Biker down. Yep I just got bowled...

[shrub]

Okay, so... what have I learnt from my accident last sunday?

1. Never NEVER trust any car and what it seems to be doing on the road.
2. Always keep well back from anything in front of you.
3. If someone pulls out in front of you, you are still safer to back off even more.
4. Bruises heal, and bikes are fixable. Thank God.

oh, and...

5. Not everyone's view on KB is worth the price of the internet they use to post their view.

You'll be riding a long time with that attitude

[onearmedbandit]

What am I going to do about it?

I won't be changing my behaviour, instead I'll do what I have been doing for bloody near 30 years. When I get on my bike I:

1. Don't expect car drivers to use their mirrors at all, let alone when I'm behind them.
2. Don't expect car drivers to indicate, or if they do indicate they'll do it as they start turning
3. Don't expect car drivers to see me
4. Expect car drivers to be putting more mental energy into passengers, stereos, eating pies and staring into space than into driving
5. Expect car drivers to drive as close behind me as possible
6. Expect car drivers to go through an amber light, even if the amber light is red.
7. Etc etc etc....

Which means I do shit like try and ride where they aren't, move around on the road so I'm more visible, look both ways before I take off on a green light etc etc etc.

Ah, being proactive about your riding, and your safety. One could in fact say, taking responsibility for your own safety.

What I don't do is think "most/all bike crashes are the fault of the rider and because I'm an experienced rider I'm OK".

Neither do I. But the rider at the end of the day is the one who has to be responsible for his or her own safety. Better to be, shall I say proactive about your riding and not have to blame anyone.

I don't think that because I'm wearing my leathers to ride down to the pub and have done a couple of track days, i'm OK. I may be, but being Rossi counts for nothing when the retard in front of me slams on his brakes in the wet because he dropped his pie, or swerves into my lane because little tarquin has just gouged little Siobhan's eye out, or suddenly make a right turn just as I overtake them.

If you are following someone in the wet you should be at a distance that allows you to stop safely, for whatever reason. If you are too close, that's your fault. Got an oncoming car that might veer into your lane? It's called a hazard and it's something you should be alert for anyway. Have you ever done a defensive driving course? In the one I attended many years ago power poles were considered a hazard. Not if you crashed into one that is, but if for some reason it toppled onto the road. That's right. What are the chances of that happening? Less than a car veering into your lane, yet it was still considered a hazard. Doesn't mean you have to drive/ride everywhere anticipating one falling in front of you, but it helps you identify all hazards. And as far as someone turning right while you are overtaking them, well if they are slowing that's a sign of a hazard. And not many people turn right across traffic without slowing down.

I'm alive because I recognise there are a hell of a lot of complete cretins out there, and they drive irrationally, unpredictably and dangerously. And some of them are on bikes. I also don't go on group rides with people I don't know because some people on bikes are morons.

No disagreement there.

And instead of telling young guys like Phreak that he's an idiot for making the wrong choice, I'll tell him that there are a lot of car drivers out there that are fuckwits, and if one of them does something stupid like pull out in front of you don't think that's the last stupid thing they're going to be doing.

I didn't call him an idiot. And from what I see he's posted, he's figured out that the safer option would have been not to pass.

[Luckylegs]

...Not everyone's view on KB is worth the price of the internet they use to post their view.

Jesus, we're lucky shrubs Internet ain't free then

[Kickaha]

I mean, we only have the word of an aggrieved motorcyclist who could well be simply looking for someone else to blame for his mistake.

Don't be stupid we all know motorcyclists don't make mistakes so it must have been the car drivers fault

[shrub]

Ah, being proactive about your riding, and your safety. One could in fact say, taking responsibility for your own safety.

I have been riding for just on 30 years minus about 7 years in 2 breaks, and the last off I had was in 1985. Of course I take responsibility for my own safety, and a huge part of that - possibly the biggest part, is recognising that other road users behave unpredictably and engage in behaviour that has the potential to put me at risk like, as Phreak has discovered, turning without looking or indicating. And that includes motorcyclists like luckylegs.

And no, you didn't call him an idiot - abusing him may be the fashionable thing for the playground bullies that hide behind their keyboards, but I think you're above that kind of behaviour.

The problem I have with the "all bike crashes are the fault of the rider" mindset is when you adopt that view you immediately discount a major hazard that we all face every day - low skills and dangerous driving by other road users. If Phreak didn't have the smarts to learn that, the only lesson he got from his crash would have been "don't go around a hazard, always stop", and sometimes that's not the best solution. Next time a similar thing happens, finding an escape route may be the best approach.

