Motorcycle Safety Advisory Council (Ex Motorcycle Safety Levy Establishment Group)

[Mom]

As to the AA's position on the levy - yeah that was the tin top fraternity talking. It surprised the AA head office that there are at least 14000 of its members (and I think this is very conservative) that own motorbikes. It is my aim to ram that point home and get the AA more in tune with a wider set of road users. It might make me unpopular at times but I'm used to that.

So why then would Nick Smith want to head up a council set up to administer funds collected unfairly from motorcyclists, specifically targetting safety for bikers, with the head of an organisation that has told me in as many words, as long as it is good for the majority of road users (car drivers) that is all AA need to be concerned about.

I understand you can't talk for the minister, but appreciate the fact that there are a large number of us out here very, very unhappy with what is going on.

[bogan]

The fact that it is wrong that the general public and TPTB should form their opinion of motorcyclists based on 10% (I believe it's higher than that) does not change the fact that that is exactly what happens.

Thank you captain obvious

So back to the McSAC, there's a bunch of people who's aim is to work out the best way to spend our money. I got no problem with that, those currently appointed will almost certainly do a better job than the other options, the problem I have is the establishment of this sets precedent for bikers paying for their own safety measures and campaigns. How long before funding applications that were previously approved from the ACC general fund have to go through the MSL accounts? how long until those accounts are unable to fund what was previously funded? how long before they raise the levy?

Perhaps people see their participation in the McSAC as an approval of the MSL. Maybe if those members on the group who are opposed to a motorcycle only safety levy say so openly, they will save themselves a lot of grief.

[Mom]

Displaying ignorance here.

Go and read what the MCSAC is for.

IT'S NOT FOR FUCKING HI-VIS VESTS.

I would suggest the bits to read out of that are:

motorcycle training, road design improvements, signage and general road user education

Please stop shouting.

[Katman]

how long before they raise the levy?

That is why I haven't gotten behind any of the motorcycling organisations to any great degree.

I believe they are all still barking up the wrong tree and refusing to acknowledge the base problem that has brought us to the brink we currently face.

All we're hearing is "it's not fair" and "you're picking on us".

I'm not hearing any motorcycling organisation saying "Oi, you lot, pull your fucking heads in and stop having accidents (and riding in the manner of an accident waiting to happen)".

I'm hearing it from individuals (even Ixion would say it often enough - but never with his BRONZ hat on) but it's not until we start hearing it from organisations that TPTB might start to take seriously the fact that some of us are trying to bring about a change.

[MrKiwi]

So why then would Nick Smith want to head up a council set up to administer funds collected unfairly from motorcyclists, specifically targetting safety for bikers, with the head of an organisation that has told me in as many words, as long as it is good for the majority of road users (car drivers) that is all AA need to be concerned about.

I understand you can't talk for the minister, but appreciate the fact that there are a large number of us out here very, very unhappy with what is going on.

It's easy to be unhappy with a lot of things...

[phill-k]

It's easy to be unhappy with a lot of things...

Mate and I say that loosely their is a lot of bullshit on KB but this is a serious thread about a subject that pisses a lot of us off, you have identified yourself as both a member of the group as well as the de facto AA man so please show us respect in this thread and answer the questions put or just remain silent, open a new thread if you want to indulge in a bit of bullshit but not here as you do the group you are on no service.

[Flip]

Fuck me reading through this I thought I was on PommyBiker.

[Smifffy]

It's easy to be unhappy with a lot of things...

Just remember that when you are trying to drum up support from bikers for some of the 'initiatives' you decide to drop the $$ on.

Of course you guys are appointed now, and bikers don't have to like it, as long as Nick does.

[Jantar]

..., I ignored set protocols in regards to 'public press releases' and the post I made could have been seen as that due to the public nature of this forum.

I meant well, and none of what I posted is not available at request from ACC anyway but I stepped on a few toes by jumping the gun and thats what I did wrong

You didn't do anything wrong. If such protocols exist then that goes against the very essence of an open motorcycle safety policy. As soon as the idea that nothing can be said publicly without going through protocols then the whole scheme is rendered as being a coverup.

[Mom]

Apologies for revisiting some stuff, but I simply could not help myself really

I hope THIS post dont get me sacked...because there is no guarantee anyone from BRONZ will ever get on this council - we are all individual appointees

Dont worry about it if you are sacked. You have told us time and time again that the people on the council are BIKERS and are for BIKERS. You of all people should be comfortable with NOT being on the council.

I think we can accept it as Gospel now. The members of the MSLC are bound by a confidentiality agreement not to discuss anything that is said in their meetings. Oh that it took so long.

I should have said oh that is has to come via official channels I guess.

Don't need a 1300 for that...

My thoughts on the MSAC being paid are....

