Secret abortions for under 18s? Good shit.

[avgas]

Irrespective, mate, it's killing a human being in the most inhumane ways. It is cruel and barbaric and turns my stomach to read how it is done.

My theory in life if there is something I don't like, and it does not affect me.......I don't read about it.

It is a clear cut scientific procedure. Not an emotional one. If not a person doing it.....chances are there machines that could do it.
There are plenty of decisions out there that are just as cold and calculating. But likewise there are also plenty of other ways to save life than prevent abortion.

If you deal with dead people, better the ones you don't know than the ones you do.

[Ender EnZed]

Here's an attachment about abortion that many may not know about.

"Abortion medically"? You're not suggesting this is an unbiased presentation of facts are you?

It is cruel and barbaric and turns my stomach to read how it is done.

Any meat in that stomach? If so, do you ever consider what the death of an animal you're eating was like?

[Edbear]

"Abortion medically"? You're not suggesting this is an unbiased presentation of facts are you?

Any meat in that stomach? If so, do you ever consider what the death of an animal you're eating was like?

The facts are the facts, you make up your own mind if that is an acceptable form of killing a human being. And you are suggesting that humans are no more than animals to be killed for convenience? Would you like that kind of death for yourself, at someone else's convenience?

Have you seen the uproar over how animals are killed and the need to do so in the most "humane" way possible? Animals are killed for food nad when done so is done as humanley as possible by law. Try getting the abortion methods approved for the death of animals and see how far you get. You don't care that people are murdered in the most inhumane way possible?

[Ender EnZed]

I'm one of the least religious people in the world but it's interesting that there are such a number of people here that don't believe in the sanctity of life.

I'm not saying that I'm the sort of guy that wouldn't have shot Osama, but I do believe that every life deserves the chance to have a go at it for themselves, even if that chance might be against the odds of 'being good'.

Do you mean just human life or all life?

[superman]

I love this debate.
I brings out all the lovelys who think that teenagers know what the fuck they are doing.
They are teenagers - they will do the dumbest stuff possible, they are chemically imbalanced in the brain like an insane person.

So giving them some form of exit clause isnt a bad idea

What a bunch of crap, what teenager is insane that wasn't before puberty? The only thing the chemical imbalance does is make you horny as fuck, or angry as fuck. There's no sudden change in morality. You don't all of a sudden think it's perfectly fine to rape that chick because of how horny you are...

Do you even remember being a teenager? Were you really that much of a knob you think you were crazy?

The facts are the facts, you make up your own mind if that is an acceptable form of killing a human being. And you are suggesting that humans are no more than animals to be killed for convenience? Would you like that kind of death for yourself, at someone else's convenience?

Have you seen the uproar over how animals are killed and the need to do so in the most "humane" way possible? Animals are killed for food nad when done so is done as humanley as possible by law. Try getting the abortion methods approved for the death of animals and see how far you get. You don't care that people are murdered in the most inhumane way possible?

I don't personally like that they do it after 4 weeks. But apparently that's too early for some people, it doesn't take that long to work out you're pregnant. But I do believe that a girl deserves a chance at life she chooses, be it if she was stupid enough/unlucky enough to get pregnant, and especially if she's had no say in getting pregnant and been raped.

[Edbear]

I don't personally like that they do it after 4 weeks. But apparently that's too early for some people, it doesn't take that long to work out you're pregnant. But I do believe that a girl deserves a chance at life she chooses, be it if she was stupid enough/unlucky enough to get pregnant, and especially if she's had no say in getting pregnant and been raped.

Regardless of the reason for pregnancy the fact of the matter is that abortion is the inhumane and cruel killing of a human being. It is murder by definition but legal under the law. Not only is the act of murder legal the barbaric method is legal, whereas it would be illegal for a born human. The other anomoly I pointed out is that the definition of murder seems to be dependent upon whether the unborn child is wanted or unwanted.

What is the difference between delivering a baby by ceasarian section and killing it, making it legal because it's not wanted, or delivering the same baby and killing it when it is wanted? Only one is counted as murder under the law.

[Ender EnZed]

The facts are the facts,

And the document you attached reads like a church flyer. Probably because it is.

And you are suggesting that humans are no more than animals to be killed for convenience?

No.

Have you seen the uproar over how animals are killed and the need to do so in the most "humane" way possible? Animals are killed for food nad when done so is done as humanley as possible by law. Try getting the abortion methods approved for the death of animals and see how far you get. You don't care that people are murdered in the most inhumane way possible?

I see not many people have ever stopped eating meat due to concerns for the well being of the animals. And if you believe that the animals you eat are killed "humanely" then I would suggest that you either don't have a clue what goes on or you hold a very odd definition of humane.

The law definitely does NOT require animals to be killed "as humanely as possible".

[superman]

Regardless of the reason for pregnancy the fact of the matter is that abortion is the inhumane and cruel killing of a human being. It is murder by definition but legal under the law. Not only is the act of murder legal the barbaric method is legal, whereas it would be illegal for a born human. The other anomoly I pointed out is that the definition of murder seems to be dependent upon whether the unborn child is wanted or unwanted.

What is the difference between delivering a baby by ceasarian section and killing it, making it legal because it's not wanted, or delivering the same baby and killing it when it is wanted? Only one is counted as murder under the law.

