The welfare state

[mashman]

I was pointing out that despite their intelligence so many don't aspire to do any more than their parents, they never realise there IS more/they could do more - which is maybe all that they want to do.

And if that's all they want to do?

[short-circuit]

Oooook, gotcha.

@ I wants... pot kettle black much ...

I condone it in the context of a free NZ ... as far as our current setup is concerned... it doesn't bother me. Some people will be lazy (in economic terms, it's a prerequisite for keeping inflation down which cracks me the fuck up ... status quo much?), I refuse to let that get under my skin... Funny thing is, they're no more lazy than the kid born into a family that has sound investments and does nothing and has done nothing for a living since they were born... but that's ok, they're not taking your money , not a cent .

@ crime... in the context of a free NZ it wouldn't matter... there wouldn't be any cash flow, just time and required energy for the country (something you could share amongst millions of unemployed people at an hour a day or somefink ). I don't condone ripping people off at all, what they're doing is wholly legal and you ain't gonna change that because it's a vote loser , i love it, bloody funny... also the financial and environmental damage caused by the guys at the bottom pales into significance compared to those up top. The state of humanity and the planet are testament to that.

You forgot the FREE bit BtB... nothing about leaving things the way they are at all

You definately got that last bit arse about face and hell ...

Emoticons are gay

[racefactory]

So... a quick summary of this now 23 pages of bullshit would be: We're all dole bludgers but there are no jobs anyway supposing we might want to get off our arses suddenly.

[BoristheBiter]

Oooook, gotcha.

@ I wants... pot kettle black much ...

not really I want for nothing

I condone it in the context of a free NZ ... as far as our current setup is concerned... it doesn't bother me. Some people will be lazy (in economic terms, it's a prerequisite for keeping inflation down which cracks me the fuck up ... status quo much?), I refuse to let that get under my skin... Funny thing is, they're no more lazy than the kid born into a family that has sound investments and does nothing and has done nothing for a living since they were born... but that's ok, they're not taking your money , not a cent .

The difference is with a wealthy family the family has to stump up with the cash, beneficiary's use someone else's cash. I don't mind people being lazy just not while others are hard at work

@ crime... in the context of a free NZ it wouldn't matter... there wouldn't be any cash flow, just time and required energy for the country (something you could share amongst millions of unemployed people at an hour a day or somefink ). I don't condone ripping people off at all, what they're doing is wholly legal and you ain't gonna change that because it's a vote loser , i love it, bloody funny... also the financial and environmental damage caused by the guys at the bottom pales into significance compared to those up top. The state of humanity and the planet are testament to that.

You forgot the FREE bit BtB... nothing about leaving things the way they are at all

Now that's really using your head NOT

You definately got that last bit arse about face and hell ...
have no idea what you mean here.

I have no problem with giving someone a hand up, I object to giving someone a handout.

[scumdog]

And if that's all they want to do?

Hell, no problem.

But there's more to life than sitting around, quaffing lagers and 'hanging off the Queens tit'.

Apparently

But first you have to realise it - then make your choice.

[Elysium]

Oh good gods
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5135...-to-households
"The possibility of benefit fraud is being investigated following a report that shows some households appear to be receiving more than $100,000 a year in welfare payments, with one getting over $220,000.

A report obtained under the Official Information Act by the New Zealand Herald shows 24 households, made up of between seven and 18 people, are getting more than $2000 a week.

One Papatoetoe household, which lists three children and 11 adults as its occupants, was shown to get $4302.90 each week - amounting to about $224,000 per year.

A note with the report said it was likely some of the people listed in the households no longer lived at the houses, and Social Development Minister Paula Bennett said the ministry was contacting each adult to check the details.

"We would want to make sure they have been honest in their reporting to us and not getting over-payments," she said.

Among the concerns was the potential double-dipping on accommodation supplements, and the safety of children in the potentially overcrowded homes.

The ministry is expected to report back on the investigation later this month. "

[mashman]

Emoticons are gay

OH SHIT, maybe it is genetic , but I do find the whole money farce comedic at times (you gotta laugh, else...)

I have no problem with giving someone a hand up, I object to giving someone a handout.

What about a hand job : :hugs: There are instances where I will think that too

And that is fair enough. I can't do that to people if it's a Money v Human Life situation... (both of which you can lose in the blink of an eye BTW ). Where money is a factor, there are no rules or laws, not truly. If there are, they're there to protect finance and property.

It's as easy as this. We print money... yet it's supply is "controlled"??? and money is touted to be the answer??? and this from a society that has rocketed itself into space in the last 50ish years??? Human devistation in the pursuit of money. Outfuckinstanding... that's pretty much where I'm coming from. Sometimes I find it funny .

