Too many classes at National Championship?

[rat]

I suppose I can sorta see where RAT is coming from..... If there were no rules on the superbike class and suzuki turned up with a moto gp bike for Andrew to ride it would make me re think my entry to the class.... No I cant beat Andrew even on standard equipment but it is (tecnically) possible, with him on a GP bike no chance!!

Cheers Choppa,

Your looking at most people with 5k- 10k budget the odd one with double that to spend on a bike, compared to one person spending over 150k on a bike.

And the above is as close as you can get to it in the two wheel world.

[Kickaha]

Yes you have a excellent point someone is just paying a half doz people so he can claim to be NZ #1

Paying 1/2 doz people? not quite sure where you get that from, pulled out of your arse most likely

when there is no class competition out there against him. They all went club and classic racing.

Club racing? what a joke you could barely put 6 sidecars on the grid for the Vic club rounds hence why they won't have them back this year

Yeah fuck the sidecars out of the Nationals then see what sandpit he has to play in.

You ought to be careful what you wish for any loss of opportunity to race a sidecar isn't a good thing

More than that dude!

More than that? yeah that's why you had so many at Vic club when he wasn't there and why the rounds run with AMCC had such good numbers attending

Why is there this "Fuck Mr Bron, he's fucked our championship and we're not playing anymore." opinion? I genuinely do not get it. I see a guy that wanted to win, so he threw what he could at winning. If I had the wallet I'd do exactly the same thing.

So would I, don't know that many people who wouldn't actually, althoug it seems a lot of people would rather we ran around on 20+ year old shitters

Unless someone can tell me otherwise, I'm assuming that we have a very smelly case of "Tall Poppy Syndrome" within the sidecar ranks. Am I wrong?

Pretty much on the button

We sidecar racers are such a small minority of motorcyle racing in NZ that when you throw so much money at going fast in a straight line to beat your oposition, that it stops being competitive.

Going fast in a straight line? possibly a few years back that might have been right but not for the last 2-3

But in reallity no one wants to waste money on the Nationals for nothing, Hence everyone has left the sandpit to have fun again elsewhere (club racing and classics).

Fuck I have to laugh everytime I read that bit about leaving to go club racing (or classics)as it's such obvious bullshit, it took someone other than the NZSRA to even organise some club racing with Vic club and then it was so poorly supported you lot up there threw away the chance to make it a regular thing

Thanks very much to those who did make the effort to enter them

But the point is that is often missed ...why spend shit loads having mid field battles at nationals when you can half your budget and go classic or club racing and have the same ammount of fun.

There it goes again Classic or club racing, fuck I haven't laughed so much in ages

Umm, if the rest of the guys who used to run the nationals were there, we might not have circulated by ourselves.

Exactly and it's became more about everything else than about the racing and there's a lot of people to fucking stupid to see how much damage they're doing the class by not turning up

why are they not racing for the sake of racing?

Fuck knows because at the end of the day that's why I am there

I wonder why there isn't a short/long outfit separation on the points anyway. Run them together and everyone wins. Perhaps do it in house in conjunction with the nats so the long chair guys don't have to try and find six to run every meeting cos I dunno if that'd happen.

That was run 5? years ago with the NZ champs although I think it was Tier1/Tier2 so guys on older gear could have a chance at a trophy

isn't the idea that long chairs are better on big circuits (faster) and short on tighter or are they supposed to be run seperate?

Overseas short bikes are normally F2/600cc, long bikes F1/1000cc and yes there's meant to be advantages on shorter tighter tracks for short bikes, here we run F1/1000cc short bikes as well and I still think a good one of those (only really one in the country) in the right hands would give the top LCR a hurry up

[rat]

Guys there are plenty of other underlying personal reasons that Sidecar teams dont do the nationals at the moment and I have only been generalising about what I feel could be the main reason.

Some of these reasons are stronly affected by what MNZ have done to the class (or not done).

But the sidecar Association is still strong and are running a very good club series that give teams plenty of racing, and will only get stronger over the next year now that the club has a new direction away from MNZ and the Nationals.
(But this is my Opinion only)

Thanks.

Yeah Kick Tier 2 is still running ,and is a club trophy as it always has been not a National trophy.
Also you keep saying about the vic club series, winter series dont work and never will for sidecars, you have been around long enough to know this Kick.

