Biker down. Yep I just got bowled...

**onearmedbandit** · 11th November 2010, 09:13

neels, not being a shit stirrer here but wasn't there already an incident at the time there. And correct me if I'm wrong but this was by the pub before Little River, the one on a blind corner on a rise?

Like I said, not trying to cast doubt on your actions or anything, but I seem to recall there was a bike race or something on at the time. And if was at that corner (and once again I could be wrong), that's a corner that I always slow down considerably for due to the pub car park being right on that bend.

**MSTRS:Me** · 11th November 2010, 09:14

Originally Posted by neels

... so the question is; What could I have done to have completely avoided the accident?

Pinning the throttle would have you get to the gap while it was still big enough to get through without touching...

**shrub** · 11th November 2010, 10:01

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Nope. Only accidents (read: acts of god) are beyond anyone's control. There is always something that can be done to avoid a crash..

Probably the only way is not to ride a bike. Let me talk about 2 crashes that happened to people I know in the last few years:

1. My son was riding home on his CBX 250 and a woman coming the other way turned right across in front of him. She didn't see him and thought the thump as running something over, and she admitted she hadn't indicated either. She turned when he was around 5 metres away according to the SCU. How could he have avoided that?

2. A mate was sitting in traffic in broad daylight and a car slammed into him because the driver was distracted by a child in the back seat and hadn't realised the traffic in front of her had stopped. He had seen her coming in his mirrors (good things to use) and had started to try and get beside the car in front of him but didn't have time. How could he have avoided that crash?

I disagree that all crashes are avoidable, and while it's important to have the skills required to avoid as many as possible blaming the rider in every case is not just counterproductive it's silly. It's also important to remember that some people don't have the experience, skill or bike to avoid a crash. Lets look at dear old Katman - he's out for a ride on his Sultana and a car pulls out in front of him. He hits the brakes, but a combination of skinny tyres and old fashioned brakes mean he also hits the car, whereas someone on a Desmoseddici with the best brakes money can buy and fat tyres, state of the art suspension etc is able to stop in the same distance. Was that Katman's fault for riding an old bike?

**MSTRS:Me** · 11th November 2010, 10:07

Perhaps I was a little misleading...
A crash is avoidable
An accident is not

Your examples (from the rider's perspective) are accidents. From the driver's, though, they are crashes.

Does that help?

**Maha** · 11th November 2010, 10:10

No im confused, crash did what?

**shrub** · 11th November 2010, 10:15

Originally Posted by MSTRS

It is my hope that he has also learned some stuff from this thread, stuff that he may not have thought of by himself..

I think being attacked from all sides has probably taught him not to look for support, encouragement and guidance on KB.

Imagine if he'd been told "that's a real bugger mate, glad you're OK. The leson you can learn is that people often do unexpected shit like turn without warning or looking, so always expect the worst and in your case that car driver was in a hurry, almost certainly didn't see you, so wasn't going to look. That combination of factors is a big old red warning light so watch for them".

Nah, that's no fun. It's really hard for the "it's always the biker's fault" school yard bullies to feel self righteous with that approach.

**neels** · 11th November 2010, 10:21

Originally Posted by onearmedbandit

neels, not being a shit stirrer here but wasn't there already an incident at the time there. And correct me if I'm wrong but this was by the pub before Little River, the one on a blind corner on a rise?

Like I said, not trying to cast doubt on your actions or anything, but I seem to recall there was a bike race or something on at the time. And if was at that corner (and once again I could be wrong), that's a corner that I always slow down considerably for due to the pub car park being right on that bend.

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Pinning the throttle would have you get to the gap while it was still big enough to get through without touching...

I was asking a serious question, and I've got two reasonable answers, interestingly one suggesting how to prevent the situation and the other how to get out of it.

But to sum it up, yes there was a bike race but it wasn't signposted, and there was an incident on the road but we hadn't got to where that was yet. I could have slowed more for the corner, but how much slower is the question, going around I could see a clear road ahead. If I had been going slower I may have been met by a completely blocked road, or I may have been able to go right as the guy about 50m behind me did, but this only worked as there was no other oncoming traffic. If I had been going faster or got on the gas sooner (because that's what I did when I saw I was pretty short of other options) I may have been past with more space.

Which kind of sums things up really, that there are any number of things you could do, but which one is right at any particular point in time? And travelling at 15/20/25 m/s it doesn't give you very long to think about it.

**kiwifruit** · 11th November 2010, 10:23

Originally Posted by shrub

1. My son was riding home on his CBX 250 and a woman coming the other way turned right across in front of him. She didn't see him and thought the thump as running something over, and she admitted she hadn't indicated either. She turned when he was around 5 metres away according to the SCU. How could he have avoided that?

2. A mate was sitting in traffic in broad daylight and a car slammed into him because the driver was distracted by a child in the back seat and hadn't realised the traffic in front of her had stopped. He had seen her coming in his mirrors (good things to use) and had started to try and get beside the car in front of him but didn't have time. How could he have avoided that crash?

1. By being more aware of the attitude of the "about to turn" car. It wouldn't have been coming towards him at the flow of traffic rate then turned out of the blue... there would have been signs that it was about to happen.

2. By being more aware. Sitting to the side of the traffic infront rather than behind it allowing a faster escape route.
Or lane splitting to avoid being exposed.

**Phreak** · 11th November 2010, 10:23

Originally Posted by shrub

I think being attacked from all sides has probably taught him not to look for support, encouragement and guidance on KB.

Yeah, little bit. Let's just say I know who to listen to and who not to.

**onearmedbandit** · 11th November 2010, 10:29

Originally Posted by shrub

Nah, that's no fun. It's really hard for the "it's always the biker's fault" school yard bullies to feel self righteous with that approach.

Shrub, I think you are still missing the difference between 'blame', ie fault, and 'responsibility', which in this instance does not automatically mean 'fault'. It just means taking responsibility for your actions due to the ineptitude of someone else. It's no good blaming someone else, when you are the one with the paralysed arm. I say that because in particular because when I had that accident back in '97, I was told while I was in hospital that diesel had been spilled on a few of the corners around where I crashed. I honestly don't believe that it played a part in accident, but even if it had, it would've been still me riding over it. I can't go around blaming others for something that, ultimately, was my responsibility.

**Pascal** · 11th November 2010, 11:20

Originally Posted by shrub

I think being attacked from all sides has probably taught him not to look for support, encouragement and guidance on KB.

Possibly. I'm glad for this thread though. The concept of looking at even a near miss as a:

"What did I do wrong and how can I avoid that situation in the future?"

seems damn sensible to me. And whilst I think katman delivers that message with all the glee of a cactus based enema, it's a valuable message. At the end of the day, it may end up saving me from a serious injury.

**MSTRS:Me** · 11th November 2010, 11:29

Originally Posted by neels

Which kind of sums things up really, that there are any number of things you could do, but which one is right at any particular point in time? And travelling at 15/20/25 m/s it doesn't give you very long to think about it.

Yeah. Coulda, shoulda are not universal answers.

Originally Posted by Phreak

Yeah, little bit. Let's just say I know who to listen to and who not to.

Even plonkers can have useful advice...