Revolting teachers!

[MikeL]

Funny how many middle-aged men retain bitter memories of their school-days which colour their view of the teaching profession even today. Does it ever occur to them that if teachers had had higher status back then, if teaching had been valued as a profession in the way medicine, engineering and law were, there might have been fewer drongos, time-servers and sadists in the job? When the current popular opinion was "Men who can, do; men who can't, teach" it was not surprising that many talented people preferred other occupations.
At times of severe teacher shortages back in the sixties the main qualification for being put in front of a class was having a pulse. (Even so we had some doubts about some of our teachers...)
It is nevertheless likely that most of the aforesaid middle-aged men who complain so bitterly about their schooldays received a better education than they care to admit, even if it was sometimes achieved in spite of the teachers rather than because of them. Their perception is distorted by the vividness of a child's experiences of injustice, hypocrisy and other wrongs (all of which occurred from time to time), and they forget either the positive contribution of the teacher or the fact that they themselves were reluctant or resistant participants in their own education.

[oldrider]

That would've been in the early 50s? 34 years before corporal punishment was banned in schools (89) 40 years before the internet explorer was released (95) Steve Jobs wasnt even 1yo!

Are our own experiences enough to make calls on the teachers of today?

That would all be true if it all simply stopped back then but you have to allow for continuity through relations, friends, children and grandchildren

The whole education system seems geared towards the needs of female students, female parents and female teachers. Shite pay aside, one of the main reasons I got out was all the PC bullshit. Couldn't call a spade a spade. Sometimes you'd just want to tell parents their kid was a first class little shit in need of some parental attention, instead of referring to ADHD or other bollox behavioral disorder the local glorified social workers had dreamed up to appease mummy and daddy. And don't get me started on working with other teachers. Christ, about 1/4 of them were fantastic, 1/4 average and the other 1/2 couldn't get a job at McDonalds. Unfortunately it seemed to be the most useless that ended up heading departments. I'm all for better teacher pay. It's a stressful job. However, it should be performance related and based on peer reviews. Get rid of the dross and pay the good ones what they deserve.

Teachers standing in the community began to deteriorate from the time they formed their union and collectively protected the poor performers, at the expense of the high performers!

Teachers value today is determined by the lowest common denominator, (as ye sow, then shall ye reap) collectivism breeds mediocrity!

Funny how many middle-aged men retain bitter memories of their school-days which colour their view of the teaching profession even today. Does it ever occur to them that if teachers had had higher status back then, if teaching had been valued as a profession in the way medicine, engineering and law were, there might have been fewer drongos, time-servers and sadists in the job? When the current popular opinion was "Men who can, do; men who can't, teach" it was not surprising that many talented people preferred other occupations.
At times of severe teacher shortages back in the sixties the main qualification for being put in front of a class was having a pulse. (Even so we had some doubts about some of our teachers...)
It is nevertheless likely that most of the aforesaid middle-aged men who complain so bitterly about their schooldays received a better education than they care to admit, even if it was sometimes achieved in spite of the teachers rather than because of them. Their perception is distorted by the vividness of a child's experiences of injustice, hypocrisy and other wrongs (all of which occurred from time to time), and they forget either the positive contribution of the teacher or the fact that they themselves were reluctant or resistant participants in their own education.

Middle aged? I wish!

Your assumption that teachers of yesterday were not held in high regard is false, it is only today under collective unionism that teachers have begun to be lumped in together, good bad or indifferent, they are all judged to be the same!

This is because the teachers themselves, good bad or indifferent, much like chronic alcoholics, insist on clinging to and defending that bottle!

[Oscar]

Agreed on all counts, bringing back caning wouldnt go amiss either.

Teachers arent a special group of people where their proffession is unique in being irksome and challenging, they also arent unique in wanting to be paid more. But there isnt more available and they should accept the fact.

Like I said earlier there are other pressing priorities like reinstating a half credible Air Force after the arch lezzo of them all messed with it

Four punctuation errors and a spelling mistake.
Where did you go to school, Robert?
Were you irksome and challenging to teach?

[SVboy]

And your "counter argument' is what exactly? You had a shit time at school way back when and yet you can make a judgement as to what I,m worth now and the fact that teachers of differing strengths should be paid on some mystery scale based on what? Results-Oh I see-so people like myself who specialise in students with challenging behaviours and limited abilities would get little, because the students would not achieve according to the "national standards'!! That sounds clever. You say there are fewer excellent teachers-eh? What do you base that fact less statement on?
And finally, being a student back in the old days does not give you the experience to pass judgement on my colleagues and I.

Try our job? Not a good argument sorry!

Voters don't need to have been politicians to be able to judge political performance!

Personally I had 16 years as a teachers customer, most of us have had something similar, we don't need to "try your job", we have all suffered the consequences as teachers customers!

Experience enough in my estimation!

There are always more followers than there are leaders in the world, just as there are fewer excellent teachers (who are worth their weight in gold IMHO) than there are filling the ranks of teaching mediocrity!

How anyone could ever claim collective equality in teacher performance is beyond comprehension IMHO!

[Swoop]

I have no problem with teachers being paid more. In fact I think everyone has a right to apply for a pay rise.

However, I have one simple question - WHY?

What has significantly changed in teachers lives that requires them to have more money?

Inflation. The cost of living. GST increase.

Wages are failing to keep up with the cost of living (except for politicians, of course).

[gijoe1313]

Well gosh and darn it to heck, I wanted to take it easy and fall asleep in class - but my seniors all insisted on doing their speech assessments sheesh! And I had "Walking Tall" playing for the movie!

I dunno, the youf of today!

Had to trudge out of the warm classroom to the cricket pitch to watch a speech about cricket, another lad did his football skills, etc etc. It's like they wanted to get their credits or something!

