Too many classes at National Championship?

[scott411]

my personal opinion is that along with the MX nationals and the Sx nationals, is as long as they are run by a committee they will continue to be average, until a series organinser, or a dreaded "promoter" is put in charge, and allowed to have a go at improving the series, and given the leeway to make some drastic changes then we will be destined to continue to have average series,

[wharfy]

if you want less classes, are you willing to pay 50% more entry fees ?

For the National classes the entry fees are not the major expense transport,accommodation,tyres, repairs (if your unlucky) are the biggies.

While the idea of a "series" is partly to test teams ability to set up for different conditions, partly to remove the "luck" factor and partly (at least once upon a time) to allow locals the chance to watch. The first two could be accomplished by having a three round series alternating between the North and South Islands each year. The locals don't come to watch anyway as far as I can tell.

Perhaps even a two week "Carnival" alternating between Islands. I think most racers in NZ would find it easier to get two weeks of work at the end of February and set up for a fortnight at one track than have to have two or three days a week spread over a month and a half All the resources for promotion could be concentrated as well

Currently the top two classes get ten races (two at each round) I'm pretty sure if the whole thing was at one track they could get 20 or more (if run at a track without time restrictions) and you raced on a couple of week days as well that would allow you to be able to drop your worst couple of races, so a DNF (for whatever reason) would not spell the end of your series chances.


Admittedly the riders would be knackered after two weeks of solid racing and practice but they are knackered now with traipsing around the county...

I have never done the Nationals but have done the Tri-Series (twice) and the biggest hassle was getting there and back for each round.

[CHOPPA]

my personal opinion is that along with the MX nationals and the Sx nationals, is as long as they are run by a committee they will continue to be average, until a series organinser, or a dreaded "promoter" is put in charge, and allowed to have a go at improving the series, and given the leeway to make some drastic changes then we will be destined to continue to have average series,

I have to agree Scotty. The attitude of (some) of the people that run the meetings is absolutely appalling. Its costs us riders tens of thousands of dollars to compete and the organisers have the attitude well we are not making any money so we dont give a f#$k how the meeting runs. If you dont like it go home and we are volunteers we cant be expected to do our jobs properly attitude is not right. I would have the same attitude if I were doing it out of the goodness of my heart and people starting winging as well so I dont really blame them id like to see them getting paid because no matter what the riders do to come at this game with a professional approach it doesnt change anything if the organisers are not professional.

Im just comparing the diff between the professionally run Tri Series to the Nationals. Id love to see a professional promoter get hold of it.

When im done racing I will do my bit on the other side of the fence

[Kickaha]

my personal opinion is that along with the MX nationals and the Sx nationals, is as long as they are run by a committee they will continue to be average, until a series organinser, or a dreaded "promoter" is put in charge, and allowed to have a go at improving the series, and given the leeway to make some drastic changes then we will be destined to continue to have average series,

That idea has been suggested before and I personally think it's a good one but I'm not sure you'd find a promoter willing to take it on

[javawocky]

... the simple fact is Streetstock or similar is not what Jo Public come to see...

Streetstocks should be limited to Club meetings as well as Clubmans.

Side[cars] - I have seen sidecar racing at Silverstone with fields of probably 20+ and its probably the most exciting racing I have seen. We respect to the boys and girls that do it here, sorry its a yawn feast when 5-7 'cars' circulate at vastly different speeds.

Chook Chasers - Don't look now, but they are probably the biggest fields and are a major crowd pleaser. Just run the 450 < and 450 > in the same class, unlike W[h]anganui

So, my pick for classes...
F1 - Super and Stock
F2 - Super and Stock
F3 - And GP 125 if numbers are low
Motards
Posties / Bears - if there is time.

[CHOPPA]

The feeder classes like the 150s have to stay imo

[scott411]

That idea has been suggested before and I personally think it's a good one but I'm not sure you'd find a promoter willing to take it on

you are right, that is why i put a series organiser in as well, i think that on both sides of the sport they people that make the rules, (the comission) also run the series, and i think it needs to seperated, it is to much for one group to do,

MNZ is about making events fun safe and fair, which is why it is there, i think it is a different challange to make the event marketable,

[scott411]

The feeder classes like the 150s have to stay imo

agree with you there choppa, esp now with a pathway to the world superbikes support class as well, although the 150's will be phased out with the pro lite 250 twins taking over as time goes by with bike availablilty etc

[TLR luva]

Here's a topic that most likely has already been talked about before but after this weekend gone I think it warrants another look.

