with the stereotypical above-the-law biker gangs you see on TV or in movies. The name MOB stands for "Muslims on Bikes," and the group strives to represent the ideals of its religion with its Thursday night rides that meet at the Islamic Center of America in Dearborn.
"The name makes it sound like we're tough guys," said group founder Hussein Abdallah. "We're not weak but at the same time, we're gentlemen."

What began with six members when it was founded in June of this year has now grown to 44 as MOB rides from Dearborn to other cities around Michigan an average of twice per week.
The group was founded as a way to unite bikers in the Arab community and to give them guidance on how to ride safely. Abdallah saw injuries and even a death in the community and thought it was time to educate local riders.

He met with some friends and organized rides, but the group faced strong resistance from the mosque because they feared that they would be a negative representation of Islam.
But after some convincing and plenty of peaceful rides, MOB is now viewed as a positive representation of the religion and is allowed to use the mosque as its meeting place. They're so popular in Dearborn neighborhoods that young kids follow them up and down the streets while waving and smiling. "It's almost like we're the ice cream man or something," said Abdallah.

MOB cruises from city to city, usually stopping into a restaurant at the end of each ride. They make sure to make reservations before each stop so they don’t roll in and inconvenience the restaurant staff, and because they usually bring 25-30 people, they contribute a great deal to the local economy.

Citizens of other cities often welcome MOB and are intrigued by the concept of the group.
"A lot of people outside of the area are surprised to see us," said Abdallah. "They've never heard of Arabic people on motorcycles before." Most of them are courteous and friendly to the group and some of them even want to pose for pictures with them.

The goodwill from other towns helps keep MOB going as they continue to spread their message of peace and brotherhood. The group is in talks discussing how best to serve the local community through volunteer work in the near future. It's this mentality that keeps the group in perfect harmony with each other and the community. Many of the members went to Fordson High School and hadn't seen each other in years. Now many of them and their families are friends with each other.

While anyone is allowed to join MOB, the group makes sure its strong Islamic ethics are not compromised. "A representative from out of house might start drinking or want to go to a bar or something like that" said Abdallah about some members perhaps straying from the group's ideals.
MOB often pulls over to the side of the road to pray and Abdallah knows sometimes that certain prospective members might not expect that from a group of bikers.
"We let them know up front what (the group) is all about so they know what they're getting into."
While safety is the main focus of the group, a recent incident reminded MOB just how important riding safe can be while also strengthening the group's bond.
A woman rear-ended members of the group on Warren Avenue in Detroit. Following the accident, the group got together and prayed. "That minute I said that I knew we were all into it," said Abdallah. "Here a lady hits us at 45 miles per hour and we can still come together and talk about it."

MOB has taken their religious message to heart and now wears t-shirts with religious words on them in Arabic so that passers-by can read them and identify their positive message.
The group continues to grow, and MOB has even received calls from prospective members from California who want to move out to Michigan to be a part of the group.

http://www.newmichiganmedia.com/arti...ets/Page1.html

[marie_speeds]

OMG there are Thursday night rides advertised on KB...does this mean anything? Should I be suspicious about them? Should I dare attend a Thursday night ride and meet at that place called Westgate. Does Westgate mean anything? Westgate to where exactly? Hmmmmmm

[marie_speeds]

Actually it was a very good article. They have combined their love of riding with their religious beliefs, and have set about to show that not all muslims are extremists.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

H.I. Mencken, American Writer 1880-1956.

"The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who is able to think things out himself.... Almost inevinably, he come to the conlusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable."

that is the same for government, and religon...

[Edbear]

H.I. Mencken, American Writer 1880-1956.

"The most dangerous man, to any government, is the man who is able to think things out himself.... Almost inevinably, he come to the conlusion that the government he lives under is dishonest, insane and intolerable."

Funny but isn't that most of the population..? Every single person you speak to, and especially on here, is convinced the Govt. is dishonest, insane and intolerable... That's why Governments are kicked out every few years...

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

Funny but isn't that most of the population..? Every single person you speak to, and especially on here, is convinced the Govt. is dishonest, insane and intolerable... That's why Governments are kicked out every few years...

You don't get it... the Government are pupets...