The organs have not even started to develop at 4 weeks. That is the point where they begin to grow. At 4 weeks it is the size of a poppy seed. No matter how I think of it, at that point it's not disgusting or inhumane in anyway. It can be killed by a drug. It has no mental capacity whatsoever. It is growing like a plant and that's all, it has all the things necessary to start turning into human life, but it in no way resembles human life at this point.

[PrincessBandit]

This is one situation where parents can get a really raw deal when it comes to something as lifechanging as this. I understand that some kids would be shit scared to confide to their parents that not only are they having sex, but that there's a baby on the way as well.
What is tragic is that these unplanned babes are seen as disposable inconveniences (either girl was drunk and "didn't know what I was doing" - I have long long ago written that off as a pathetic excuse for any sort of unacceptable behaviour; or "I'm not mature enough to deal with a baby, but I'm mature enough to enjoy sex despite knowing the potential consequences").

It really does my head in thinking about the fact that, sure a girl might say "it's my body and I'll do with it (and it's contents) as I please", while thinking that they're the be-all-and-end-all in the world. What about the bloke? (he had some part in the preceding events...), what about the girl's parents who will be losing a grandchild to this process?

I'm completely gobsmacked that a school, the girls friends and God knows who else she tells can be aware of this and her own parents don't have any "right to know".

[Ender EnZed]

Regardless of the reason for pregnancy the fact of the matter is that abortion is the inhumane and cruel killing of a human being. It is murder by definition

Do you consider a human embryo to be a human being? Where do you draw the line?

[superman]

Do you consider a human embryo to be a human being? Where do you draw the line?

He draws it at conception. IE morning after pill is morally unacceptable. For we are knitted together in our mothers womb by God himself. (like the bible reference Ed? Thought you might. )

[Edbear]

And the document you attached reads like a church flyer. Probably because it is.

I see not many people have ever stopped eating meat due to concerns for the well being of the animals. And if you believe that the animals you eat are killed "humanely" then I would suggest that you either don't have a clue what goes on or you hold a very odd definition of humane.

The law definitely does NOT require animals to be killed "as humanely as possible".

What have animals got to do with it? As I said, you seem to think that human beings are disposable and can be despatched as cruelly as you like because they are not wanted.

As for being a church flyer, can't you use Google and find out for yourself? Why do people insist on shooting the messenger when they don't like the message? Doesn't do you any favours to deny the facts just because the form they are presented in doesn't appeal to you.

The organs have not even started to develop at 4 weeks. That is the point where they begin to grow. At 4 weeks it is the size of a poppy seed. No matter how I think of it, at that point it's not disgusting or inhumane in anyway. It can be killed by a drug. It has no mental capacity whatsoever. It is growing like a plant and that's all, it has all the things necessary to start turning into human life, but it in no way resembles human life at this point.

And how many abortions are performed at less than four weeks?

Do you consider a human embryo to be a human being? Where do you draw the line?

He draws it at conception. IE morning after pill is morally unacceptable. For we are knitted together in our mothers womb by God himself. (like the bible reference Ed? Thought you might. )

You know, for someone who likes to think he's smart you can be really dumb sometimes.

Go back and read the facts of the way abortions are performed and you tell me how it makes you feel.

[Edbear]

Do you consider a human embryo to be a human being? Where do you draw the line?

Like, what else is it..? You too, read the facts again and tell us how it makes you feel.

[superman]

It really does my head in thinking about the fact that, sure a girl might say "it's my body and I'll do with it (and it's contents) as I please", while thinking that they're the be-all-and-end-all in the world. What about the bloke? (he had some part in the preceding events...), what about the girl's parents who will be losing a grandchild to this process?

I'm completely gobsmacked that a school, the girls friends and God knows who else she tells can be aware of this and her own parents don't have any "right to know".

No, no, no. If I knocked a chick up I would go with her decision no matter what it was and whether it was what I wanted. Her body, her rights. As far as the girl's parents are concerned they should be also willing to support their daughters decision.

It should be up to her who she tells, her responsibility. Not a requirement of law.

"Losing a grandchild", well if you're catholic you're losing a grandchild every time the kid takes part in protected sex. So that's completely opinionated on the parents beliefs, and therefore should be the daughters decision not the parents.

And how many abortions are performed at less than four weeks?

Not enough of the proportion. As said, I find it disgusting that they can do it at 20 weeks. If however there is no brain activity whatsoever. I'm happy Just like a plant has no brain activity, therefore no matter what the method is, if there's no brain activity it's not inhumane. For it is a growing biological being, without the capacity to think.

[Ender EnZed]

What have animals got to do with it?

Humans are animals too.

As for being a church flyer, can't you use Google and find out for yourself? Why do people insist on shooting the messenger when they don't like the message? Doesn't do you any favours to deny the facts just because the form they are presented in doesn't appeal to you.

If your position is ultimately supported by religious beliefs rather than moral then any discussion of the latter isn't going to get far. However I won't raise it again.

And how many abortions are performed at less than four weeks?

The majority of abortions are performed during the embryonic stage of development. This is up to week 8.

Like, what else is it..?

So you're completely opposed to stem cell research and all the benefits it may hold if it has involved human embryos?

You too, read the facts again and tell us how it makes you feel.

How do you feel about the morning after pill?