I have always found it strange that both Superbikes/Superstock 1000 and 600 Sport/Stock only get two races per national round? It is a massive commitment for most people involved in getting to these events for 40min of racing at the most. For us, we get to the track about a week before the race to setup bikes and get some practice in for the race, so this involves expenses of gas, tires, trackday fees, accommodation, food plus many more expenses. The question has to be asked, is it worth it...esspecially for the rounds that get no TV coverage for the sponsors that pay for much of this? It seems Invercargil suffers from average weather at the best of times come the National Rounds, which makes the trip even less attractive for people traveling from the North Island when the meeting is canceled. I realize it was unforseeable and the cancellation of the round was most definately the correct option but this is not the point I'm making (I digress). I would say the same applies to the South Island racers coming up for the Hampton Downs round applies equally.

The point is...why do we need clubmans, supermotards, streetstock, sidecars, etc at national rounds taking up time AT THE EXPENSE OF THE PREMIER CLASSES?

In my opinion (and it is only my opinion) I think it should be 125cc or 250cc (new class), Pro Twins / F3, 600 Superstock/sport, and Superbike/Stock allowing more races throughout the day for these classes. It would be nice to be on track before 9.30am at every meeting too...

I have always found it strange that the two classes that most 'jo public' come to see only get two races throughout the weekend, whereas many other minor classes get three (even if they are shorter races).

Thoughts?

Biggles.

Interesting, some of the clubmans werent to far off your time mate, so if you are in the premium class and some clubmans riders are only marginally slower why should they get dropped from competing, they can still get round ok. Personally I like all classes as long as the competition is close and exciting to watch. Having premium class riders getting lapped is not very interesting to me.

[Kickaha]

MNZ is about making events fun safe and fair, which is why it is there, i think it is a different challange to make the event marketable,

This wasn't really about making it marketable it was about rearranging the classes so certain classes got more racing

The feeder classes like the 150s have to stay imo

Definitely, it is very good experience for them to run at these events

Interesting, some of the clubmans werent to far off your time mate, so if you are in the premium class and some clubmans riders are only marginally slower why should they get dropped from competing,

Don't be mean to Marcus he would have got 6th in F3 (on a 600 at levels)

[wharfy]

I have to agree Scotty. The attitude of the people that run the meetings is absolutely appalling. Its costs us riders tens of thousands of dollars to compete and the organisers have the attitude well we are not making any money so we dont give a f#$k how the meeting runs. If you dont like it go home and we are volunteers we cant be expected to do our jobs properly attitude is not right. I would have the same attitude if I were doing it out of the goodness of my heart and people starting winging as well so I dont really blame them id like to see them getting paid because no matter what the riders do to come at this game with a professional approach it doesnt change anything if the organisers are not professional.

Im just comparing the diff between the professionally run Tri Series to the Nationals. Id love to see a professional promoter get hold of it.

When im done racing I will do my bit on the other side of the fence

There is a bit of truth in there Choppa, I have been involved (in a small way) with running two National rounds and it was a shit load of work for a small number of people and the club lost money each time. We tried really hard to make it run as smooth as possible (and didn't do to badly I think) but we didn't have the money or the energy to do it this year (good on PMCC for picking it up)


Yeah, the Tri-Series people did do a pretty good job - they even listened to some of the feedback from the previous year about Whanganui ( I don't suppose there will ever be enough dunny's with that many people eating junk food and drinking Tui )

It would be interesting to see if the Tri-Series people would be keen on running the Nationals if they were given the chance. I'm guessing they lost money at HD and Manfield and can't see how they could make money from the Nationals in the current format.
But hey - I'm not a promoter

[Shorty_925]

(good on PMCC for picking it up)

You sure about that one?