And the elation and relief they had when realised they had done much better than they thought. I must be getting softer in my old age. Letting them have merits and excellence. Tch. Will go to their heads it will!

So much for kicking back and taking it easy on the last day of term! The cheek of it!

I even had to enter their marks under their insistence! I dunno, do they think it's my job or something to do that?

[SVboy]

Fair question. I have been in teaching long enough to see a huge shift and increase in what is expected in modern teaching. To keep it brief, not only is there the challenge of keeping education relevant and up to date, there is the huge increase in administrivia, the need to produce results AND the need to have skills to deal with students who are the product of an often diverse and fractured background. It is not easy,and INMO and experience, teachers who cant cope quickly dont and leave. [despite that reactionary rubbish OLDRIDER was dribbling about the union protecting the mediocre!!] . Sounds like you have had a taste of how it can be in our world . Again I state that the $$ is only part of a package aimed at enhancing being a teacher. What would be the attraction for a teacher to stay current, make the extra effort and maintain the passion if the $$ are not keeping up with inflation. [Let alone attracting quality people into the job]

Nope - being a tutor/trainer
Used to be a case of me just being the poly-filla......

But lately my poly-filla, has been used for foundations.......

Not really blaming secondary school teachers for this though, as many of the clients have tertiary education as well.

But while I agree with what you have said about the world changing.......does this justify that you should be paid more? If so, why specifically? What are the problem points? Do you do more work since this has changed? (I think this is the point your trying to make)
Validate your argument.

[mashman]

Inflation. The cost of living. GST increase.

Wages are failing to keep up with the cost of living (except for politicians, of course).

don't forget the extra 30 cents per hundred bucks earned for the employee levy (to pay for proposed business discounts no doubt ).

[Shorty_925]

Again I state that the $$ is only part of a package aimed at enhancing being a teacher. What would be the attraction for a teacher to stay current, make the extra effort and maintain the passion if the $$ are not keeping up with inflation. [Let alone attracting quality people into the job]

$'s is all its about, never anything else. Theres alot of jobs that havent and arent kept up with inflation and comparing to alot of jobs, teachers get it very good.

[Smifffy]

Go on strike then, maybe it'll force a few parents to wake up to what their sprogs get up to, rather than relying on a state appointed nanny service.

When you have lost a week or two's worth of wages and some of your demands are (partially) met, you will be able to sit back with the satisfaction that it was all for the good of the students.

Any teachers planning on putting in two 40 hour weeks from the 27th?

[oldrider]

[despite that reactionary rubbish OLDRIDER was dribbling about the union protecting the mediocre!!] .

Hello,......."I" am not the one with the problem here...you are! (apparently you and your fellow teachers)

I am simply offering an opinion on why it is you continuously find yourselves feeling unappreciated overworked and underpaid!

This comes up as a hardy annual and nothing has ever changed between these repetitive bouts of employment dissatisfaction!

If you are doing so well, why do you keep on complaining and bleating for more & more money?

Why is it that nothing ever changes?

Because you keep on doing things the same way and expect to get a different result!

When anyone offers a hint of a solution, you try to shoot the messenger and carry on doing the same thing all over again!

Well it gets a tad monotonous and and gets the public to wondering just what sort of twits "are" teaching our kids!

Teachers need to get their head out of their arse and do some serious thinking about what it is they want out of their employment and get it sorted!

No two teachers are of the same value and I just happen to believe they should be paid according to their "individual" worth!

Oh well, see you next year, when you do it all again then!

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

When anyone offers a hint of a solution, you try to shoot the messenger and carry on doing the same thing all over again!

Sounds like humans in general...

[SVboy]

Oops touched a few nerves here!! Your big swerve to the right has seen you miss the points made entirely. Nearly all teachers are there for the satisfaction-they would not do it for the $$. If you reviewed previous posts here you would see that hourly rates are poor compensation for the hours put in. That is the reality of teaching.We are here because we try to make a contribution, but we would like our efforts appreciated appropriately. Please review my previous posts FULLY about why teachers feel the need for industrial action. I think teachers are well aware they will struggle to get public support at this time, but believe in the principle and aims of their action enough to battle for them.
As to your assertion that nothing ever changes in education-perhaps that is your myopic perception, but here in 2010, I can assure you things have moved on from your time.
As to your idea about some imaginary pay scale based on somehow identifying which teachers are better than others-it is you who should pull your head out of your arse, and join us back in the real world, if only so you can crank up the mobility scooter so you can go and vote ACT or whatever other political crackpots might share your view.

Hello,......."I" am not the one with the problem here...you are! (apparently you and your fellow teachers)

I am simply offering an opinion on why it is you continuously find yourselves feeling unappreciated overworked and underpaid!

This comes up as a hardy annual and nothing has ever changed between these repetitive bouts of employment dissatisfaction!

If you are doing so well, why do you keep on complaining and bleating for more & more money?

Why is it that nothing ever changes?

Because you keep on doing things the same way and expect to get a different result!

When anyone offers a hint of a solution, you try to shoot the messenger and carry on doing the same thing all over again!

Well it gets a tad monotonous and and gets the public to wondering just what sort of twits "are" teaching our kids!

Teachers need to get their head out of their arse and do some serious thinking about what it is they want out of their employment and get it sorted!

No two teachers are of the same value and I just happen to believe they should be paid according to their "individual" worth!

Oh well, see you next year, when you do it all again then!

[aprilia_RS250]

I'm against teachers getting a pay rise. I think my HARD COLD EARNED tax dollars could be spent better, like subsidising motorcycles ACC levies.

[SVboy]

I'm against teachers getting a pay rise. I think my HARD COLD EARNED tax dollars could be spent better, like subsidising motorcycles ACC levies.

Now thats the kind of logic I can respect!!