[Kickaha]

Some of these reasons are strongly affected by what MNZ have done to the class (or not done).

Some blatant misrepresentation of what happened with the Timaru truck meeting by a senior MNZ official would have a lot to do with that and even when he was given the true facts regarding it choose to totally ignore them

now that the club has a new direction away from MNZ and the Nationals.
(But this is my Opinion only)

Personally I think that would be a big mistake to have an end to a Sidecar National championship with MNZ and also think that pulling the affiliation with MNZ was also a mistake especially as it was done without consultation of all the membership

Although currently the NZSRA seem to pretty selective with which members they choose to keep informed

I also seriously doubt that going in "another direction" will be as easy as some people seem to think

Also you keep saying about the vic club series, winter series dont work and never will for sidecars, you have been around long enough to know this Kick.

No reason at all that a winter series can't work for sidecars apart from the apathy of those that choose not to support it

Winter series have worked quite well down here for sidecars in previous years I can't see why it should be so much different "up Norf"

[Billy]

Clearly us sidecar types are taking this a bit more personally than any other factions.

Numbers of entries in all classes is what will ultimately bring the punters, and the promotion thereof.

I know people who have never ridden bikes that watch the superbikes because of how spectacular it is. Those same people don't watch the GP because it looks less exciting.

Double the piss poor numbers on the superbike grid and advertise it as 'a scrap till the death, between NZ's best and feature riders from abroad', and Joe public will come with no other motive than Kiwi pride.

Sidecars can be advertised similarly, and raise cash to bring a couple dirty Ausies over to compete. Long and short outfits so everyone can play in the same sandpit, just with different friggin toys.

Just a thought, trying to stay positive so I don't upset Shaun.

Absolutely on the money,Without competitors there is no spectacle!!

As pointed out by Oyster (Peter Jones) its vital the youngsters (lifeblood of the sport) are given the chance too be out with their idols and show their crafts to potential sponsors and besides that the streetstock class runs with the Prolite 250 class which is a National championship class and therefore deserves as much track time as any other,

I can however see the merit in dropping or atleast limiting the track time afforded any class not running as a National championship at these meetings,IE maybe just the 1 race for Motards and clubmans each on the Saturday only and maybe running only 2 races for each Championship class per round.

Notably at round 1 this year there were 9 entries in Supersport 600 and 8 in Prolite 250 (Its first year as a championship class),One of these classes is set to double in size for next year,Can you guess which one ????

This thread smacks of the same old experts with VERY limited experience that think they have it all worked out but never stick their necks out and show us all how to do it better,Thought there was another website that all the knowledge had gone to,Guess not eh!!!

[oyster]

I noticed, as did a few others, that the latest version of the AMCC Champ round at Hampton Downs excludes Streetstock 150. So I e-mailed them up and they explained they kinda forgot etc. So it IS STILL ON for the 150's at this meeting, they'll run with Prolite of course. Get the word out to the keen ones looking to ride an awesome (I assume it is!) track

[chrispy121]

[QUOTE=rat;1129990436]
Some of these reasons are stronly affected by what MNZ have done to the class (or not done).

But the sidecar Association is still strong and are running a very good club series that give teams plenty of racing, and will only get stronger over the next year now that the club has a new direction away from MNZ and the Nationals.
(But this is my Opinion only)

so if side cars have a new direction away from MNZ why are we even discussing why they should be at Nationals? They should go set up their own nationals.


just a question

[Drew]

Some of these reasons are stronly affected by what MNZ have done to the class (or not done).

But the sidecar Association is still strong and are running a very good club series that give teams plenty of racing, and will only get stronger over the next year now that the club has a new direction away from MNZ and the Nationals.
(But this is my Opinion only)

so if side cars have a new direction away from MNZ why are we even discussing why they should be at Nationals? They should go set up their own nationals.


just a question

Because the sidecar guys can't get their shit in one fuckin sock.

Whatever the reasons for the split in the sidecar scene, I can't help but feel very few of them can see the damage it's doing to the sport.

It is a motorcycle based machine, so I think it should run at bike events, and the nationals is the best stage for it.

They are so much fun, and such a challenge to ride, that if we had our shit together we could get more new people into it.

[Nonbeliever]

now that the club has a new direction away from MNZ and the Nationals.

