Biker down. Yep I just got bowled...

[jasonu]

Ah, medical insurance...quite different from accident 'insurance', which is what I thought you meant.

Same thing, they don't differentiate. If you visit a hospital, be prepaired to get it in the arse if you don't have insurance. They will deal with you even if you don't have insurance and will chase you later, ruin your credit and take your house and all of your shit too.
ACC being groomed for sale as an insurance company...strikes at one of the foundations of NZ.

Be sure to vote against that one.

Way off topic I know but ya get that on the big jobs...

[ynot slow]

Maybe before we give car licenses out we should make it mandatory to spend 12mths on 2 wheels,then everyone would be on lookout for riders,hazards etc,and the fact that trucks are bigger than cars and push in,cars v bikes similar.Maybe we need to have a little bit of courtesy.I will let a car into the space in front of me at intersections,but if the guy behind other car tries to cut in that pisses me off,he can pull in behind me IF the car behind me lets him etc,pretty simple,but does it happen.

[MarkH]

What your now saying, is that, when making a right turn on a sngle lane road, I am now obligated to ensure I'm not being overtaken at the same time ????

I am pretty sure that you have always been obligated to ensure you are not being overtaken before turning right. Maybe even indicate for a minimum of 3 seconds before turning as well.

I may be wrong, but I believe this is a part of the message Katman is trying to send. Believe that you are responsible for everything that happens around you, and you more likely are to be.

I'd agree that riding with that attitude is a good idea, but not necessarily with the sort of shit being slung at a rider after the accident that has been happening in this thread.

What if there was, in fact, plenty of room to have made the left hand turn in front of Phreak and the right hand turn was signaled as soon as the left turn was completed?

I mean, we only have the word of an aggrieved motorcyclist who could well be simply looking for someone else to blame for his mistake.

Sure, if we want to take the route of assuming that the OP is lying or delusional then we can logically assume that he is indeed to blame for his own misfortune.

If we went the other way and based our comments on his account being true then it is a completely different kettle of fish. My understanding of what I have read from Phreak is that a car turned into the lane in front of him and to avoid running up the rear of that car he dodged around that car into the opposite lane, where the car turned in front of him causing an accident. I would place the blame in that situation on the car driver for not indicating for 3 seconds and for not ensuring that it was safe to turn.

Ignoring blame was there anything Phreak could have done to avoid the accident? Sure - if there was enough room to brake then he could have done that instead of dodging. Or if there wasn't enough room then he could have braked and dodged - coming to a stop in the opposite lane before the car turned. Hindsight is WAY better than a riders judgement at the time, but probably not overly helpful to Phreak. This forum is great for providing hindsight and far less good for posters putting themselves in the OPs position when the shit was going down.

[Luckylegs]

...I am pretty sure that you have always been obligated to ensure you are not being overtaken before turning right. Maybe even indicate for a minimum of 3 seconds before turning as well.

...I would place the blame in that situation on the car driver for not indicating for 3 seconds and for not ensuring that it was safe to turn

Yawn... I never said anything about not indicating but anyway... If i'm driving along, see my turn ahead, check right mirror and blind spots and there is no-one in the process of overtaking me nor in my blind spot, i start indicating move to the right of my lane, slow as much as required turn. I then reach my turn and turn without a further check of the right mirror. Turns out someone has decided that despite me having clearly indicated my intentions to turn right they will pass me on the right anyway. Not withstanding who's most likely to be dead, who will be getting the traffic infringement notice?

[jafar]

Okay, so... what have I learnt from my accident last sunday?

1. Never NEVER trust any car and what it seems to be doing on the road.
Your learning !!
2. Always keep well back from anything in front of you.
Correct!! try maintaining the 2 second rule @ ALL times
3. If someone pulls out in front of you, you are still safer to back off even more.
Also correct, to the extent that it is taught in advanced driver training!!

4. Bruises heal, and bikes are fixable. Thank God.
& insurance is there for a reason PUT IN A CLAIM !!!!
(this includes ACC which you havn't paid & that helped to fix you up)

oh, and...

5. Not everyone's view on KB is worth the price of the internet they use to post their view.

Seems you have learned some valuable lessons from your little off.
Sorry to hear about your mishap but I'm also pleased you came out of it so lightly & have learned from it.

[caseye]

Shit Phreak, of all the guys to be taken out and have "thier" bike hurt. Well as has already been said, very glad you are Ok.That beauty of a motorcycle is going to look perfect again soon. Take care out there.
Keep em shiny side up mate.

[shrub]

Yawn... I never said anything about not indicating but anyway... If i'm driving along, see my turn ahead, check right mirror and blind spots and there is no-one in the process of overtaking me nor in my blind spot, i start indicating move to the right of my lane, slow as much as required turn. I then reach my turn and turn without a further check of the right mirror. Turns out someone has decided that despite me having clearly indicated my intentions to turn right they will pass me on the right anyway. Not withstanding who's most likely to be dead, who will be getting the traffic infringement notice?