[k14]

Having raced at the nationals isnt a prerequisite to having a brain

I dont think Im ignorant on it really, I dont profess to know everything, but I do know that the event is costly and from that prohibitive to alot of riders, I also know that the event is not exactly high on the agendas for the general populas to go and see..............boring ? not much of a show? maybe, but certainly the current mold is not what I would call good, or anywhere near it.
The event can be alot better than it currently is, the numbers are NOT there, spectators numbers are pathetic and the actual "show" is far from attracting decent numbers of people to enable greater sponsorship opportunities.
Until Radical changes are made the NZ Nationals will continue to be a bit of a bore it will continue to attract low spectator numbers and fields that are hit and miss year on year.

Do any of you on the opposing view point ever complain about not getting any sponsorship? do you know why you arent getting sponsorship, the reason is Bike racing is NOT a popular activity for the general population (the Mum and Dad and the Kids) to go and see, hence the events do not attract money from sponsors, the "SHOW" is all wrong, you are competing with many other opportunities for the public to spend their dollar and you are rarely even getting in the choice set................Bring the show the people will come, get the people the dollars will come...............stick to the current same ole boring model and you will keep getting the same outcomes, no people, no money, no sponsorship


Lastly do some of you think that Buckets should be in the Nationals as well ? we can also perhaps ad the Vespa guys they love a good race, where do you want to stop?

Sorry if it was strongly worded (or "abrasive") but I don't think you do have a full understanding of the racing scene in NZ. Your comment about buckets was flippant and uninformed. Some bikes have more work put into them than stroud or bugdens bikes put together. Go along to a bucket meet one day and you will see some of the good ones, along with bad ones. As you sometimes see at nationals. And no I would be very surprised if anyone wanted buckets at nationals

I used to get a little disappointed about not getting sponsorship but now days I am resigned to the fact that I won't get anything significant. To be honest I have decided to give up racing after this year partly due to the fact that the nationals are such a shambles. Due to being a shift worker I have had to take more than 3/4 of my annual leave just to compete at the SI rounds. For a small country it is too cumbersome for the racers to expect them to take all their leave just to race in January and March.

As I have said in previous threads about this topic, reduce it to 4 rounds (2 north and 2 south). Make the Hampton and Ruapuna rounds compulsory and one of the other two optional (Levels and Manfeild could alternate with Teretonga and Taupo). The competitors points from Hampton and Ruapuna count and then one of the others. So if you do all 4 rounds you get to drop the worst one. If you only want to commit to three rounds, do the two in your island and then Ruapuna or Hampton in the other island.

[Quasievil]

Sorry if it was strongly worded (or "abrasive") but I don't think you do have a full understanding of the racing scene in NZ. Your comment about buckets was flippant and uninformed. Some bikes have more work put into them than stroud or bugdens bikes put together. Go along to a bucket meet one day and you will see some of the good ones, along with bad ones. As you sometimes see at nationals. And no I would be very surprised if anyone wanted buckets at nationals

I used to get a little disappointed about not getting sponsorship but now days I am resigned to the fact that I won't get anything significant. To be honest I have decided to give up racing after this year partly due to the fact that the nationals are such a shambles. Due to being a shift worker I have had to take more than 3/4 of my annual leave just to compete at the SI rounds. For a small country it is too cumbersome for the racers to expect them to take all their leave just to race in January and March.

As I have said in previous threads about this topic, reduce it to 4 rounds (2 north and 2 south). Make the Hampton and Ruapuna rounds compulsory and one of the other two optional (Levels and Manfeild could alternate with Teretonga and Taupo). The competitors points from Hampton and Ruapuna count and then one of the others. So if you do all 4 rounds you get to drop the worst one. If you only want to commit to three rounds, do the two in your island and then Ruapuna or Hampton in the other island.

Dude this is KB, I been since 2003 lol

Maybe Flippant and uninformed, but from a Marketing perspective please sell me the idea about watchin Buckets going around the tracks the nationals go.............................have a go !!! I doubt you will inspire me to come, frankly I couldnt imagine a more boring form of motorsport.

Sell a show, a real show something for Dad Mum and the Kids, make a spectacle, crowds will come and with it corporate interest, then money will come to the racers
and youre woes will be over my freind.

didnt I sponsor you something a while ago ?

[wharfy]

You sure about that one?

Not really - somebody did - maybe Manawatu-Orion ?

Do you know ?