[onearmedbandit]

The problem I have with the "all bike crashes are the fault of the rider" mindset is when you adopt that view you immediately discount a major hazard that we all face every day - low skills and dangerous driving by other road users.

Shrub, I can only speak for myself when saying this, but I'm not saying that the motorcyclist is always at fault. What I'm saying is the motorcyclist is always responsible for their safety. What point is there in blaming someone else after an accident, except for legality reasons. It's best to avoid it completely in the first place, taking responsibility for your own safety.

Responsibility for your own safety and fault for the accident are not the same thing.

[Luckylegs]

I have been riding for just on 30 years minus about 7 years in 2 breaks, and the last off I had was in 1985. Of course I take responsibility for my own safety, and a huge part of that - possibly the biggest part, is recognising that other road users behave unpredictably and engage in behaviour that has the potential to put me at risk like, as Phreak has discovered, turning without looking or indicating. And that includes motorcyclists like luckylegs.

Haha lol. How is it that you keep saying no-one can judge phreaks crash as they wernt there yet you seem so intent on suggesting I'm a menace on the roads when you don't know me, my skill level, level of training or general attitude when riding or driving...

[shrub]

Haha lol. How is it that you keep saying no-one can judge phreaks crash as they wernt there yet you seem so intent on suggesting I'm a menace on the roads when you don't know me, my skill level, level of training or general attitude when riding or driving...

All I can go on is what you have said - that you don't look in your right hand mirror when turning right and you don't think it's as important to be aware of what's going on around you in town as on the open road.

[shrub]

Shrub, I can only speak for myself when saying this, but I'm not saying that the motorcyclist is always at fault. What I'm saying is the motorcyclist is always responsible for their safety. What point is there in blaming someone else after an accident, except for legality reasons. It's best to avoid it completely in the first place, taking responsibility for your own safety.

Responsibility for your own safety and fault for the accident are not the same thing.

I agree entirely, and a huge part of being responsible for your own safety is knowing and recognising risks. You talked about power poles doing the unexpected - falling in your path. That's never happened to me, but what has happened to me (and more often in my car than on my bike) is other road users doing the unexpected and the bizarre. There is a mindset on these boards that being responsible for your own safety is discounting the role played by other road users and that all bike crashes are the fault of the rider involved.

[Luckylegs]

All I can go on is what you have said - that you don't look in your right hand mirror when turning right and you don't think it's as important to be aware of what's going on around you in town as on the open road.

That's not what I actually said...

[Luckylegs]

18 years (driving, with a lesser number riding) and never an accident or incident turning right. Why is that shrub?

...don't disappoint me, keep your answer predictable! What ever you do

[jasonu]

Enlightened man that he is. Unlike the fucken turkeys here...

Hell, I voted for the guy. It was a good idea at the time. Won't make that mistake next time though...

[MSTRS:Me]

Hell, I voted for the guy. It was a good idea at the time. Won't make that mistake next time though...

So you like the idea of insurance companies and their shareholders getting fat off exorbitant premiums, lawyers who get fat off litigation, the whole ambulance-chasing industry, no cover for those that can't/refuse to pay, and no community responsibility for the social costs of accidents?

[jasonu]

So you like the idea of insurance companies and their shareholders getting fat off exorbitant premiums, lawyers who get fat off litigation, the whole ambulance-chasing industry, no cover for those that can't/refuse to pay, and no community responsibility for the social costs of accidents?

No, none of that is good. But his idea of makeing medical insurance compulsary and fineing those who don't have it because they can't afford it is not the solution. If they can't afford the insurance, a fine certainly won't put them in a better situation. I don't have a solution but forceing people to spend money they have not got under the threat of a fine if they don't just isn't right. Plus, he has proved through his own actions that trying to spend the countrys way out of this depression is not working. When he took over the place was already fucked from 8 years of Bush Jr, Obama hasn't helped at all and the recent election tells us the large majority has seen this. Shit, even the Aussie $ is stronger than the greenback. Things here are bleak at best and people from places like NZ cannot fully comprehend it just by watching the news.
By the way, I am a Kiwi.

[MSTRS:Me]

Ah, medical insurance...quite different from accident 'insurance', which is what I thought you meant.
ACC being groomed for sale as an insurance company...strikes at one of the foundations of NZ.