Speed cameras don't save lives

[rustic101]

Fuckit, I'm guna top it anyway.

I hear it's entirely possible in the UK system to get pinged by them even though the average speed is well under the theoretical fastest possible. This, based on the liklihood that you exceeded the local limit at some point.

Well and truely fuckt.

O well, swings and round abouts lol.

On a separate matter had a mate get off a ticket as there was a large curtain sider in front of him when he got pinged (ok so he was passing it). The point is that the radars use Doppler wavelengths which will always seek out the largest mass, even if targeting a single veh - we (bikes) have a thin mass. Not an excuse to speed but try it on you may just get lucky

[Ocean1]

you may just get lucky

Been to court once with documented facts. Lost.

How interested are they going to be in theory?

[Scuba_Steve]

Just out of interest, what would it take to change your behaviour?

in what way? I drive "fast" but always safe, never drink drive, never excessive speed, always to conditions. I don't own any "safe" vehicles so I know I fuck up I'm fucked. I don't think my "behavior" needs to change, the law needs to become sensible & these dangerous speed scams need to stop.

[rastuscat]

I don't think my "behavior" needs to change, the law needs to become sensible & these dangerous speed scams need to stop.

Just email Newton, he'll amend the law of physics for you.

Then you'll be okay to ride at whatever speed you want and avoid the unpleasant outcomes.

When someone pulls out into your path, you'll be able to invoke the amended Newtons law, and your kinetic energy will cease to be a factor in the outcome of your encounter.

I think you can email him, he at lawofphysics@buggerallchancetochange.com

[swbarnett]

Had an argument with a woman recently about the ticket I was writing her. 67 in a 50 km/h area.

She had been travelling in the outside lane (right hand of 2), and was passing a centre island on which were standing 3 or 4 people, including 2 kids. The island was one of those pedestrian refuges, where you can cross to and wait for traffic in the other direction to clear.

What say you all?

How alert was the driver during this island pass? I'm guessing that you don't know. An alert driver doing 67 is certainly safer than a distracted driver doing 50. Do you issue tickets to distracted drivers?

[swbarnett]

Fines work for those who actually pay them

How can you tell? Just because someone has not had a ticket in a while does not mean that they've changed their behaviour. Such is the random nature of tickets.

If I get a ticket, I pay it. As it happens, I haven't had one for a couple of decades, but I've paid my wifes couple of tickets, coz that's what law abiding citizens do.

"Law abiding" people don't get tickets in the first place, by definition.

[swbarnett]

Just out of interest, what would it take to change your behaviour?

Who says it needs changing?

Just because you and he disagree on what is "safe" or "acceptable" behaviour doesn't make you right or give you or the government the right to enforce your particular point of view.

[swbarnett]

Just email Newton, he'll amend the law of physics for you.

The problem is that the laws of physics (which I am very familiar with having a physicist for a wife) are only a third of the equation. There is also the law of probability and that of observation.

I've said it before but I think it cannot be said too often.

A distracted driver at or below the speed limit is more dangerous than an alert driver over the limit but driving to the conditions.

[Scuba_Steve]

Just email Newton, he'll amend the law of physics for you.

Then you'll be okay to ride at whatever speed you want and avoid the unpleasant outcomes.

When someone pulls out into your path, you'll be able to invoke the amended Newtons law, and your kinetic energy will cease to be a factor in the outcome of your encounter.

I think you can email him, he at lawofphysics@buggerallchancetochange.com

I don't want or need the laws of physics changed, I want the laws of New Zealand changed, it is those laws that are wrong Not Newtons.
And I never said "any" speed I want, I said I travel at a Safe speed for the conditions, which yes is quite often faster than the posted speed limit but at the same time through the likes of CBD it will be well below the posted speed limit it is for the conditions, NOT to some mostly pointless sign.

[p.dath]

So - if the most moronic cops know that fines don't work, they must also realise that any type of draconian punishment as deterrent doesn't work. 'You lot' must have some better ideas. Where are they?