1. We knew this would be the case.

and

2. He who pays the piper, calls the tune.

I've said it before. Ministerial appointee or paid employee - makes no difference - they will do what the minister wants. Or they are out.

Whilst the idea of a motorcyclist-run safety council might be good, the reality is the whole thing is a crock, and with AA involvement it just got worse.

Apparently it came as a HUGE shock they were going to be paid

And apparently they can say what they like outside of the council. The minister has accepted that they will not be stopped voicing opinion about the levies or anything else.

TBH if what you posted steps on the toes of the communication committee member, then the communications committee member is doing a piss poor job, since yours is the only communication I've seen, and I've been on the lookout.

If I am wrong, and there is a wealth of information out there that has been communicated by the communications committee member, are you able to point me in the correct direction. 'Go ask ACC' is not a valid response to this question.

Thanks

I am regisitered with them to get updates, I have had NONE. They are not allowed to talk about anything that is said in their meetings.

I am NOT on the 'communications working group'
I am on the PROJECTS working group - also I was told to not speak of other councillors in this forum as it makes things difficult in the workings of the group - and thats a fair point.

If you want to see the minutes contact ACC and ask for them

Nothing in this is secret


Nothing in this is 'do what Nick says' and I for one am tired of the jealousy and foolish suspicion on these forums, especially from one such person who asked me for direct access to the MSL group, and I am sick of being nice about it to be honest

So, Nothing in this is secret, Nothing in this is 'do what Nick says'.

ACC's website is not totally up to date matey, after all its less than a week since we met!

Yet you tell us to go there for up to date information.

I said e-mail them or maybe ring them, I cant state any more on whats happening here as its not my specific duty to do so, and I wont tread on my colleagues toes again.

So who is the communications guru of the counci?. Tell us so he can take the heat not you

Sorry I canot provide more, all I can say is the members of this council are on YOUR side, period. I have NO more to say

I am in a situation thats simply un winnable.
I am not the formal communications appointee so its outside my scope, and I can only ask you all to trust those appointed because they also are, like you, BIKERS first last and foremost.

So these people are on our side, and we simply HAVE to trust them. O-KAY got that, not sure if it will ever happen but...

I'm sure they will setup a mailing list anyway.

Yeah they will set it up for certain, or say they have.

I noticed that Kiwibiker forum is for all bikers so that is why I am here. *snuip* But while we have the levy in place I’d to think we can heavily influence what it is used for.

You mean to say, you were told to join up and make your presence known as a biker first and foremost, despite the fact that you are #2 choice for Nick Smith, as it was recognised that Mike Noon would have really brought the wrath of bikers to the lap of Government. Dont be so sure that your appointment wont do the same.

Which takes me back to the questions I posed at the start of this bloody thread.
Who is representing who? In what capacity? And should they be getting paid?
Kin head hurts

Despite the protestations to the contrary each and every one of them have an agenda mate. Dont be fooled. There are a few that genuinely believe they are doing this for the right reasons, there are others doing it to advance themselves along their chosen path. Some of them are in it for the long hours, and the piss poor pay, and the genuine desire to make things right for bikers in NZ, some of them are there so they can say they are, and some are there by defauly as the first choices were not acceptable/palatable.

Some of us did not come down in the last shower, and while we are accused of being ranting lunatics, we hold valid opinions. It inspires me to keep going when I am met with the kind of feed back this thread has engendered

[Smifffy]

You didn't do anything wrong. If such protocols exist then that goes against the very essence of an open motorcycle safety policy. As soon as the idea that nothing can be said publicly without going through protocols then the whole scheme is rendered as being a coverup.

Hear hear!!

+1

[NONONO]

It's easy to be unhappy with a lot of things...

Erm...Well.
Still no answer from Mr Kiwi, surely not John Keys Biker Nome De Plume?
I ask again, as I have asked time and again, and was the reason for this thread.
Do you represent The AA on the MSAC in an official capacity?

And Katman., why not troll some place else and let us ask the hard questions, rather than the limp dick nonsense? Midget.

[NONONO]

Given the level of confusion, slight of hand and attempts by certain Midgets to take this off topic, I had a word with a mate in legal circles.
She suggested I push this up to the Charities Commission and a Parliamentary Sub Committee as well, also suggested a couple of names from the Harald and the Dom....
Lets have a word shall we?
Still with us MrKiwi?

[NONONO]

MrKiwi?
Erm.....Hello?......MrKiwi?

[Mom]

MrKiwi?
Erm.....Hello?......MrKiwi?

He is off taking advice

No, got that wrong. He is off advising the communication committee that they need to formulate a response. No doubt we should get one next week. Afterall, the question has been asked tonight and they have to "consider" their response via their communications approved channel. Oh wait, it may take 2 weeks :waiting:

:waiting: seems to be MIA So I will settle for