It's nice to see you're not the only one who has been learning, but if your driving kills a biker you have to live with that, and if you turn right while being overtaken by a car, truck, bus or LAV3; you're fucked, especially if you're on a bike. That's why experienced riders always take that last look, just in case.

You're getting there, but a bit to go yet.

[MSTRS:Me]

Yawn... I never said anything about not indicating but anyway... If i'm driving along, see my turn ahead, check right mirror and blind spots and there is no-one in the process of overtaking me nor in my blind spot, i start indicating move to the right of my lane, slow as much as required turn. I then reach my turn and turn without a further check of the right mirror. Turns out someone has decided that despite me having clearly indicated my intentions to turn right they will pass me on the right anyway. Not withstanding who's most likely to be dead, who will be getting the traffic infringement notice?

It's nice to see you're not the only one who has been learning, but if your driving kills a biker you have to live with that, and if you turn right while being overtaken by a car, truck, bus or LAV3; you're fucked, especially if you're on a bike. That's why experienced riders always take that last look, just in case.

You're getting there, but a bit to go yet.

Years ago, at a firearms training evening, the question was asked..."When carrying your rifle, how often should you check it is safe". Everyone got it wrong.
The answer, of course, was "All the time".
Bit like "Identify your target"...

The same applies to driving/riding. Failing to ensure it is safe to proceed with a turn (or whatever) just prior to doing it, is a recipe for dead school teachers...

[shrub]

Years ago, at a firearms training evening, the question was asked..."When carrying your rifle, how often should you check it is safe". Everyone got it wrong.
The answer, of course, was "All the time".
Bit like "Identify your target"...

The same applies to driving/riding. Failing to ensure it is safe to proceed with a turn (or whatever) just prior to doing it, is a recipe for dead school teachers...

You mean things change unexpectecly and what was OK a few seconds ago might not be OK any more? No wonder you're so old.

[Pascal]

There is a mindset on these boards that being responsible for your own safety is discounting the role played by other road users and that all bike crashes are the fault of the rider involved.

I'm reading it differently. The mindset appears to be that you cannot control other road users. You must be aware, scanning and ensure that you have the ability to avoid messes. And that this could come down to simple things.

It was a quiet road from the descriptions thus far. There was no oncoming traffic. Look at the last reported position on street view - see here.

When you notice a car that has the potential to become a hazard, what do you do as a biker?

[MSTRS:Me]

You mean things change unexpectecly and what was OK a few seconds ago might not be OK any more? No wonder you're so old.

Didn't get there without collecting a few scars along the way...
To me, it is arse about face to 'check behind, indicate for 3 seconds and go'
Surely a prudent motorist of any type would 'indicate, check, go' ? As you say, a lot can happen in 3 seconds.

[shrub]

Didn't get there without collecting a few scars along the way...
To me, it is arse about face to 'check behind, indicate for 3 seconds and go'
Surely a prudent motorist of any type would 'indicate, check, go' ? As you say, a lot can happen in 3 seconds.

Sounds pretty smart to me, but that kind of behavour is a lousy way to build your scar collection. My bike has nifty mirrors that operate all the time, and given that feature no doubt cost me extra I might as well get my moneys worth and use them all the time.

[MSTRS:Me]

The scars came from getting it wrong. Whatever that might have been at the time. Some of them even came from not checking in front (traffic does stop from time to time, don't you know).
Yep, check front, back and sides - all the time. But especially as the last thing you do before turning. Don't want it to be the last thing you never did...

[Luckylegs]

Years ago, at a firearms training evening, the question was asked..."When carrying your rifle, how often should you check it is safe". Everyone got it wrong.
The answer, of course, was "All the time".
Bit like "Identify your target"...

The same applies to driving/riding. Failing to ensure it is safe to proceed with a turn (or whatever) just prior to doing it, is a recipe for dead school teachers...

You mean things change unexpectecly and what was OK a few seconds ago might not be OK any more? No wonder you're so old.

With all due respect, and of course a fairly healthy helping of Tounge (spelling) in cheek...

Now that your done with the I didnt get where I am today... type speech, can we realise that we've now done the "whats prudent" bit to death. We may or we may not agree, the question I asked was, "Who will be getting the traffic infringement notice", the turner or the overtaker?

Remember, my statement that started this, was about compulsion (not common sense).

[MSTRS:Me]

...the question I asked was, "Who will be getting the traffic infringement notice", the turner or the overtaker?

Must have missed that one...
Truth is, if I was the little man with the hat and epaulettes, I think I'd be dishing it out to the turner. Indicating does not give the automatic right to proceed without ensuring it is safe to do so.