The 2020 roading strategy is moving towards less fines and more demerits being issued. One problem with fines is their effective impact varies wit your income ($120 fine is more severe on someone who earns $350/week versus someone who earns $1000/week). Demerits affect everyone equally, and will result in a loss of licence for consistent offenders.

Yet NZ Road Policing want to install 'Average Speed Cameras', with the blessing of AA!!!

I email the AA semi-regularly. I've seen a recent communication with the ministers. The AA DO NOT support the promotion of speed being a major cause of issues, and would not support the deployment of additional speed cameras. In fact, they are currently pushing for a reduction in speed cameras - as the AA do not believe they result in a reduction in the injury rates.

I don't know who you talk to at the AA - but it is obviously not the senior policy makers that I speak to.

[MSTRS:Me]

Fines work for those who actually pay them, which is the majority of the population. You don't hear about that in the paper, coz it's boring. If I get a ticket, I pay it. As it happens, I haven't had one for a couple of decades, but I've paid my wifes couple of tickets, coz that's what law abiding citizens do.

You just proved that they don't. Just cos the majority who get them, pay, doesn't mean they start behaving, does it? No fines for a couple of decades? Maybe you've just got cleverer so as to not get caught? Paid your wife's fine/s? Lucky her. But what's law abiding about paying someone-else's fines?

We've been campaigning for fines to be reduced and demerit points to be the principle deterrent. Annette King promised to do that, but got voted out before she could. Thus far not much has changed.

Fines without points basically mean nothing to people with lots of dosh, and equally little to those who won't pay them.

Demerit points work better, as they penalize everyone the same. They used to be for road safety things, but recently they put 10 demerits on noisy vehicle tickets. Nobody ever was killed of injured by a noisy car. Go figure.

The demerit point system has some glaring anomalies that would need to be fixed before it is properly constructed. e.g. nil demerits for a red light offence, but 10 for a noisy vehicle. Nil for seatbelt offences too. Bizarre. Fail to stop at a stop sign, 20 demerits. Random.

Demerits are prolly best.

Here's a suggestion....
Fine for non-consequential offences. Like noisy exhaust, no reg, parked facing the wrong way, no number plate light...etc
Demerits for safety related offences. Rate to be determined. But with proviso to increase for repeats of the same offence. IE - 10pts for 20kph over. 20pts for 30 over. BUT get caught speeding when you have unexpired points for speeding, double for the new offence.
No WOF? 10 points and go get a new wof. But if your vehicle fails on a real safety issue (bald tyre, poor brakes, loose steering...etc, not a windscreen chip in the wrong place, poorly aligned headlight, speedo not working...etc) then points double.
And if caught driving while disq - then straight to lock-up. One week inside. No bullshit extra fine, etc.
Oh - and no donuts for cops on duty. All that sugar is bad for your concentration.

[cowboyz]

If I get a ticket, I pay it. As it happens, I haven't had one for a couple of decades, but I've paid my wifes couple of tickets, coz that's what law abiding citizens do.

funny!

So from a cop perpective you are saying that it is possible for law abiding citizens to get tickets??

[rastuscat]

Sssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh...........the wife's listening.

[Berries]

The AA DO NOT support the promotion of speed being a major cause of issues, and would not support the deployment of additional speed cameras. In fact, they are currently pushing for a reduction in speed cameras - as the AA do not believe they result in a reduction in the injury rates.

Funny that, I used to have dealings with the local AA branch through work,and they were all drivers, ie in to their cars as much as we are riders. Any time discussion came up about speed cameras they were often on the different side of the fence to the Police.

[kinger]

.......if your vehicle fails on a real safety issue (bald tyre, poor brakes, loose steering...etc, not a windscreen chip in the wrong place, poorly aligned headlight,,,,,,.

Wouldn't you consider being dazzled in heavy rain by an oncoming poorly aligned headlight a safety issue?