I'd say at least 90% of spectators at the nationals can only hope and pray this happens, seriously.

[Kickaha]

so if side cars have a new direction away from MNZ why are we even discussing why they should be at Nationals? They should go set up their own nationals.
just a question

Because the NZSRA doesn't represent all the people racing sidecars and doesn't even represent all it's members

I'd say at least 90% of spectators at the nationals can only hope and pray this happens, seriously.

Going by the amount of people we have visit our pits over a weekend I would seriously doubt that figure would be even close

[scracha]

The board of MNZ is discussing the idea of starting a riders forum at the conference this year in Palmy North, the idea is the riders meet, discuss/argue and then attend the Road Race Workshop with ONE voice (not everyone throwing in 2

Road riders forum or all disciplines? Where do the riders meet? Surely each area and class should have representaton for this meet.

The other idea to try and make it worthwhile for racers to actually attend the conference and be part of the solution is to have interesting and relevant speakers on such topics as suspension, nutrition etc etc that would be relevant to NATIONAL level racers.
Last year only 1 National level road racer attended the conference!

Why should only the "nationals level" riders (whatever they are) be the focus at these workshops? What's MNZ doing for the MAJORITY of its road racing members?

How about the NZRRC been 6-7 rounds but spread over 7-8 months so as to ease the burden on cash flow, time from work, time away from home/family, recovery time when good times go bad, major bike repairs etc etc. I know ultimately it will cost a few more $$ but its more affordable spread out and easier on everyone.

More affordable spread out....most competitors have credit cards and whopping big bank loans so in terms of cash-flow it makes sod all difference. It'll cost shedloads more in terms of both cash and time off work. The exact opposite is required. Bang in all the rounds as quickly as possible. I'm talking first weekend Teretonga, mid-week, Levels, 2nd weekend Ruapuna, mid-week Manfield, 3rd weekend Hampton Downs. Far easier on competitors, support crew and even dedicated spectators. Would attract more foreign riders too

[Kickaha]

mid-week, Levels

That's been put to MNZ before and they weren't interested

Bang in all the rounds as quickly as possible. I'm talking first weekend Teretonga, mid-week, Levels, 2nd weekend Ruapuna, mid-week Manfield, 3rd weekend Hampton Downs. Far easier on competitors, support crew and even dedicated spectators. Would attract more foreign riders too

I would disagree i wouldn't want to do so many meetings in such a short time I'd rather a break between North and South of at least a month

[lostinflyz]

More affordable spread out....most competitors have credit cards and whopping big bank loans so in terms of cash-flow it makes sod all difference. It'll cost shedloads more in terms of both cash and time off work. The exact opposite is required. Bang in all the rounds as quickly as possible. I'm talking first weekend Teretonga, mid-week, Levels, 2nd weekend Ruapuna, mid-week Manfield, 3rd weekend Hampton Downs. Far easier on competitors, support crew and even dedicated spectators. Would attract more foreign riders too

no way. Its almost a full time job trying to keep organised between the meetings to keep everything up to spec and moving forward. People get pretty burned out after the 3 weekends in a row down south, imagine 3 solid weeks of riding.

and if you had a crash that required greater repairs than you could do at the track that would be the end of any hope you had at nats. It'd greatly increase costs as you'd have to carry a spare everything, or at a minimum a spare bike.

not to mention its alot harder to arrange 3 straight weeks off work than it is to arrange a week or two and a couple of fridays ect.

Its a rock and hard place problem really, its either 3 weekends in a row, or 2 trips down, neithers ideal but thats life.

[Shaun]

Because the sidecar guys can't get their shit in one fuckin sock.

Whatever the reasons for the split in the sidecar scene, I can't help but feel very few of them can see the damage it's doing to the sport.

It is a motorcycle based machine, so I think it should run at bike events, and the nationals is the best stage for it.

They are so much fun, and such a challenge to ride, that if we had our shit together we could get more new people into it.

NZSRA comes across as a total bunch of tossers that just stroke each others things


It must be getting done in a CONSTRUCTIVE way though, as they are so clever

[Drew]

I'd say at least 90% of spectators at the nationals can only hope and pray this happens, seriously.

Everyone gets it, you have no time for sidecars, thankfully only a fraction of the people you think share your view, actually do.