[mashman]

Hell, no problem.

But there's more to life than sitting around, quaffing lagers and 'hanging off the Queens tit'.

Apparently

But first you have to realise it - then make your choice.

heh... don't knocker it til you've tried it?

I agree there is more to life (football, pub, women, pub). They have very few decisions to make in life in comparison to others it would seem, much easier situation to have to deal with. If people wanna buy stuff, they get jobs etc... if they don't, they find ways to get stuff if they want it etc... (pssst, removing money would get around petty crime). Wonder if that would have an influence on how much crime a police type person would have to deal on any given day?

Some people make a lot of "wrong" choices... I'm guilty of a few.

[BoristheBiter]

heh... don't knocker it til you've tried it?

I agree there is more to life (football, pub, women, pub). They have very few decisions to make in life in comparison to others it would seem, much easier situation to have to deal with. If people wanna buy stuff, they get jobs etc... if they don't, they find ways to get stuff if they want it etc... (pssst, removing money would get around petty crime). Wonder if that would have an influence on how much crime a police type person would have to deal on any given day?

Some people make a lot of "wrong" choices... I'm guilty of a few.

I would say that a lot of petty crime is due to drugs coming from the inability to find things to do during the day.

[BoristheBiter]

OH SHIT, maybe it is genetic , but I do find the whole money farce comedic at times (you gotta laugh, else...)



What about a hand job : :hugs: There are instances where I will think that too

And that is fair enough. I can't do that to people if it's a Money v Human Life situation... (both of which you can lose in the blink of an eye BTW ). Where money is a factor, there are no rules or laws, not truly. If there are, they're there to protect finance and property.

It's as easy as this. We print money... yet it's supply is "controlled"??? and money is touted to be the answer??? and this from a society that has rocketed itself into space in the last 50ish years??? Human devistation in the pursuit of money. Outfuckinstanding... that's pretty much where I'm coming from. Sometimes I find it funny .

(Missed the multi-quote)

If you want to give someone a hand job then by all means go right ahead, what you do in the privacy of your home, or back alley, is your business.

I have never seen anywhere that touted money as the answer, self compliance is the answer.

[FJRider]

Hang on a sec, within the Tax I pay isnt there a component that is attributed towards retirement/ namely my retirement? yes would be the answer to that so on the basis of what youre saying I want one of two things
1/ the pension
or
2/ a refund of all that which I have paid, and a deduction of tax !!

fucking government would love to take the same yeild while reducing its services, fuck them I want what I pay for and demand it!

Your tax goes into the big pot from which all the state welfare is paid ... and everything else too .. Treasury ...

As for refund and/or deduction in taxes ... He DID say productive members of society ...

[rainman]

So... a quick summary of this now 23 pages of bullshit would be: We're all dole bludgers but there are no jobs anyway supposing we might want to get off our arses suddenly.

Yup.

Oh good gods
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5135...-to-households
"The possibility of benefit fraud is being investigated following a report that shows some households appear to be receiving more than $100,000 a year in welfare payments, with one getting over $220,000.

So why is it so fucking hard to sort this shit out? Think about it, if you were given oversight of WINZ how long would it take to find the gratuitous crooks and come up with a suitably targeted solution to weed out the top N worst offenders? Labour can't or won't do it, looks like National can't or won't either. I'm first to say that really fixing welfare is almost impossible, but finding the biggest fraud issues should be easy, and wildly popular to boot. Surely? I mean, I hate the bene bashing that goes on here and elsewhere, but the genuinely fraudulent need to get a kingsize can of arsekickery. (I just think they are the minority of bene's, unlike those of you who believe they are 100%),

I was going to say a coupla hours with some well-targeted SQL queries against their database would turn up some useful insights... but then I realised how primitive WINZ IT is (at least from the "customer" end...). Maybe it's all stored on 3x5 filing cards or something...

Grrr. My tolerance for useless politicians is at an all time low.

[Quasievil]

Yup.



So why is it so fucking hard to sort this shit out?

Because we all vote, thats why a dictatorship is the way to go

[Ocean1]

So why is it so fucking hard to sort this shit out?.

Watch closely...

"We would want to make sure they have been honest in their reporting to us"

They're relying on honest self-reporting.

Yeah, that orta do it.

[rainman]

Because we all vote, thats why a dictatorship is the way to go

But seriously, most people, even if they vary widely in their philosophical orientation towards welfare, would vote against blatant fraud and crookery. This is just government incompetence, over successive governments....